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  #1  
Old 02-11-2015, 10:47 AM
Cheftunes Cheftunes is offline
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Default Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

Dear fellow Drummers,

i am right now in the middle of working may way through Stick Control (again).
All went smooth so far but the 6/8 Short Rolls starting from Page 25 Exercise 13 are driving me Crazy.

For everyone who has not the Notes at hand it is notated like this:

An Eighthsnote- Triplet follwed by an 8 Stroke Roll notated in Sixteenth.
And all of that in a 6/8 Bar.

So i tried to play it like this:

Handle the 6/8 Bar like a 2/4 Bar and play the Eighthnote Triplet in normal speed, then treat the 8 Stroke Roll like 32th so they fit on the second Quarter.

But in this case the second Quarter of the 2/4 Beat would start with the third Note of the 8 Stroke Roll.

I hope this is in any way understandable.

To sum it up: i am stuck and i dont know if i am doing this right.
Therefore Help would be awesome!

Best wishes in advance!
André
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:08 PM
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Alain Rieder Alain Rieder is offline
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Default Re: Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheftunes View Post
An Eighthsnote- Triplet follwed by an 8 Stroke Roll notated in Sixteenth.
And all of that in a 6/8 Bar.
The first beat is not an 8th note triplet, but just three regular 8th notes in 6/8
Then the second beat is an octuplet (eight 16th instead of six)
The octuplet could also be notated as eight dotted 32nd notes, which is really what it is, if that helps ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheftunes View Post
Handle the 6/8 Bar like a 2/4 Bar and play the Eighthnote Triplet in normal speed, then treat the 8 Stroke Roll like 32th so they fit on the second Quarter.

But in this case the second Quarter of the 2/4 Beat would start with the third Note of the 8 Stroke Roll.
If you transfer to 2/4, the first beat should be an 8th note triplet, and the second beat is eight 32nd notes (with the first note starting on the beat, by the way).
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Old 02-11-2015, 07:26 PM
Cheftunes Cheftunes is offline
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Default Re: Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

Hey Alain!

Thanks for your time and effort, really appreciate it! :)

That "Octuplet" Hint totally makes sense! I will check this out right now.

Thanks again.

Best wishes,
André
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  #4  
Old 10-15-2015, 11:37 AM
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Hewitt2 Hewitt2 is offline
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Default Re: Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alain Rieder View Post
The first beat is not an 8th note triplet, but just three regular 8th notes in 6/8
Then the second beat is an octuplet (eight 16th instead of six)
The octuplet could also be notated as eight dotted 32nd notes, which is really what it is, if that helps ;-)



If you transfer to 2/4, the first beat should be an 8th note triplet, and the second beat is eight 32nd notes (with the first note starting on the beat, by the way).
I'm reviving this thread as I ran into the same obstacle not too long ago and did what Mr. Rieder suggests, which is essentially to treat the first set of three notes as an eight note triplet and the groupings of eight as 32nd notes. Which would give give me 2 beats on each side.

My question is: am I not treating this as 4/4? The exercise calls for the lines to be played as 6/8. Does anyone play it in the recommended time signature? Even for page 24 I play it much like page 25 with two beats on each side. Does anyone count these out in 6/8 and if not, what is the significance of this time signature, when counting it in 4 appears to get you to the same place?

Thanks for your help
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Old 10-15-2015, 02:00 PM
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Alain Rieder Alain Rieder is offline
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Default Re: Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

Not sure what you mean, but 6/8 is a two-beat time signature (as 2/4 is) and 12/8 is a four-beat time signature (as 4/4 is).
So if you're wondering if you could take two bars of 6/8 and play them as one bar of 12/8, I would say it is quite the same, yes.
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Old 10-15-2015, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alain Rieder View Post
Not sure what you mean, but 6/8 is a two-beat time signature (as 2/4 is) and 12/8 is a four-beat time signature (as 4/4 is).
So if you're wondering if you could take two bars of 6/8 and play them as one bar of 12/8, I would say it is quite the same, yes.
Thanks for the response. I suppose my question was more theoretical: what is the value of listing these exercises in a 6/8 time signature? Reading it as 2/4 seems to be how most approach these pages...
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Old 10-15-2015, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

6/8 is often counted in two, just like a 12/8 shuffle is "sort of in 4". You'll see this all the time in all sorts of music. You count 2 pulses and maybe feel it that way, a lot of the time, but the music is 6/8. This is all it takes to make something feel completely different. Think of a samba in 4/4 or 2/2. Not the same thing at all. Same with marches, which often are 6/8 btw.
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Old 10-15-2015, 06:14 PM
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ronyd ronyd is offline
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Default Re: Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

see boomka's answer to this also:
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...d.php?t=124742

after reading boomka's reply, now makes sense. I was always thinking the you have to line up everything to the 1/8th note (in the case of 6/8). but since 2nd beat of the measure is Octuplet, you can't (daahhh), so you just evenly space out the 2 e + a. Why I never can figure this stuff out on my own always baffles me...


good job to everyone with your explanations. always good to analyze and more importantly understand everyone's approach. Always a journey....
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitt2 View Post
Thanks for the response. I suppose my question was more theoretical: what is the value of listing these exercises in a 6/8 time signature? Reading it as 2/4 seems to be how most approach these pages...

The whole section is in 6/8.

I understand that you don't really get the difference between 6/8 and 2/4.

Both time signatures have two beats per measure, so this is how close they are, but they are different in essence.




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Old 10-16-2015, 01:19 AM
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Default Re: Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alain Rieder View Post
The whole section is in 6/8.

I understand that you don't really get the difference between 6/8 and 2/4.

Both time signatures have two beats per measure, so this is how close they are, but they are different in essence.




.
Ok thanks - are there any songs that are in 6/8? Maybe that will help me internalize the difference better.
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  #11  
Old 10-16-2015, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewitt2 View Post
Ok thanks - are there any songs that are in 6/8? Maybe that will help me internalize the difference better.
Yes there are many songs in 6/8 or 12/8 (two bars of 6/8 are more or less the same as one bar of 12/8).

Two examples of songs you probably know:
When A Man Loves A Woman
Since I've been Loving You


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  #12  
Old 09-13-2017, 06:58 PM
4815162342 4815162342 is offline
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Default Re: Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

Just do the math:
you have to fit 8 notes in the space of 6 (16th notes in 6/8), so take the least common multiple which is 24, now divide it into 24 notes, and 24/6 = 4, so you play 24 64th notes in 6/8, and then to feel the 8, you just accent every 24/8 = 3rd note. That's how you get dotted 32nds which equals 3 64ths.

Incidentally, I think the magic of 6/8 is that 6 is divisible by 2 and 3, so you can get a 2 beat triplet feel, or a 3 beat straight 8th feel out of it.
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Old 01-07-2018, 08:30 PM
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RLRR-LRLL RLRR-LRLL is offline
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Default Re: Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

Well I've read all the responses and still don't get it.
Can anyone just make short video and post of what exercise 13 of page 25 stick control should sound like? Thanks
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:49 PM
Ghostin one Ghostin one is offline
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Default Re: Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

RLRR, it will "sound" an awful lot like every other exercise on the page at faster tempos, and the pages before and after - as you know, the book is sticking exercises but many will sound the same or nearly so.

Someone has uploaded the next page (26) on yutube; I hope this helps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7jNFENiFCc
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: Stick Control Page 25 Exercise 13 Roadblock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostin one View Post
RLRR, it will "sound" an awful lot like every other exercise on the page at faster tempos, and the pages before and after - as you know, the book is sticking exercises but many will sound the same or nearly so.

Someone has uploaded the next page (26) on yutube; I hope this helps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7jNFENiFCc
Yeah thanks. That helps with those for sure. Which was sure to be my next query. 😊
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