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  #1  
Old 01-18-2017, 06:01 PM
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larryace larryace is offline
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Default Ear training

This kid has perfect pitch. It's a minute 27, check it out. He's fairly awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Cb1qwCUvI

It kind of stimulated a thought process in me as a drummer.

Wouldn't it be a really cool skill to be able to know the BPM of a song or metronome with our eyes closed? Like you can't look at the second hand of a clock for instance, that would be cheating. I imagine it to be an equivalent skill of perfect pitch.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 01-18-2017, 07:50 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: Ear training

I remember Bermuda had some good suggestions for recalling tempos mnemonically-- like, certain songs you've heard 10,000 times, you know their tempo. All you have to do know the number and memorize it. To that end I posted tempos for a bunch of Stones songs before.
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  #3  
Old 01-18-2017, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
I remember Bermuda had some good suggestions for recalling tempos mnemonically-- like, certain songs you've heard 10,000 times, you know their tempo. All you have to do know the number and memorize it. To that end I posted tempos for a bunch of Stones songs before.
I kind of forgot about that trick. Hey it achieves the same end. But I was more referring to a 6th sense for knowing...without comparing to anything...the bpm of a tune, just like this kid can tell you only by hearing exactly what note it is.

Like if I asked you to play singles on a pad... what you think is 60 BPM...1 hit per second....without a met....I bet you could come pretty close. But at 92? I don't know if that would be as easy. Again, without comparing to a song or a second hand on a clock. I wonder how close the average bear would come, I never tried it.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
I remember Bermuda had some good suggestions for recalling tempos mnemonically-- like, certain songs you've heard 10,000 times, you know their tempo. All you have to do know the number and memorize it. To that end I posted tempos for a bunch of Stones songs before.
!%$!^&! Feel like an idiot that I missed that list before. Now THAT is handy! I should have that list tattooed on my forearm.
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  #5  
Old 01-19-2017, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

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!%$!^&! Feel like an idiot that I missed that list before. Now THAT is handy! I should have that list tattooed on my forearm.
I can sell you a less permanent equivalent for a reduced price.
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  #6  
Old 01-19-2017, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

Since I have upped my recording schedule (at home, not professionally), I have found that I've become a pretty good judge of a tempo, simply from playing a guitar or piano riff and then trying to work out the tempo thereafter.

120bpm will always be 1 one-thousand, 2 Mississippi etc

Everything else has just got better as I have written more songs, apart from my guitar playing :-)
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I can sell you a less permanent equivalent for a reduced price.
Might have to take you up on that. Described my idea to my girl, and for some reason she thinks it's 'moronic'. Chicks!
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  #8  
Old 01-19-2017, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

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Originally Posted by philrudd View Post
!%$!^&! Feel like an idiot that I missed that list before. Now THAT is handy! I should have that list tattooed on my forearm.
Working on a list of Beatles tunes... I'll post that when it's done...

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Like if I asked you to play singles on a pad... what you think is 60 BPM...1 hit per second....without a met....I bet you could come pretty close. But at 92? I don't know if that would be as easy. Again, without comparing to a song or a second hand on a clock. I wonder how close the average bear would come, I never tried it.
If you did a quarter note triplet rhythm off of 60 bpm you could come pretty close to 92 bpm; Octopus's Garden is also 92. But also you only learned what 60 bpm sounds like from listening to a clock, so it's not really a different thing than just basing it on a song.
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Old 01-20-2017, 02:09 AM
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Default Re: Ear training

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Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
Working on a list of Beatles tunes... I'll post that when it's done...



If you did a quarter note triplet rhythm off of 60 bpm you could come pretty close to 92 bpm; Octopus's Garden is also 92. But also you only learned what 60 bpm sounds like from listening to a clock, so it's not really a different thing than just basing it on a song.
Fair dinkum Todd. I like your triplet idea! Actual songs probably work better.
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Old 01-20-2017, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: Ear training

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Originally Posted by philrudd View Post
!%$!^&! Feel like an idiot that I missed that list before. Now THAT is handy! I should have that list tattooed on my forearm.
Get a wrist band type thing that quarterbacks wear with plays on it.
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  #11  
Old 01-21-2017, 01:20 AM
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Default Re: Ear training

Livebpm app is a god send to help train you
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  #12  
Old 01-21-2017, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

Am I the only drummer who took Music Theory 101? People (not this one) can play the tempo noted on sheet music within one or two bpm. I've played a song with my theory teacher that he had never heard before. He started playing it on piano and I impromptu joined in. When I asked how he knew the tempo having never heard the song his answer was simple, "practice". How did you think all the music, that is hundreds of years old, managed to survive in its original, intended form to reach the recording era? Do you think Beethoven's Fifth is played faster or slower now, than originally?

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  #13  
Old 01-21-2017, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Wouldn't it be a really cool skill to be able to know the BPM of a song or metronome with our eyes closed? Like you can't look at the second hand of a clock for instance, that would be cheating. I imagine it to be an equivalent skill of perfect pitch.

Thoughts?
I think having perfect pitch is far more useful than perfect bpm (or whatever you may want to call it :) ), because if a band is jamming and you're joining with a melodical instrument, perfect pitch is going to help you find keys, harmonies etc (although a great relative pitch quite suffices as well IMO), while it doesn't matter at all if a drummer "hears the bpm" - he's gonna be able to join them perfectly without having to have a clue about it.

Wow, that was a long sentence...
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Old 01-21-2017, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

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Originally Posted by Swiss Matthias View Post
I think having perfect pitch is far more useful than perfect bpm (or whatever you may want to call it :) ), because if a band is jamming and you're joining with a melodical instrument, perfect pitch is going to help you find keys, harmonies etc (although a great relative pitch quite suffices as well IMO), while it doesn't matter at all if a drummer "hears the bpm" - he's gonna be able to join them perfectly without having to have a clue about it.

Wow, that was a long sentence...
I would rather have perfect tick. Perfect pitch doesn't work outside of very specific situations. What if you end up crossing the Atlantic, or playing a raga.
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  #15  
Old 01-21-2017, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

I wouldn't want it either.
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  #16  
Old 01-22-2017, 12:00 AM
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Default Re: Ear training

Here are those Beatles tempos. Good list to memorize...
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Old 01-22-2017, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: Ear training

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Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
Here are those Beatles tempos. Good list to memorize...
Thanks! I'm more familiar with the Beatles songs than the Stones so this is very Help!ful. :P
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Old 01-22-2017, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: Ear training

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
This kid has perfect pitch. It's a minute 27, check it out. He's fairly awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyIquE0izAg

It kind of stimulated a thought process in me as a drummer.

Wouldn't it be a really cool skill to be able to know the BPM of a song or metronome with our eyes closed? Like you can't look at the second hand of a clock for instance, that would be cheating. I imagine it to be an equivalent skill of perfect pitch.

Thoughts?
It's a cool idea, and I think it would actually be easier to do it for tempo than pitch, but only if we were able to limit it to just 12 tempi (the way the chromatic scale is limited to just 12 pitches).

By the way, I think you posted the wrong link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The SunDog View Post
How did you think all the music, that is hundreds of years old, managed to survive in its original, intended form to reach the recording era? Do you think Beethoven's Fifth is played faster or slower now, than originally?
Modern conductors are always arguing about the tempo of Beethoven pieces, some of his markings seem impossible and we really have no idea how accurate his metronome was. As I understand it, there's only a small minority of conductors who insist on sticking rigidly to the written tempo.

Last edited by Headbanger; 01-22-2017 at 01:28 AM. Reason: More to add
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  #19  
Old 01-22-2017, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: Ear training

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Originally Posted by Headbanger View Post

By the way, I think you posted the wrong link.

I fixed it, thanks, duh. That means no one has seen this kid. You really need to see this kid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Cb1qwCUvI
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Old 01-22-2017, 12:06 PM
BranoFabry BranoFabry is offline
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Default Re: Ear training

I believe the sense of close to perfect time is achievable by practicing right focused meditations regularly.
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  #21  
Old 01-22-2017, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

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Modern conductors are always arguing about the tempo of Beethoven pieces, some of his markings seem impossible and we really have no idea how accurate his metronome was. As I understand it, there's only a small minority of conductors who insist on sticking rigidly to the written tempo.
Ugh. Did I pick the wrong piece to prove my point? How about Nachtmusik then? Does that make you feel better? The fact is tempo is a learned skill. If you doubt that then I'll have to call you a fool. Please don't make me call you a fool. Larry is a nice guy who lacks a life and so he finds some kind of peace in starting these conversations. This one has an answer, regardless of who knew it. Tempo/BPM is a skill that people have possessed for many hundreds of years.
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  #22  
Old 01-23-2017, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

Lol Sunny D. Nail on head ha ha.
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:25 AM
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Default Re: Ear training

Steve Gadd has that ability. I can't exactly remember the anecdote but Steve Gadd was briefing Chad Wackerman for the James Taylor gig. He mentioned a tune that needed to stay at 108bpm because if it crept up to 109 then one of the musicians would have trouble playing their lines cleanly.

I understand that CW was a tad gobsmacked. I would have just turned and walked away :)

If I recalled anything wrongly by all means tidy the tale up :)
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:43 AM
Stitch Kaboodle Stitch Kaboodle is offline
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Default Re: Ear training

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Steve Gadd has that ability. I can't exactly remember the anecdote but Steve Gadd was briefing Chad Wackerman for the James Taylor gig. He mentioned a tune that needed to stay at 108bpm because if it crept up to 109 then one of the musicians would have trouble playing their lines cleanly.

I understand that CW was a tad gobsmacked. I would have just turned and walked away :)

If I recalled anything wrongly by all means tidy the tale up :)
That sounds like Gadd was making a joke about one of the players.

I think Jack Bruce claimed to have perfect tempo. Bit of a bizarre one but there you go.

The thing about learning tempos beforehand is it's nothing new. You might have heard and played a song 100 times but scenarios and sound mixes make the difference.

Listen to a song without bass, it sounds slower.

With bass it sounds more powerful, fuller and faster.

So lists will only get you so far.
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Old 01-24-2017, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

I don't think there is thing as "perfect rhythm". You can have perfect pitch becuse pitch is discerned by the use of a map in the auditory cortex with cells that respond to different frequencies... there is a biological structure that allows perfect pitch, and while most of us can only be aware of the processed information (i.e. how the pitches compare to each other) it is possible to gain access the the raw info.

The brain, on the other hand, doesn't have a metronome. (At least, 50 years of researchers have all come up empty-handed looking for the brain's metronome. It would be a major coup to find it) The alternate view of rhythm (the one I believe) is that rhythm is by nature relative, the product of the way the brain works. In other words, rhythm is a state, not a thing. The only way to remember rhythm accurately is to accurately re-create the state of mind ... i.e. song a song with a known tempo count to yourself, sync up to the song in your head and take it from there.

This process is itself a form of meditation, as meditation practice is really just practice thinking in a certain way. So meditation practice would really help a lot.

Quote:
Modern conductors are always arguing about the tempo of Beethoven pieces, some of his markings seem impossible and we really have no idea how accurate his metronome was. As I understand it, there's only a small minority of conductors who insist on sticking rigidly to the written tempo.
This is unique to Beethoven because Beethoven's tempos are very hard to play at. Not physically, but mentally challenging. Not many do this to Chopin unless they just can't play that fast ... or want to show off their chops! Otherwise it is "the composer says jump, so I ask how high"

Last edited by John Lamb; 01-25-2017 at 06:28 PM.
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  #26  
Old 01-24-2017, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Lol Sunny D. Nail on head ha ha.
Sunny D is a great nick for that ornery fellow. I especially like the sarcasm implied.
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Old 01-26-2017, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

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Originally Posted by toddbishop View Post
Here are those Beatles tempos. Good list to memorize...
Hot damn! Thanks!

Despite the stigma that will doubtless result from this admission, I do not have innately perfect tempo recognition. (Hell, if I down an energy drink too fast, everything starts feeling slow...)

These kind of lists may not help the true, devoted, musically erudite and learned drummers among us...but for a regular guy like me they're brilliant.

Thanks again, Todd.
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Old 01-26-2017, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

Bermuda's tip has helped me. I tend to focus on 60 and 120 the most and make adjustments from there. But taking a few seconds to start the song in my head along with a nod to 60-120 gets me pretty close. Though I still have a tendency to play a little too fast.
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  #29  
Old 01-26-2017, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: Ear training

It's funny that you post Rick Beato's example for ear training, because in university, one of our classes "Perception/Hearing". Our teacher has been in contact with Mr. Beato, and has decided to use his exercises "7 days to a perfect ear", as a reference for method of training at home. 15 minutes a day.

Needless to say, this is hard work, and requires lots of motivation, especially when you play percussion instruments, and you don't have much of a reference ( I.e piano, guitars ). It's not too hard to recognize basic minor chords, but when you hear something like, C Maj ( Min 7th, Add 9, add 13 ) or First/Second inversions of chords, buckle up, because the red x's come in at an alarming rate.

For those who are curious, here is the link to the 7 day training exercises.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvyk...bimD1jF43pVCJD
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