Rhythm and Meter Patterns Help ...!!!

hi everyone

I'v just started to work on Chaffee's book "RHYTHM AND METER PATTERNS"

A quick question here, and i'd have to say that might be asking alot of them here in the coming weeks.

The question is, on PAGE 16, exercise 7, where I am supposed to play 1 &; 1 E &

Now do i keep my metronome at 16th notes and then play it or should I keep my metronome at the 8th notes? (i personally think i SHOULD be able to use both, but 16th was much easier when i tried)

SECONDLY, while keeping my metronome at 16th (4 subdivisions), the 8th note triplet counting would be something like this (correct me if i'm wrong please):

Hit 1 (1): alongwith 1st note of 16th
Hit 2 (e): in between e and & of the 16th notes
Hit 3 (a): alongwith 'a' of the 16th notes

P.S: Main problem is with hits 2 and 3, i'm not sure if thats right or not !!! thanks in advance

similarly,

when i look at the 5:4 pattern, and try to play it with 16th notes, i would assume to fit the
1 e & a a

into

1 e & a

i need to adjust by moving each note of the 1e&a 25% back, in order to adjust for the extra 'a' in the 5:4 and still play this in the same tempo (the speed would obviously be more due to the addition of an extra note 'a' ? :s right? )

please help me clarify this here, i'd really appreciate it

My advice would be to set the metronome to quarter notes at ALL times. Remove the reliance on the metronome as much as possible and learn to subdivide the quarter consistently on your own.

Good luck!

I second that. I practice single stroke by doing 2 bars each of 1/4, 1/8, trips, and 16th notes and then reverse it, then increasing the BPM until I go as fast as I can without strain. It helps me to be able to switch easily within the same BPM.

arsalanxaidi said:

hi everyone

I'v just started to work on Chaffee's book "RHYTHM AND METER PATTERNS"

A quick question here, and i'd have to say that might be asking alot of them here in the coming weeks.

The question is, on PAGE 16, exercise 7, where I am supposed to play 1 &; 1 E &

Now do i keep my metronome at 16th notes and then play it or should I keep my metronome at the 8th notes? (i personally think i SHOULD be able to use both, but 16th was much easier when i tried)

SECONDLY, while keeping my metronome at 16th (4 subdivisions), the 8th note triplet counting would be something like this (correct me if i'm wrong please):

Hit 1 (1): alongwith 1st note of 16th
Hit 2 (e): in between e and & of the 16th notes
Hit 3 (a): alongwith 'a' of the 16th notes

P.S: Main problem is with hits 2 and 3, i'm not sure if thats right or not !!! thanks in advance

Click to expand...

I'm not sure about your first question -- I don't have the book with me (it's at my teaching studio).

Your second question: your statement is somewhat correct, but not precisely enough to be helpful to you. It's easier and more accurate to think of playing triplets against 16ths as a 4:3 polyrhythm. Consider this rhythm:

1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a (16th notes)

If we only count the down beats (the 1, 2, and 3), we get triplets. This will be the "3" part of our polyrhythm.

1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a

If we only count the 1, a, & (of beat 2), and e (of beat 3), we get 4 evenly spaced notes. These will be the "4" part of our polyrhythm

With your left hand, play the 1, a, &, e; and with your right, play the downbeats. Then, reverse the roles of your hands. Count both parts at first.

1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a

Then, count only the 3 side (while playing both parts). Then, count only the 4 side, but instead of "1, a, &, e", count "1, 2, 3, 4".

Re: your 3rd question: you're incorrect. You'd move the "e" back by 5% (25%=>20%), the "&" back by 10% (50%=>40%), the "a" back by 15% (75%=>60%), and the fifth part will fall at the 80% mark. Each partial is 20% of the quarter note, so the notes will fall on 0, 20, 40, 60, and 80 percent.

However, it probably won't help your playing to think of a 5:4 polyrhythm in this way. If you'd like to know how to do it, PM me.

arsalanxaidi said:

hi everyone

I'v just started to work on Chaffee's book "RHYTHM AND METER PATTERNS"

A quick question here, and i'd have to say that might be asking alot of them here in the coming weeks.

The question is, on PAGE 16, exercise 7, where I am supposed to play 1 &; 1 E &

Click to expand...

We must have different editions of that book, because my p. 16, ex. 7 is two beats of 32nd notes.

Now do i keep my metronome at 16th notes and then play it or should I keep my metronome at the 8th notes? (i personally think i SHOULD be able to use both, but 16th was much easier when i tried)

Click to expand...

I personally never set my metronome to 16th notes in */4 meters-- or any other circumstance I can think of. If you're talking about the section of the book which has combinations of 8ths, 16ths, 32nds, and 3-7tuplets, just set your metronome to quarter notes, and try to play the tuplets evenly.

SECONDLY, while keeping my metronome at 16th (4 subdivisions), the 8th note triplet counting would be something like this (correct me if i'm wrong please):

Hit 1 (1): alongwith 1st note of 16th
Hit 2 (e): in between e and & of the 16th notes
Hit 3 (a): alongwith 'a' of the 16th notes

P.S: Main problem is with hits 2 and 3, i'm not sure if thats right or not !!! thanks in advance

Click to expand...

I think you're making the materials harder than they need to be-- and that book is already hard enough. I don't think you need to develop any tuplet perfectly vs. a 16th note grid.

toddbishop said:

We must have different editions of that book, because my p. 16, ex. 7 is two beats of 32nd notes.



I personally never set my metronome to 16th notes in */4 meters-- or any other circumstance I can think of. If you're talking about the section of the book which has combinations of 8ths, 16ths, 32nds, and 3-7tuplets, just set your metronome to quarter notes, and try to play the tuplets evenly.



I think you're making the materials harder than they need to be-- and that book is already hard enough. I don't think you need to develop any tuplet perfectly vs. a 16th note grid.

Click to expand...

thanks for the response, i tried it today, as a couple of you have said to keep the metronome at the quarter note. so, what i do is just make sure that 8ths, triplets, 16ths etc are played having an equal amount of space in between and i should let my ears decide if they are even or not, right?

and yes, you're right, i was going a bit too deep than i needed to when i was trying to play against the subdivided metronome, but i was just trying to make things perfect. I think the quarter note metronome would help my internal timing a bit more; it is it then

brentcn said:

I'm not sure about your first question -- I don't have the book with me (it's at my teaching studio).

Your second question: your statement is somewhat correct, but not precisely enough to be helpful to you. It's easier and more accurate to think of playing triplets against 16ths as a 4:3 polyrhythm. Consider this rhythm:

1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a (16th notes)

If we only count the down beats (the 1, 2, and 3), we get triplets. This will be the "3" part of our polyrhythm.

1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a

If we only count the 1, a, & (of beat 2), and e (of beat 3), we get 4 evenly spaced notes. These will be the "4" part of our polyrhythm

With your left hand, play the 1, a, &, e; and with your right, play the downbeats. Then, reverse the roles of your hands. Count both parts at first.

1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a

Then, count only the 3 side (while playing both parts). Then, count only the 4 side, but instead of "1, a, &, e", count "1, 2, 3, 4".

Re: your 3rd question: you're incorrect. You'd move the "e" back by 5% (25%=>20%), the "&" back by 10% (50%=>40%), the "a" back by 15% (75%=>60%), and the fifth part will fall at the 80% mark. Each partial is 20% of the quarter note, so the notes will fall on 0, 20, 40, 60, and 80 percent.

However, it probably won't help your playing to think of a 5:4 polyrhythm in this way. If you'd like to know how to do it, PM me.

Click to expand...

Brent, thank you SOO much for this response but honestly, this has confused the hell out of me .

you're talking polyrhythms here and honestly, i haven't quite worked on those before (i hope to start soon though). on another note, am i going wrong with the book ? because right now i have just started off, and i don't think i'm supposed to play polyrhythms, i was just trying to perfect my time according to triplets, 8ths, 16ths, 32nds etc and how to go from one to another. i hope i'm doing it right.

Im thinking i need to keep the metronome at the quarter as others have suggested and do not go into the detail that i have been recently.. ? :s

arsalanxaidi said:

Brent, thank you SOO much for this response but honestly, this has confused the hell out of me .

you're talking polyrhythms here and honestly, i haven't quite worked on those before (i hope to start soon though). on another note, am i going wrong with the book ? because right now i have just started off, and i don't think i'm supposed to play polyrhythms, i was just trying to perfect my time according to triplets, 8ths, 16ths, 32nds etc and how to go from one to another. i hope i'm doing it right.

Im thinking i need to keep the metronome at the quarter as others have suggested and do not go into the detail that i have been recently.. ? :s

Click to expand...

I agree with TB (usually do): playing the polyrhythms isn't all that helpful when learning to perform these exercises. But essentially you asked: "what does it sound like when I play triplets and 16ths at the same time, and what does it sound like when I play quintuplets and 16ths at the same"? The answers are a 4:3 (or 3:4 depending on your perspective) polyrhythm, and a 5:4 polyrhythm.

It's really not that challenging to learn to play the polyrhythms, but it won't be of much help in this particular case.

Assuming you can already play evenly spaced 16ths, there are a few skills you'll need to develop. First, you'll need to learn to play evenly spaced triplets, and relate them to the quarter note. Set your metronome to triplets and do your best to match it. Play a measure of triplets, then a measure of quarter notes, and back to triplets, and so on.

Second, learn to play quintuplets. Set the metronome to play quintuplets, and repeat the above process, training your ears and hands to relate the quintuplet to the quarter note.

Third, spend time shifting between triplets, 16ths, and quintuplets. When switching between subdivisions, it will be difficult to hear, say 16ths from the metronome, and yet be playing triplets or quintuplets (although it's not impossible), so it makes sense to hear only a quarter note from the click when shifting between subdivisions, especially at first. Let it sink in over a few days of regular practice at a variety of tempos.

But the polyrhythmic approach has it's place, and will deepen your understanding.