So and so is a good drummer, but...

Larry

Larry

"Uncle Larry"
...he plays too loud. Or takes too many fills. Or insert whatever disgruntles you here. Have you ever heard this before? I bet you have.

Are people just being respectful when prefacing their dislikes, "he's a good drummer but.."

Or do they really think he's a good drummer despite the glaring faults?

Not sure. It seems like if they were really happy with the person, they wouldn't list grievances.

I overheard a comment where a guy said, so and so's a good drummer, as long as you "dance his dance". I'm not sure if this person likes most of what that drummer does and is annoyed by some things, or if he really doesn't like playing with this person and is being nice. Probably somewhere in the middle. I know that this person tends to give a rock treatment to everything he plays, genre notwithstanding. (JimFiore, did I use notwithstanding in the right context?)

Any thoughts?
 
I've seen it multiple ways.

Sometimes the translation is "They are a good drummer..... and they are better than I am so I have to say something to make me look better because I'm jealous."

Sometimes it is "They are a good drummer.... but man they are big jerks and are full of themselves.... so I can't give them a compliment."

and sometimes it is even "Man they suck, but I gotta say something good.... but man they are so bad I can't just say they are good."

Hard to tell without context or knowing the drummer and the person making the comment.
 
larryace is a good drummer, but he comes up with some strange ideas for forum threads.........

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Actually I do this in my head when I watch other drummers. I'm at jam night and all night long I watch others drummers play my drums. If they are great drummers I just think they are great. No problem, no comment. Very few are great drummers. In the past year I have seen two that were.

If they are just OK drummers I say in my head; "he is good but he plays at only one volume, loud" or "he is a good drummer but he never listens to the other musicians so he misses breaks and endings". etc.

I think it is just the way we all evaluate someone's playing ability. What ever they are playing: drums, guitar, keyboard, singing, violin, etc.........

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If it's generally about critiquing drummers, it's difficult to understand where everybody is coming from because drummers are critiquing other drummers when they don't all ascribe to the same style of music.
This brings up a style opinion that might only be relevant to the original creator of the drum parts.
Everybody has different ways to play music that is in the vein of the style, but some people are innovators and purposefully play around the normal progressional intent of the musical style, and when we pay attention, we see that those people are on top of their understanding of the piece.
 
It's a common thing so we know it's only human to get a bit angsty if you think someone is overrated or you don't agree stylistically but I prefer to keep it to myself. It's too easy to come off like a dick when you make comments like that.
 
If it's generally about critiquing drummers, it's difficult to understand where everybody is coming from because drummers are critiquing other drummers when they don't all ascribe to the same style of music.
This brings up a style opinion that might only be relevant to the original creator of the drum parts.
Everybody has different ways to play music that is in the vein of the style, but some people are innovators and purposefully play around the normal progressional intent of the musical style, and when we pay attention, we see that those people are on top of their understanding of the piece.
 
larryace said:
...he plays too loud. Or takes too many fills. Or insert whatever disgruntles you here. Have you ever heard this before? I bet you have.

Are people just being respectful when prefacing their dislikes, "he's a good drummer but.."

Or do they really think he's a good drummer despite the glaring faults?
Click to expand...

Somebody can be an incredible drummer... but not be a good musician. If Vinnie didn't know when to play 2&4, he'd be a poor musician.

Comments regarding volume, tempo, overplaying (or underplaying) address that difference, whether or not that person is aware they're doing so. When I listen to a drummer, I assess them on both counts. Usually, one or both are strong, but sometimes they don't qualify for either camp (most often with a local live band where a drummer's failings are tolerated more than they are on recordings or pro touring bands.)

The converse is also true, where musicianship outshines the playing.

Bermuda
 
The context I am referring to is musicians who are non drummers making the comment, "he's good but".... I put drummers comments and musician non drummer comments in different classes. The former being more of an "insider" to drums nuts and bolts, and the latter not as much. Comments from non drummers interest me, they are not burdened with the minutia that drummers think of. They just see the whole.
 
Perhaps a non-drummer's comments carry more weight, as their observations are from a perspective of someone who would hire a drummer. Their observations matter more in terms of what a drummer should or shouldn't be doing.

For example, i'm less concerned with what other drummers think of my playing and musicianship, than I am with what guitar, bass and keyboard players think.

Bermuda
 
bermuda said:
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For example, i'm less concerned with what other drummers think of my playing and musicianship, than I am with what guitar, bass and keyboard players think.

Bermuda
Click to expand...
I daresay that is one of the key reasons you are a professional who is gainfully employed. There's a lot of drummers who I am amazed at but I don't know how well they'd fit into a band environment.
 
What happened to unconditional love? geesh! someone gives a compliment and then immediately takes it away or picks at it. Strange.
 
My point was we all evaluate other musicians when we listen to them playing.
But we don't need to make comments about what we think.

Even when players on this forum ask for opinions of their playing, we need to be very careful with what we say.

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In part because many people have unrealistic expectations. Some people have this mentality to be a truly great drummer, they have to do it all, rock, double bass, extreme metal, jazz, latin, and everything under the sun at a high level. And the fact is, no one is an expert in every field.

So its comes out as so-and-so is great at what they do, then they put a "but" in there because so-and-so doesn't live up to this notion of doing it all.


Or, it's a defense mechanism.

I.E. as we've seen over the years on here, someone people love to bash Ringo, or Neil Peart, or whomever. So a person might say "Neil, is great" and then adds a "but" in there so they can cut off the critics comebacks before the critic has a chance to explain why some other so-and-so is better.
 
Bo you have nothing to worry about. You're not they sort of drummer that gets these types of comments. Like you worry about this stuff anyway. You are awesomeness personified.
 
Most musicians I hear are good players - they have the skills and knowledge of form to function in a group setting. Not everyone can be Steve Gadd, though, so you have the "too loud, too whatever" comments.

I do think some of the public's comments about top players are asinine, though. Think of how often some oblivious acne-head will say a pro musician is "crap". The public is so used to hearing good tempo and timing in public performances that they take good timing for granted. As though it wasn't a skill in itself.

This perception gap also afflicts many noob musos, most likely the ones who say simple pop drummers are crap :)
 
Lets see if I can make this thought coherant.

I've always thought when you see a band you have never heard before you start by thinking "ok can they play, do they have some skill, are they adept at their instruments?". If they tick that box, the first hurdle if you will, then here comes the really hard part. Then you start thinking "ok, so they qualify as musicians who deserve a bit of my listening time, now... "do I like it, do I really like it to the point where I want to dance/buy their record?"

Relating this to the thread I think these kind of comments are often levelled at drummers who pass the first test for you, but fail the second.
 
This is an interesting discussion but....
 
It's called overthinking any given topic :).

But still - great answer (as usual) to the subject:
bermuda said:
Somebody can be an incredible drummer... but not be a good musician. If Vinnie didn't know when to play 2&4, he'd be a poor musician.

Comments regarding volume, tempo, overplaying (or underplaying) address that difference, whether or not that person is aware they're doing so. When I listen to a drummer, I assess them on both counts. Usually, one or both are strong, but sometimes they don't qualify for either camp (most often with a local live band where a drummer's failings are tolerated more than they are on recordings or pro touring bands.)

The converse is also true, where musicianship outshines the playing.

Bermuda
Click to expand...
 
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