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  #1  
Old 10-20-2011, 06:01 PM
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Default Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Right now, we're designing the lugs for the production version of our prototype kit. Their function dictates the design to some degree, as these lugs won't be bolted/screwed to the shell. They will be visible, & will sit approximately in the usual place, but will float away from the shell.

I'm very interested to hear your personal feelings on lug design:

How important is the lug design to the overall appeal of the drum?

Do you prefer slender & minimalist?

Do you prefer retro classic? (think Rogers Beavertail, various Ludwig, etc)

Or do you prefer fancy design statement? (think DW, Sonor)

Really appreciate your views.

Thanks, Andy.
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2011, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

I prefer the least amount of lug, touching the shell in the fewest places, covering the least area. The opposite of that is DW, where their lugs are as large and heavy as possible and cover as much of the exotic wood finish as possible.
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  #3  
Old 10-20-2011, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Hey Andy. When Mapex was trying to figure out a new lug design for their new Black Panther lineup, they used a Mapex friendly site that I used to belong too. The guy that runs the site put up a pole as a thread. I think size was one of the choices,finish, fancy or plain, stuff like that.

Too me a lug should not be big enough to take away from the drum. I liken it to a button on a tailored suit. I am not a big fan of brushed. I am an Electrician and brushed hardware reminds me of cheap light fixtures. :)

My vote would be small, polished, simple. Good luck.

Last edited by sticks4drums; 10-20-2011 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 10-20-2011, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

From a minimalist perspective,I think late 30's era Gretsch/Gladstone mini tube lugs are just really classy.On the larger side,I also love Ludwig classics,especially the large ones,and the Imperial lug,long and the familar short double sided snare lug.

I have short beavertails on my 47 Slingerland Radio King,that are beautiful also,and take a backseat to the streamline rk lugs.So maybe a mini version of that,in chrome,or black nickel.Just as long as its not powdercoated.

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Old 10-20-2011, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

The visuals of a lug design shouldn't be such a big deal, but it is. I've never liked the look of DW lugs. The last time a bought a new kit, I didn't have a dollar limit and actually considered getting a DW, but I just. couldn't. get. past the circular lugs. I don't know why, but I think they're the ugliest objects in the universe. However, I'm used to them now and if I were looking for a new kit, I wouldn't let their lugs stop me from considering one.

As far as larger lugs goes, I always liked the late '70s early '80s Tama lugs. Probably my favorite look of any lug I've ever seen.

But I prefer small simple lugs. They're just more elegant and I have no desire to see large objects bolted to my shell.
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Old 10-20-2011, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

What do you want the lugs to do (besides provide an anchor point for the tension rods)? Act as a trade mark (like DW lugs) and so allow you a smaller badge (like DW and c.f. Sonor) or do you want to contribute to the aesthetic in a way that appeals to customers? If the latter you are unlikely to please everyone and given you don't have a clear demographic (e.g. teenaged metal fans with relatively small wallets) that would allow you to survey (via focus groups or whatever) you might as well go for what you think suits the drum and what you can have produced at a price point that suits the selling price of your drums.
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  #7  
Old 10-20-2011, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

The current Pearl Masters lug I think is the all around best. The look is clean the bridge allows the least amount of that lugs material to touch the shell. The small Premier lugs that resemble a half circle or even their newest design I think is attractive because it doesn't take away from the shells finishes. I think their design works well also.
As for the vintage lugs I like the mini Ludwig classic, the Camco Moon (today known as DW) are also favorites of mine. The smaller bullets (slingerland) were ok and beavertails were not one of my favorites. With todays beautifull finishes I think the lug needs to be highly efficent but not detract from the finishes. YRC are purposefull.Gotta love the tubes!!! Doc.
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  #8  
Old 10-20-2011, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Personally they matter. I'm a fan of tube lugs but it's very easy to make tube lugs look 'cheap' if you get it wrong. Something medium-sized (maybe a centimetre on the 'tube' of the lug if it's a short lug. It needs to be in proportion with itself, really. All too often they just look too small to me and although I don't like a large lug, I think there needs to be some essence of machining present.

As for the finish? Matte, please. Imagine brushed titanium (or even a little darker) and you're onto something. I'm not a fan of overly shiny materials particularly and think a brushed lug looks really great on a natural drum.
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  #9  
Old 10-20-2011, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

My theory for lugs selection is that they should be treat as what they are: an accessory. You want the aesthetic focus to be the shell, not the lugs. Lugs that make a statement, lugs that clash with the grain flow, etc. are not pleasing to the eye. You want a lug that complements the shell and doesn't take away any attention from the shell and the rest of the drum design.

Examples:
Beavertails - too much detail on the lugs, all those grooves attract your eyes to the lugs and away from the actual drum
Sonor Teardrop - I see this as a publicity stunt. I hate these lugs, maybe its just me. The long pointy witch nose lugs are really all I can stare at when I looks at those drums.
DW - obviously too big
etc.
I don't really have any problems with tube lugs, I just don't like them that much. Something about thick solid chrome lines down the sides of my drums doesn't appeal to me. Its almost like the drum is in jail.

I love the Yamaha tear drop lugs and Gretsch lugs. The Yamaha lugs are small, with no detail, just smooth chrome, so they don't attract any attention. They just add some color and shine. Gretsch lugs are classic.. I don't really have an explaination for that one.
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  #10  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Tube lugs ftw.

If I would purchase a Guru kit, i'd make sure to have tube lugs installed on it, preferably in black nickel.


;)
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  #11  
Old 10-20-2011, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Thanks guys, great responses so far. These lugs will be very light weight as part of the design requirement. Keep the replies coming, especially on clean/minimalistic vs. added detail.

Lutz ;)
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  #12  
Old 10-20-2011, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SickRick View Post
Tube lugs ftw.

If I would purchase a Guru kit, i'd make sure to have tube lugs installed on it, preferably in black nickel.


;)
HA! Yes, tube lugs for me all the way. The only contact the shell in one spot (at least mine do), which reduces penetrations into the shell. On the downside, they are a little bit more fragile, especially as they get longer. I have an 18-inch-deep bass drum and those are looooong lugs.
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  #13  
Old 10-21-2011, 01:22 AM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
The visuals of a lug design shouldn't be such a big deal, but it is. I've never liked the look of DW lugs.

But I prefer small simple lugs. They're just more elegant and I have no desire to see large objects bolted to my shell.
+1 ... it's still not a big deal for me but if I had to choose then I'd rather see more drum and less lug.
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  #14  
Old 10-21-2011, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
+1 ... it's still not a big deal for me but if I had to choose then I'd rather see more drum and less lug.
+2.

Ya took the words right outta my mouth.
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  #15  
Old 10-21-2011, 01:33 AM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Would you wear a suit with 3 inch buttons on it?
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  #16  
Old 10-21-2011, 02:07 AM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

big time, dw and pacific have nasty lugs...pork pie's hourglass lugs aren't appealing, not too fond of ludwig's either (those wedge ones)...i loooove tube, teardrop, and gretsch style lugs
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  #17  
Old 10-21-2011, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
if I had to choose then I'd rather see more drum and less lug.
Thanks Pol, I'm guessing that covers about 50% of the drum community?
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2011, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Not a fan of tube lugs (at least not on toms and kicks), they're too flimsy looking for me. I really like the more engineered ones, like the Pearl Reference lugs. Nice and modern, and with a bit of chunkyness to them. I also like the DW and Sonor type lugs.

I also really like black nickel when it comes to lugs and rims. More shine and sparkle than black chrome, but a more subdued look than chrome or gold.
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  #19  
Old 10-21-2011, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Tube lugs, but not those standard ones.. Craviottos are sexy. I also find DW appealing, but that may be because they're associated with luxury etc.
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  #20  
Old 10-21-2011, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

I like my lugs small and smooth, with no detail lines or ridges (like Ludwigs large classic and imperial lugs) for instance) that are hard to polish.

Andy, if the lugs are isolated from the shell...
You've said many times that everything needs to vibrate as a whole. I would think that if the lugs are isolated from the shell, that a rimshot might not sound as good because the vibrations imposed on the rim goes down the tension rod to the lug, then from the lug to the shell to get the added shell sound from a rimshot. If the lugs are isolated from the shell, how are the vibrations transferred to the shell? Is this a non issue?
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  #21  
Old 10-21-2011, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I like my lugs small and smooth, with no detail lines or ridges (like Ludwigs large classic and imperial lugs) for instance) that are hard to polish.

Andy, if the lugs are isolated from the shell...
You've said many times that everything needs to vibrate as a whole. I would think that if the lugs are isolated from the shell, that a rimshot might not sound as good because the vibrations imposed on the rim goes down the tension rod to the lug, then from the lug to the shell to get the added shell sound from a rimshot. If the lugs are isolated from the shell, how are the vibrations transferred to the shell? Is this a non issue?
Great input Larry! It's both an issue & a non issue at the same time. I won't go into detail here, that's for another day, but the entire drum resonating as a whole is a very important consideration. In fact, so important, it's the foundation consideration in our new design. The lugs are an integral part of that.

As a side note, our isolation of the lugs is way beyond rubber grommets, washers, or other largely pointless gaskets between a standard lug & a shell. It's usually better in a standard drum construction, IMO, to bolt the lug directly to the shell. Gaskets just add mass without any benefit, in fact, I think they just make things worse by adding non resonant mass.

Anyhow, science crap out of the way, keep those aesthetic opinions coming, it's really helpful!
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  #22  
Old 10-21-2011, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

My favorite lugs have been the Classic Ludwig, Yamaha 80's Tour Custom, and Pearls Masters lug.
Gretsch is a nice lug also.

Basically they all have the same shape haha!

I kinda like Tube lugs. Craviatto's tube lugs look nicer because of the diamond shape base.
I like those "Shark tooth" lugs that are on some of those OCDP GC kits...again, kinda that same shape!

I really like Black Nickle plating.

DW's lug is OK, but, on smaller drums, it's just to big. I liked their small button lug a lot, and I like the new Performance lug a lot.

Don't dislike Mapex's lug, but it doesn't really add anything to me for a "wow, look at that kit" (other than in Black Nickle). It's nice, but not wow. Not a deal breaker though, their finishes are cool, and the lug doesn't take away from the drum at all.

Sometimes the shape of lugs make them look like plastic to me.
The lugs on Crush drums for example. Real nice looking kit, but for some odd reason, that lug looks like chromed plastic to me.
The lug Gibraltar used on their Legend snares had the same effect on me.
Ddrums lugs look really cheap-o.

I've always loved Yamaha's RC long lugs, and Ludwig's Mach lugs too.

It all adds up in the sound of the drum, and "resonance" is not a problem on any of the drums I have with the long lugs at all.
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  #23  
Old 10-21-2011, 09:08 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

You know Andy,I just rememberd this.It was 1972,my freshman year of collage,and my band and I were in a rehersal studio,and a drummer who worked there had a serious drug problem.He wanted to sell me a 6 piece set of Camco's in natural maple with 6 Zildjians for 200 dollars US.As good as that kit sounded...I turned him down,because I just hated the turret lugs on those drums.You live and you learn thankfully,but that was one colossally stupid move on my part,but it illustrated how at the time....I was listening with my eyes.Cheers mate.

Steve B
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  #24  
Old 10-21-2011, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

I either like simple and understated like Yamaha or functional like Ego's quick release lugs:

http://www.egodrumsupply.com/quickrelease.html

On the other hand I also like bold and daring like Sonor's mock tube lugs, although I really don't care for the offset look, or of course the rope-tuned look of my Crazy 8's snare.

I'm with most everyone else in not caring for the DW lugs, although I did see a member's kit on here in Campaign Sparkle that look sexy. Those lugs worked just fine on that baby.
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  #25  
Old 10-21-2011, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Lugs, to me, are every bit as important as the shell finish. I don't like small, wimpy, barely-noticeable lugs. I wouldn't buy a Harley and try to hide all of the chrome.

My favorite lugs (and drums) are Ludwig. Specifically, I like the big "classic" lugs best...not the smaller mini-classics. They're stylish and aggressive, like those big, pretty fins on a '57 Chevy.

My least favorite lugs are those tiny, single-point ones that are so minimalist, they're boring.
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  #26  
Old 10-22-2011, 01:39 AM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

KIS, im a huge fan of functionality and i find great beauty in a product that serves a purpose to the point well it is evolved to that end alone.
As far as looks go, im not overly taken on ornate or ostentatious lugs. Something discreet and minimal is where its at. You dont want to go down the route of 'lugs with drums attached'.
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  #27  
Old 10-22-2011, 03:10 AM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

I can't say that any lug out there has really knocked me out. I don't have a favorite. I envision a lug that has a small as possible simple design, like Spauns, except it is equipped with a way that would allow you to change the "facade" of the lug. The facade could wrap around and hide the entire lug, and since it attaches to the lug, could be made in any number of individual styles, so you could make a ton of coin on the facades. The sky is the limit as far as facades go, you could have them hand painted, they could be mirrors, they could be in the shape of crescent moons, they could be the same color as the drums, they could be miniature movie posters. They could be phallic shaped. They could be shaped any way you want. A whole industry could be built around the facades. It could be made of metal, painted ceramic or enamel, wood, leather, beer bottle shaped, diamond or CZ studded, they could have button battery powered LED's in them...Of course you don't have to have the facade, the lug should be able to stand on it's own.I think it would be a cool marketing move.

Last edited by larryace; 10-22-2011 at 03:32 AM.
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  #28  
Old 10-22-2011, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Larry, the only thing I don't like about that idea is that the facades might catch on things when lugging or putting in the cases. I can easily imagine them being knocked off and lost at gigs.
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  #29  
Old 10-22-2011, 06:12 AM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Larry, the only thing I don't like about that idea is that the facades might catch on things when lugging or putting in the cases. I can easily imagine them being knocked off and lost at gigs.
Good point. I think they could be designed to not catch on things. For a conventional lug I would like to see a classic teardrop shape. Or perhaps a lug in the shape of Buddy Rich's head lol.
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  #30  
Old 10-22-2011, 10:31 AM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

Ahh, tough task Andy. As a builder I have a hard time finding lugs available that I like. I've always loved the Sonor Link era big box lug, but that may be my feelings for the line as much as the lug itself. I also like the Classic ludwig in its 3 sizes and double ended snare. I like tube lugs, but they seem to have lost some appeal since becoming available from Worldmax and others. They certainly are not as unique as when we first started using them some 16 years ago.

Another point to ponder is cost to manufacture. Unless you are having a large batch die cast for you, machining lugs is expensive. We (when I worked for Goetz) used to make our own tube lugs and I spent more hours than I care to remember behind a buffing wheel.

Good luck...
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Old 10-22-2011, 01:33 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

I refuse to buy DW shells because of their lugs. No lie.

Pearl's Championship lugs on their marching tenors have always looked cool to me. I also liked those Unix lugs I saw a while back that were the hook-and-catch type, they looked awesome as well.
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  #32  
Old 10-22-2011, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

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Originally Posted by latzanimal View Post
Ahh, tough task Andy. As a builder I have a hard time finding lugs available that I like. I've always loved the Sonor Link era big box lug, but that may be my feelings for the line as much as the lug itself. I also like the Classic ludwig in its 3 sizes and double ended snare. I like tube lugs, but they seem to have lost some appeal since becoming available from Worldmax and others. They certainly are not as unique as when we first started using them some 16 years ago.

Another point to ponder is cost to manufacture. Unless you are having a large batch die cast for you, machining lugs is expensive. We (when I worked for Goetz) used to make our own tube lugs and I spent more hours than I care to remember behind a buffing wheel.

Good luck...
Good meaty post there Latz, & I can assure you, neither Dean or myself have any intention of doing serious "buffing wheel hours" :(

These new lugs will look different no matter what style they're crafted in, because they function quite differently to normal lugs. They are going to be quite a challenge in the tooling & manufacture for sure.

One common theme through the members here, & as I suspected, lug aesthetic is a big deal, whether it makes sense or not.
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Old 10-22-2011, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: Lugs, how important is the aesthetic?

I really like the Gretsch mini lug or the Keystone Epic lug. They are relatively small, simple and classy looking with the Epic lug having a nice understated art deco kind of look.

My 2 cents
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