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  #1  
Old 06-20-2011, 05:17 PM
haroldo_psf haroldo_psf is offline
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Default Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Jesus Christ. I've been learning for 6 months now. I purchased a Samson 7kit, and for now set up the overheads only. I then this weekend recorded myself playing along to a song I've been obsessed with learning (Muse's Hysteria).

I knew I didn't play it well, as I'm such a noob still. However, I never imagined how badly I sucked. It's bad. I heard that recording myself would be an eye opening experience, but I never thought it would be like this.

For a moment I second guessed this whole thing. What the hell was I thinking when I decided to start this whole drum thing at 33 yo? What was I smoking? I'll never be good, it's been 6 months and the amount of suckage I produce is huge.

But then I gave it a try for a couple of hours, and repeatedly recorded myself playing the different grooves in the song, and tried to fix things slowly. I actually improved more in this couple of hours of recording myself (as far as jamming to this song) than I had in the past month.

I am trying to see the light in this whole situation and realize that now that I see how bad I am, I can try to fix things.

Did you ever have such a revealing moment when you were learning (or later)?

EDIT: IT WAS MY EQUIPMENT! See post 31!!!! Thanks all for the nice encouraging words!
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Last edited by haroldo_psf; 06-23-2011 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 06-20-2011, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haroldo_psf View Post
Did you ever have such a revealing moment when you were learning (or later)?
Yes, indeed!
But I've become better since, and last week we had an awesome gig.
Keep on practice!
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  #3  
Old 06-20-2011, 05:52 PM
Witterings Witterings is offline
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

I've so often seen drummers post if you want to improve ..... record yourself .... and it's so true.

Don't beat yourself up either, you've only been playing 6 months which is really only enough time to learn the very basics, now you've got those foundations in place go and start buidling on them and recrding yourself will help massively !!!!

It's along journey and you're only at the beginning !!!
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Don't beat yourself up perhaps if you'd been playing on a top quality kit recorded professionally it would of sounded much better.

Keep practicing consistency is the key.

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  #5  
Old 06-20-2011, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

6 months is not a long time.

You have to figure the average kid who starts playing in high school or whatever has a few years before they even start playing with bands or doing recordings.

Don't beat yourself up yet.
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

it takes about 4 years to be able to play with a halfway decent group. im not saying this is your goal, but im sure this is how good you want to be.

and yes, i know the feeling. as a newb myself, im always surprised at how bad i am when i play it back. tone sucks, timing sucks, accents suck, and this is all after i think ive finally got the chosen groove good enough to record.

sadness.

at those times, yes i wonder why i ever started this.

once, after the drum part had played back, a guitar part that i had forgotten recording came up and i was blown away - it actually sounded better than i thought i did. in the midst of my depression,it gave me hope that i can indeed get there on drums too.

you will too.
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

I've been playing seven years, and every recording I do fills me with a burning desire to sort my playing out bigtime. I wouldn't worry too much!
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  #8  
Old 06-20-2011, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Imagine you could play as well as the pro's in six months? Everyone would be doing it, and I would be out of a job.
There was literature in New Scientist a few years ago saying that if you want to be GREAT at something, it takes about 10,000 hours of practice. Thats about 13.5 months of solid practice, and you cant get that in six months.
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:33 PM
haroldo_psf haroldo_psf is offline
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jingscrivenshelpmaboab View Post
Imagine you could play as well as the pro's in six months? Everyone would be doing it, and I would be out of a job.
There was literature in New Scientist a few years ago saying that if you want to be GREAT at something, it takes about 10,000 hours of practice. Thats about 13.5 months of solid practice, and you cant get that in six months.
Thanks. I hope I didn't offend anyone with my post. I don't expect to be even remotely good in 6 months. I know it takes a LOT of time and effort to be good, and what you long time players achieved came with patiance and perseverance, so please don't take my post as putting you guys down by saying I somehow expected to be OK in 6 months. That's not it at all. I was just shocked to find out that I didn't just "kinda suck", but I trully am a master of the suckage. It's OK, I get it, and the reality shock has kind of passed.

I just wanted to share this because, even though it's hard for me to admit, I did feel discouraged, and you guys are helping me snap out of it. so thanks
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  #10  
Old 06-20-2011, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Hey haroldo_psf, don't be discouraged. Use this as a tool to get better, if you are discouraged that shows you want more out of your drumming. Your just starting your journey, don't be bummed, have fun with it. Good luck to you and keep at it!
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  #11  
Old 06-20-2011, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Bet I suck worse than you!!! LOL
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  #12  
Old 06-20-2011, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Recording yourself is the best tool along with live playing experience for any musician on any instrument.

I heard a recording of my self when I started playing saxophone and I was not impressed, but what I remember best is the first time I heard a recording of myself when it actually sounded pretty good. Continuos recording was what made that possible.

Over time, as you grow as a musician, you'll develop the ability to to hear it as it is in the moment.
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  #13  
Old 06-20-2011, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

I wouldn't be discouraged at all if you've only been playing for a few months. i've been playing for many years and i still cringe when i hear recordings of myself. my standards are higher now, but it's the same feeling you experienced i'm sure. the good thing is you can now easily hear where you're messing up and can easily identify what you need to work on.
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

You're hardly alone and shouldn't be discouraged. Use the recordings to identify where you need to improve and work on it. It sounds like you're already doing just that, so you're on the right track.

Being self-critical and objective about your strengths and weaknesses is a big part of it. Not everyone is able to do that. So take some comfort in knowing that all musicians go through this, especially early on.
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  #15  
Old 06-20-2011, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Man I have this revealing moment at least once a week. But I don't feel horrible about it because I know I'm working on my problems. Hopefully one day I'll be known as that guy who plays some pretty decent drums ;).
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  #16  
Old 06-20-2011, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

I know exactly where you're at. I've been playing for just 4 months and started at 43 as opposed to your young 33! I know I suck and haven't even gotten the courage up to record myself yet. There are days I get very discouraged and have to remind myself that I'm very new at this, older and starting completely from scratch.

When that happens, I usually go back through my earliest lessons and realize that although I don't know much now, it is sometimes how much I've learned. Doesn't mean I've mastered it but at least I'm progressing.

Keep up the good work and good luck!
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  #17  
Old 06-20-2011, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

As you record yourself many times, your ability to hear while playing will increase,
and therefore you will be able to improve more and more.
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  #18  
Old 06-20-2011, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haroldo_psf View Post
Jesus Christ. I've been learning for 6 months now. I purchased a Samson 7kit, and for now set up the overheads only. I then this weekend recorded myself playing along to a song I've been obsessed with learning (Muse's Hysteria).

I knew I didn't play it well, as I'm such a noob still. However, I never imagined how badly I sucked. It's bad. I heard that recording myself would be an eye opening experience, but I never thought it would be like this.

For a moment I second guessed this whole thing. What the hell was I thinking when I decided to start this whole drum thing at 33 yo? What was I smoking? I'll never be good, it's been 6 months and the amount of suckage I produce is huge.

But then I gave it a try for a couple of hours, and repeatedly recorded myself playing the different grooves in the song, and tried to fix things slowly. I actually improved more in this couple of hours of recording myself (as far as jamming to this song) than I had in the past month.

I am trying to see the light in this whole situation and realize that now that I see how bad I am, I can try to fix things.

Did you ever have such a revealing moment when you were learning (or later)?
Easy there, turbo. Heavy alert!

I've been playing for years and am amazed at how much I can suck on any given day. You've been going at it for six months and are getting disappointed? It takes time, my friend. At least you're listening to yourself (most kids can't afford mics and stuff to do any detailed studying of their playing) so you are aware. Just keep plugging away and one day it'll be like a lightbulb gets turned on and bingo - you're on another level. Then you just keep progressing up the levels. It'll come, with time.
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  #19  
Old 06-20-2011, 11:41 PM
AtomicFlapjack AtomicFlapjack is offline
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Slow down! Hysteria's not an easy tune with the ride and hi hat work going on at the same time, not a song I would expect anyone of 6 months to be playing. I can play it fairly comfortably, but I've been playing almost 2 years. Don't just assume you're rubbish cause you can't play something, especially when its something challenging! :)
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  #20  
Old 06-21-2011, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I've been playing for years and am amazed at how much I can suck on any given day.
lol!!

+1....2....3....AND 4.

6 months is still well entrenched in "beginner stage" mate. I don't know the song you're working on but be sure not to bite off more than you can chew. Sure it's great to push yourself by choosing material that is challenging, but make it too hard on yourself and it can have a negative effect.

Be sure to set realistic goals that you know are achievable with a little time and dedication (not saying you're not....just a reminder in case you'd forgotten). Make things way too difficult for yourself and motivation falls by the wayside.....it's easy to get dejected.

Aim high by all means, but don't put yourself out of contention in the process.
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  #21  
Old 06-21-2011, 02:51 AM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haroldo_psf View Post
Jesus Christ. I've been learning for 6 months now. I purchased a Samson 7kit, and for now set up the overheads only. I then this weekend recorded myself playing along to a song I've been obsessed with learning (Muse's Hysteria).

I knew I didn't play it well, as I'm such a noob still. However, I never imagined how badly I sucked. It's bad. I heard that recording myself would be an eye opening experience, but I never thought it would be like this.

For a moment I second guessed this whole thing. What the hell was I thinking when I decided to start this whole drum thing at 33 yo? What was I smoking? I'll never be good, it's been 6 months and the amount of suckage I produce is huge.

But then I gave it a try for a couple of hours, and repeatedly recorded myself playing the different grooves in the song, and tried to fix things slowly. I actually improved more in this couple of hours of recording myself (as far as jamming to this song) than I had in the past month.

I am trying to see the light in this whole situation and realize that now that I see how bad I am, I can try to fix things.

Did you ever have such a revealing moment when you were learning (or later)?
Watching and listening to yourself play is one of the most important things you can do, during your regular practice when you're not recording, try setting up a mirror near your set so you can watch the whole time, that will also speed up your progress!

Don't get discouraged, just keep working at it! You saw yourself how you can improve noticeably in just a few hours, keep that up for another year and you'll be a killer drummer :D
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  #22  
Old 06-21-2011, 03:53 AM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

I began playing drums 6 years ago (at 11 y/o) and the drumset about 2 years ago. When I got my IPod Touch, I found the "Voice Memo" feature on it, and started recording anytime I played a piece for band. Then I'd listen to the professional recording and compare the two.

Let me tell you, recording playing sessions will really improve listening skills and keep you aware of what your abilities are. For a short time, I thought I was better than I actually was. That's not a good mentality to be walking around with. I mean, I'm still above average for a high school student, but I thought I was great. Being exposed to more talented drummers fixed that problem and helped me to improve faster. I'd rather be bad and aware of my faults than good with a wrong impression of my abilities.

Don't be discouraged. Use that suckiness to motivate yourself! All of us here sucked at one point (or currently) in our musical journey, but good practice can change that. Keep holding yourself to a high, but reasonable standard, and you'll see progress in no time.

Last edited by AlphaAccount; 06-21-2011 at 04:17 AM.
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  #23  
Old 06-21-2011, 04:18 AM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Haha! Been there done that myself. I remember the first time i recorded myself and i'll swear for a second i thought about just putting the sticks down and learning another instrument.lol As the others have said, your just 6 months into drums so it's not going to sound all that great. I've been playing for over 5yrs, a bit of a newby also, and to this day i still find things wrong with something i've played after i listen to it. It's not a bad thing in fact it's perfectly normal. Just stay with it and no matter how bad you think you sound now as long as you keep practicing you'll only get better. In the future you'll start playing things back and it will sound nice and smooth...that will be your reward for all your hard work. Good luck to ya!!
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  #24  
Old 06-21-2011, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

What sounds good on the recordings? It can't be all bad. Are the grooves in time? Do you fall apart during fills? Is it possible you're trying too much/difficult material at once? Play a few straight grooves, listen, and take it from there slowly. If you can't even play those consistently in time then work on that first, aided with metronome. Build up from there.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

I remember making a school project about rock, and rock musicians. I decided to do some covers and show them as somekind of creative product. It sooner became more than a challenge. I had to find a camera and shiet. When i finally started recording i remember screwing up a totally easy song about seven times. When i've done it 2 days ago with no failures. Shiet it sounded like shit. I also had to put in the music afterwards, and it was almost impossible to find the right spot. Spend about 4 hours per song.

I also have no mics, but it actually went pretty okay. Anything but the toms sounded okay in the recording.

I will NEVER make such a school project again. From now on, i'll ony do it for the fun of it, if i can find any fun...
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  #26  
Old 06-21-2011, 10:06 PM
haroldo_psf haroldo_psf is offline
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Underhill View Post
What sounds good on the recordings? It can't be all bad. Are the grooves in time?
not consitently, as I just found out :)
A few things, like the intro groove, was waaaay off. I fixed that (I just didn't hear it like that until I recorded myself). Other grooves in the song are not way off like that, but not on time all the time. I fall apart from time to time. The good thing is I didn't notice that until now, so I plan on working on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Underhill View Post
Do you fall apart during fills?
Actually the fills, and transition back into the grooves are OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Underhill View Post
Is it possible you're trying too much/difficult material at once?
Not only possible, but a sure thing! :) I know this material is over my head. I just became obsessed with it right when I got the coordination part down. I then, for some reason, started to think that I could actually pull it off. So, now it became a mission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Underhill View Post
Play a few straight grooves, listen, and take it from there slowly. If you can't even play those consistently in time then work on that first, aided with metronome. Build up from there.
Thank, that's actually what I have been doing from the start. The thing is, after I turn the metronome off and play along to the song, I just couldn't hear myself making mistakes. I practiced like that (metronome, than play along) for a month. Then now, when I recorded myself, I saw that even though I was doing OK with the metronome, when the metronome was off, I couldn't hear myself well during the song itself. Now I can.

Thanks everyone for the positive words. I trully see this recording thing as a very positive thing in my development, and I am actually glad and thankful I had the opportunity for this reality check so early in my learning, as many people, like you all pointed out, don't do this until much later.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haroldo_psf View Post
Jesus Christ. I've been learning for 6 months now. I purchased a Samson 7kit, and for now set up the overheads only. I then this weekend recorded myself playing along to a song I've been obsessed with learning (Muse's Hysteria).

I knew I didn't play it well, as I'm such a noob still. However, I never imagined how badly I sucked. It's bad. I heard that recording myself would be an eye opening experience, but I never thought it would be like this.

For a moment I second guessed this whole thing. What the hell was I thinking when I decided to start this whole drum thing at 33 yo? What was I smoking? I'll never be good, it's been 6 months and the amount of suckage I produce is huge.

But then I gave it a try for a couple of hours, and repeatedly recorded myself playing the different grooves in the song, and tried to fix things slowly. I actually improved more in this couple of hours of recording myself (as far as jamming to this song) than I had in the past month.

I am trying to see the light in this whole situation and realize that now that I see how bad I am, I can try to fix things.

Did you ever have such a revealing moment when you were learning (or later)?
Hey dude, that's why I've been recording every practice for the last 3 weeks. I noticed I improve the most by listening to my playback. But yeah, some days I play like an ass. Like, my arms are noodley or something lol.
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Old 06-22-2011, 05:04 AM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jingscrivenshelpmaboab View Post
There was literature in New Scientist a few years ago saying that if you want to be GREAT at something, it takes about 10,000 hours of practice.
Yep, and that's no taking into account the quality of practice.

Haroldo, at 6 months you are a beginner. How can you judge yourself at this stage?

Improvement is not linear where you get steadily better and better. It's a plateau by plateau by process where physical and mental information (and the integration of the physical and mental) can take time to bed down.

So you may find yourself going for months without apparent improvement (although connections are being made at a deeper level). Then one week you suddenly find you've made a big leap forward. But the improvement actually didn't just happen in that week ... those unrealised improvements were happening while you fumed and grumbled about not getting anywhere, struggling clumsily through patterns and contemplating quitting drums and taking up knitting instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I've been playing for years and am amazed at how much I can suck on any given day.
PFOG already got to +4 so I'll add another ... +5.

Good days and bad days ...
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:33 AM
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Yep, and that's no taking into account the quality of practice.

Haroldo, at 6 months you are a beginner. How can you judge yourself at this stage?

Improvement is not linear where you get steadily better and better. It's a plateau by plateau by process where physical and mental information (and the integration of the physical and mental) can take time to bed down.

So you may find yourself going for months without apparent improvement (although connections are being made at a deeper level). Then one week you suddenly find you've made a big leap forward. But the improvement actually didn't just happen in that week ... those unrealised improvements were happening while you fumed and grumbled about not getting anywhere, struggling clumsily through patterns and contemplating quitting drums and taking up knitting instead.




PFOG already got to +4 so I'll add another ... +5.

Good days and bad days ...
sometimes you can suck and improve at the same time.

its like all of a sudden you can play something you never thought youd be able to play...but not well.

next step (after that giant leap) is to play it well.

then, on to the next plateau.
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:43 AM
Jim Mattingly Jim Mattingly is offline
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Ha Ha Ha, love it...It 's all good and just remember the proof is in the pudding. Hearing recordings of yourself will do one of two things for you. It will either make you a better drummer or it will make you stop playing. You have not been at it long enough, so don't get too discouraged just yet. You will not become a proficient drummer in a matter of months/years. It is going to take quite a bit of time and numerous periods of frustration. What made you choose drums in the first place, I am hoping the love of the instrument, give it time, plenty of time before you give up. I use a Tascam DR pocket recorder when not actually recording, very cheap and very easy to record your sessions. Obviously the quality is non existent but it is a fantastic tool if used and used correctly. Hang in there. Just want to add that recording and knowing you are recording tends to imtimidate quite a few musicians, in turn sometimes making them try to play too good, being relaxed as you possibly can is an added plus and will also come with time and experience...
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  #31  
Old 06-23-2011, 04:11 PM
haroldo_psf haroldo_psf is offline
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

OMFG!!!!

Last night as I was practicing, I turned on the mics, and for the first time, instead of playing along to the song, I just tapped my sticks together to see how it sounded "live" in my headphones. There was, what I guesstimate, a quarter second delay between me tapping the sticks together and actually hearing the sound on my phones!!!! (could be half a second? not sure, but it's an extremelly obvious space in between)

The whole time, I was about a quarter of a second behind in the recording due to the way my setup works. That's why it sounded so horrible. I'm SO RELIEVED!!!!

Of course, I still suck, just not as bad as I thought! WHOHOOO!!!!

PS: I plan on buying a Tascam US-1800 16 channel USB interface, but for the time being, I am only using 2 condensers going into a 4 channel beringer mixer, than going into the line in of my laptop. My laptop takes about a quarter of a second to "process" the line in sound (or that's what I figured). I was using Audacity to play the song AND record myself onto an adjascent track. The problem was, it was recording my drums with a quarter second delay.

What I should have done, and will do next. is to record my drums, then manually line the song and drums track together.

What is funny is that for the past days I have been trying to fix this without knowing, so I have effectivelly been learning to play "ahead" of the song by about a quarter of a second. As if I weren't confused enough.... :) :) :)
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  #32  
Old 06-23-2011, 05:05 PM
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K.Howden K.Howden is offline
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Ahh latency, a horrible beast!

Glad you got it sorted bud,

Kev
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  #33  
Old 06-23-2011, 05:22 PM
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unfunkyfooted unfunkyfooted is offline
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Default Re: Sucking this bad should be illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haroldo_psf View Post
OMFG!!!!

Last night as I was practicing, I turned on the mics, and for the first time, instead of playing along to the song, I just tapped my sticks together to see how it sounded "live" in my headphones. There was, what I guesstimate, a quarter second delay between me tapping the sticks together and actually hearing the sound on my phones!!!! (could be half a second? not sure, but it's an extremelly obvious space in between)

The whole time, I was about a quarter of a second behind in the recording due to the way my setup works. That's why it sounded so horrible. I'm SO RELIEVED!!!!

Of course, I still suck, just not as bad as I thought! WHOHOOO!!!!

PS: I plan on buying a Tascam US-1800 16 channel USB interface, but for the time being, I am only using 2 condensers going into a 4 channel beringer mixer, than going into the line in of my laptop. My laptop takes about a quarter of a second to "process" the line in sound (or that's what I figured). I was using Audacity to play the song AND record myself onto an adjascent track. The problem was, it was recording my drums with a quarter second delay.

What I should have done, and will do next. is to record my drums, then manually line the song and drums track together.

What is funny is that for the past days I have been trying to fix this without knowing, so I have effectivelly been learning to play "ahead" of the song by about a quarter of a second. As if I weren't confused enough.... :) :) :)
beautiful.

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