Open hand playing

I caught a little glimpse of the Dave Matthews BAND NY concert last night on tv. Amongst other things I noticed that Carter B plays in an open-hand style (I believe that is the correct term?- doesnt cross his arms)

For those of play this way- how do you feel you benefit from playing like this?

Looking at it from an non-drummer perspective it is quite odd that we play part of the kit with crossed hands- it seems to go against all the other things we learn around the other parts of the kit in relation to timing and moving around the kit etc.

I am looking at trying to broaden my drumming horizons as I am in kinda of a inspirational slump at the moment- and I wondered if this kind of playing helped to open things up?

Yes he plays open handed. I've been training myself to do that for the last couple of years and it has helped me immensely! It hasn't been easy though, and I'm still not completely comfortable with it, but now I do naturally ride on my hihat with my weak hand. This definitely has helped my weak side!

Some people rearrange their kits and add a ride cymbal on their weak side, but I didn't do any of that.

I love not having to cross over as much. Their some rhythms that I still haven't retrained myself for and cross. It's a lot of fun switching back and forth between crossed and open in a song...

synergy said:

I caught a little glimpse of the Dave Matthews BAND NY concert last night on tv. Amongst other things I noticed that Carter B plays in an open-hand style (I believe that is the correct term?- doesnt cross his arms)

For those of play this way- how do you feel you benefit from playing like this?

Looking at it from an non-drummer perspective it is quite odd that we play part of the kit with crossed hands- it seems to go against all the other things we learn around the other parts of the kit in relation to timing and moving around the kit etc.

I am looking at trying to broaden my drumming horizons as I am in kinda of a inspirational slump at the moment- and I wondered if this kind of playing helped to open things up?

Click to expand...

I am naturally right handed but I naturally play open handed. My left side is still much weaker but since I dont have much stick control with my left I find it much more effective to play open handed where my strong hand is playing on the snare. If you play crossed and learn to play open, it will probably be much easier to switch between the hi hat and ride cymbal.

I'm right-handed and I've been playing for 11 years, but I've only recently begun to experiment with open-handed playing. If the beat is relatively simple without any ghost notes on the snare drum ("Killer Queen" by Queen for example), I'll use my left hand on the hi-hat. Playing open-handed also serves the purpose of giving my right hand a break from keeping time, not to mention that crossing over and having to worry about sticks colliding with each other can be really annoying sometimes!

I have been playing open handed since the day I started. That was 1975! I have been teaching myself to play crossed over the last 3yrs. I have found in my experience that its best to play what feels natural to you. I'm also ambidextrous (left and right handed). Though, learning both above mentioned methods really is a benefit to me. On slow bpm songs it feels great to lay into the hats with my right hand. When it comes to fast tempos and accent notes nothing feels more right then my right hand.

I'm left handed and play open but keep my ride on the right of the kit. It's just the way I learnt. It's good cos it developed my weaker side and I can play patterns on the hats with my left and on the ride with my right, but I find myself leading fills with the left hand, which can cause problems, especially when rolling round the toms.
I'm thinking about moving my ride to the left like Carter Beauford, or money permitting, adding a 2nd ride...

I saw that DMB concert too (awesome) and I always knew that Carter played open-handed, but I just realized that it allows him to have his hi hats almost as low as his snare! I think he is left handed naturally (he leads fills with left) so it was probably easier for him to learn that way than us rightys. Bobby Jarzombek also plays open but I am not sure if he is left handed or right (or ambidextrous). I am thinking of learning the style just to have it in my arsenal. It seems to be more efficient. Can you guys think of any other pros who play this way? I'm blanking.

Simon Phillips, Billy Cobham, Lenny White, Dom Famularo, Mike Mangini, Gene Hoglan are some other drummers who play open handed. There are also people like Danny Carey and Bill Bruford, who've set up their set with the hi-hat in the middle, so they're never "crossed-over" but it's not the same kind of "open-handed" playing that the other guys do, who actually lead with their "weak" hand.

Gene Hoglan? Doesn't he just play open for blasts? I do that as well. I have watched many videos of Mangini and Cobham and never noticed that they played open handed (i was probably too dumbfounded by their chops).

Ive been playing this way since day one, i think it helped my hands develop a little more evenly than the traditional way...this style is all about building your weaker side! It has some advantages in efficiency and creativity, but i had some difficulties with it for years because my left hand was the stronger of the two, especially tom rolls leading with my right hand.

Open handed playing is great for blast beats and high bpm stuff, especially with two ride cymbals/hihats.

Billy Cobham was one of the pioneers of the style back in the early 70s i think...anyone know of any others before him?

Mangini does it with his smallest tom in the middle of the kit and descending sizes going in both directions, almost a completely different style than simon phillips/cobham or danny carey/bruford etc etc

I guess terry bozzio plays "open handed" as well on his chromatic/diatonic behemoth kit...

andSometimesY said:

Gene Hoglan? Doesn't he just play open for blasts? I do that as well. I have watched many videos of Mangini and Cobham and never noticed that they played open handed (i was probably too dumbfounded by their chops).

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Dude, hoglans all open all the time. At least I've never seen him cross over. With Mangini I can see what you're saying, its all chops all the time, nothing too traditional about it. However, if you check out Cobham you'll notice a lot of similarities in his style to Beauford's.

It's not just the open playing that Carter copped off Billy, there are other aspects also. There's a very distinct fill that carter plays, which he totally took from Cobham. It sounds kind of like "krakata-krakata-krakata" to me, but it's obviously hard to put into words. It's a 4 stroke pattern where the groupings are like triplets, but at the 32nd note rate. That doesn't help, does it? Anyway, it's the "big chop" lick you can hear at the end of Ants Marching and a bunch of their other songs. Total Cobham chop, that's all I'm saying.

Sirwill said:

I have been playing open handed since the day I started. That was 1975! I have been teaching myself to play crossed over the last 3yrs. I have found in my experience that its best to play what feels natural to you. I'm also ambidextrous (left and right handed). Though, learning both above mentioned methods really is a benefit to me. On slow bpm songs it feels great to lay into the hats with my right hand. When it comes to fast tempos and accent notes nothing feels more right then my right hand.

Click to expand...

Same with me, although I started in 1983! I invite you and all other open hand drummers to join the group (see below).

I have always played open, left hand on hats and ride, right hand on snare and toms. I can't think of anything else people do crossed-handed. We eat, type, drive, use tools, fight, open doors and play all other instruments open handed. That's natural and ergonomic. Even crossed handed players put their ride to the right, so at least they can play open with they go to ride. I heard a guitarist once say that crossed-handed playing "kept drummers from playing too much" and he didn't like open-handed playing.

Like Crazy+Hands, I am right handed and I like having my dominant hand on the snare. The snare is the heart of the drum set and my right hand has slightly better fine movement control than my left hand and I like having my better hand on the heart of the kit. There are great advantages to having the snare, hats and ride all close to each other.

Also, it is good you don't confuse open playing with ambidextrous playing. I am as set in my ways as any crossed playing and do not often have my right hand play hats or ride. I can't, because my hats are about an inch above my snare. There is no right-handed or left-handed way to play the drum set. There is only open and crossed.

If you play like everyone else plays, you will sound like everyone else sounds.

VedranS said:

Dude, hoglans all open all the time. At least I've never seen him cross over. With Mangini I can see what you're saying, its all chops all the time, nothing too traditional about it. However, if you check out Cobham you'll notice a lot of similarities in his style to Beauford's.

It's not just the open playing that Carter copped off Billy, there are other aspects also. There's a very distinct fill that carter plays, which he totally took from Cobham. It sounds kind of like "krakata-krakata-krakata" to me, but it's obviously hard to put into words. It's a 4 stroke pattern where the groupings are like triplets, but at the 32nd note rate. That doesn't help, does it? Anyway, it's the "big chop" lick you can hear at the end of Ants Marching and a bunch of their other songs. Total Cobham chop, that's all I'm saying.

Click to expand...

I love that fill in Ants Marching! I would love to learn it actually.

VedranS said:

It's not just the open playing that Carter copped off Billy, there are other aspects also. There's a very distinct fill that carter plays, which he totally took from Cobham. It sounds kind of like "krakata-krakata-krakata" to me, but it's obviously hard to put into words. It's a 4 stroke pattern where the groupings are like triplets, but at the 32nd note rate. That doesn't help, does it? Anyway, it's the "big chop" lick you can hear at the end of Ants Marching and a bunch of their other songs. Total Cobham chop, that's all I'm saying.

Click to expand...

The lick you're thinking of is called a "Herta". It's a hybrid rudiment that is typically phrased as an 8th-note triplet. The first note of the triplet is doubled (16th note triplet rate) and the last two notes remain as normal.

As Cobham/Beauford often phrase it, it's two 32nds followed by two 16ths - i.e. a total length of three 16ths. This three 16th-note figure is then cycled through groups of four sixteenths. The resulting three-over-four pattern resolves after three groups of 16th notes (three 1/4 notes or twelve 16ths [12 being the lowest multiple of 3 and 4...]) and then Beauford plays the last beat of the bar as 16ths.

I'll split it into groups of four 16th notes so you can see where the 32nds fall in relation to the quarter note pulse.

R/L = 16ths
r/l = 32nds

rlRLrl RLrlR LrlRL RLRL

So if you're counting 1-e-&-a, etc. the 32nds fall on these counts 1..a ..& ..e. .... The periods represent 16th notes. Sorry, I don't have time to punch in and post a PDF of the notation... Perhaps later.

Boomka said:

The lick you're thinking of is called a "Herta". It's a hybrid rudiment that is typically phrased as an 8th-note triplet. The first note of the triplet is doubled (16th note triplet rate) and the last two notes remain as normal.

As Cobham/Beauford often phrase it, it's two 32nds followed by two 16ths - i.e. a total length of three 16ths. This three 16th-note figure is then cycled through groups of four sixteenths. The resulting three-over-four pattern resolves after three groups of 16th notes (three 1/4 notes or twelve 16ths [12 being the lowest multiple of 3 and 4...]) and then Beauford plays the last beat of the bar as 16ths.

I'll split it into groups of four 16th notes so you can see where the 32nds fall in relation to the quarter note pulse.

R/L = 16ths
r/l = 32nds

rlRLrl RLrlR LrlRL RLRL

So if you're counting 1-e-&-a, etc. the 32nds fall on these counts 1..a ..& ..e. .... The periods represent 16th notes. Sorry, I don't have time to punch in and post a PDF of the notation... Perhaps later.

Click to expand...

Thanks, nice description, I found it very hard to put into words myself. I learned how to play this kind of lick by just playing it along to a metronome and then I'd see how many I could get in before the end of the bar. That way I figured out where it resolves if I play one measure, two, three, and so on...

synergy said:

For those of play this way- how do you feel you benefit from playing like this?

Click to expand...

I'm currently working on becoming an open handed player... and it definitely requires some brain re-wiring! Take it slow... play basic beats then basic songs. I think it was Simon Phillips who would play something right hand lead and then left hand lead and attempt to even it out (or so I read I think).

As far as benefit... it definitely opens up the kit to more being done. As far as setup, it also opens possibilities depending on your style. It also allows me to be a little more creative with my fills and has helped increase my left hand focus, chops and ability.

Sirwill said:

I'm also ambidextrous (left and right handed).

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I hate you... can I have your genes?

Sirwill said:

I have been playing open handed since the day I started. That was 1975! I have been teaching myself to play crossed over the last 3yrs. I have found in my experience that its best to play what feels natural to you. I'm also ambidextrous (left and right handed). Though, learning both above mentioned methods really is a benefit to me. On slow bpm songs it feels great to lay into the hats with my right hand. When it comes to fast tempos and accent notes nothing feels more right then my right hand.

Click to expand...

I started right-handed, and played one year with basic-set. Then I bought double pedals, and started all over again. Back to the basics, and in that moment my principle was: "what goes with right leg, must go with left leg too. Every practise I do, I do it total symmetrical.

I played second year, and then I desided to start playing open handed. About six months later I went to ambi and start all over again, but in that moment I thought that now I start total symmetrical training also with hands. Now I'm here in this point - I can play instantly what I hear, and I don't know what to do with it. Too old to be a rock'n'roll star, too restless to play adult pop songs.

Will Kennedy plays open as well, I was just watching an older MD Festival video the other day with him on it.

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/William_Kennedy.html

I'm tempted to try it out and see if I take to it. I believe I'm ambidextrous as well and I might take to this fairly quickly (at least enough not to get frustrated and forget about it). When I started playing, I had my kit setup left-handed because it felt the most comfortable to me. My left foot is still faster and more easily controlled than my right and I often lead fills w/ my left hand. I can't ever seem to get entirely comfortable w/ crossing my arms.

Why not, eh?

zambizzi said:

Will Kennedy plays open as well, I was just watching an older MD Festival video the other day with him on it.

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/William_Kennedy.html

I'm tempted to try it out and see if I take to it. I believe I'm ambidextrous as well and I might take to this fairly quickly (at least enough not to get frustrated and forget about it). When I started playing, I had my kit setup left-handed because it felt the most comfortable to me. My left foot is still faster and more easily controlled than my right and I often lead fills w/ my left hand. I can't ever seem to get entirely comfortable w/ crossing my arms.

Why not, eh?

Click to expand...

Go ahead and give it a try. You are still early enough in your playing to have some flexibility. You will find immediate benefits having your ride and hats close to each other.

Also, knowing how to play stuff crossed will give you an ambidextrous edge. While I have always played open, I have never tried for ambidexterity.