Bonham's right foot - how did he do it?

They were jazz drummers, ever seen buddy play a rock beat................no!

Actually, I have a CD from his late 70's band, where he plays some rock beats. Sure, they aren't as convincing as a Bonzo beat, and Buddy can't help but swing everything, but IF Buddy wanted to, and was a vital age today, he could play anything, I think.

It's just the matter of "wanting to". He seemed to abhor newer music styles, unless he could adapt it for a big band.

Anyway, it's good to note that Bonzo used old Speedking pedals. While these are still highly-regarded and good quality, they can't be compared with the balance and mechanical capabilities of today's pedals.

One thing that bugs me about Bonzo's stupid death, is that it's almost unfathomable how good he would sound today, especially from an equipment standpoint. Case in point Ginger Baker... notoriously BAD drum sound back in the day. But the Cream concerts in 2005 with his DW's, he sounded BADASS. You just can't tune newer drums badly, or at least not as easily as old Ludwigs with shellac and round bearing edges.
 
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They were jazz drummers, ever seen buddy play a rock beat................no!

As far as I know, technique and speed are not endemic to style/genre. And yes Buddy did play rock and other styles when he had to, but Buddy liked to play big band.
 
Actually, I have a CD from his late 70's band, where he plays some rock beats. Sure, they aren't as convincing as a Bonzo beat, and Buddy can't help but swing everything, but IF Buddy wanted to, and was a vital age today, he could play anything, I think.

It's just the matter of "wanting to". He seemed to abhor newer music styles, unless he could adapt it for a big band.

Anyway, it's good to note that Bonzo used old Speedking pedals. While these are still highly-regarded and good quality, they can't be compared with the balance and mechanical capabilities of today's pedals.

One thing that bugs me about Bonzo's stupid death, is that it's almost unfathomable how good he would sound today, especially from an equipment standpoint. Case in point Ginger Baker... notoriously BAD drum sound back in the day. But the Cream concerts in 2005 with his DW's, he sounded BADASS. You just can't tune newer drums badly, or at least not as easily as old Ludwigs with shellac and round bearing edges.

im sure buddy could of played anything he wanted to, i know what your saying, you just cant compare the two, everybody knows that the likes of Buddy Rich, Morello, Bellson kill most drummers with thier chops, even standing next to likes of Vinnie and the like. For me Bonham was a legend, a true inovator of rock drummer, and one of the main influences.......basically at the time not one was laying it down like Bonham, mitchel had nothing on him (to jazz and not as solid) same goes for baker, just not as solid, and that is the sound that has influenced a generation. I honestley dont believe buddy rich could achieve that sound, thats what im saying.

On a different getting back to the thread and the question. I have done a couple of vids showing how i do the triplet thing, its what people call knee ball, a pivot motion, i find I generally need to start to slide a little bit as I speed up. One thing i will point here is i think it is very important to keep in conatact with the pedal.

Vid 1, just speeding it up and slowing it down link -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Sk73F4OhE

Vid 2, A few examples of using the technique in different places in a grooves in the vein of Bonham.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KRzgLZdus8

enjoy vids, not very good quality, probably not as fast as bonham, probly not much use at all hahah, oh i really do need no shows, cons are looking filthy.
 
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Much of Bonhams sound came from the way he tuned his drums....His bass drum was BIG...like a 26" and it had only felt strips on it ( live maybe not even that much) and while he had a BIG sound I don't think he was crushing drums the way some people exagerate....his sound was big but controlled....Buddy Rich similarly got a BIG sound and he sure as heck did not bash mindlessly.

I am not a big fan of playing thru the drum...absolutely no point to it at all.
 
You can hit really hard without playing through the drum. I tend to play (when I'm in situations when I can) very forcefully, but I use a lot of technique...I have to, since I use a lot of double, triple, and quadruple strokes. But I still like to play loud...as do plenty of drummers past and present. Tony Williams once said something along the lines of "I play the drums loud, because they are meant to be played loud." Philly Joe Jones made fun of Lenny White when he let Lenny sit in one time, saying, "Wow, Lenny, that sounded...something." At another gig, when Philly came out to see Lenny, Lenny told him that Freddie Hubbard (the band leader) was telling him he played too loudly, and Philly Joe said, "Nah, man, now you finally sound GOOD...I used to make Miles' lip bleed I played so hard." And then there are guys like Derrico Watson (you want to talk about a fast foot? He can play double bass licks faster than most guys I've heard (except the extreme death metal guys)...but he does it all with his right foot. It's insane!) today who play very hard, yet still have a lot of technique.

I think where the problem comes in is that everyone has their own definition of what a "basher" is...when you are playing "too hard." It's kind of like when you're driving...everyone going slower than you is too slow, but then if you get passed, the guy is clearly going too fast! :-D It's a personal thing, just like tunings, etc.
 
1 - What are quads (and what tempo)?

2 - Who cares how hard you hit!!!!?????

We have these lovely things called microphones. I am a much louder drummer than Bonzo (with the right amount of amps and speakers).

To wit:

Hitting hard is actually BAD for your technique and speed.

Hitting hard breaks stuff and causes distortion.

Hitting hard makes you tired.

Hitting hard is non-musical.

Playing drums is good. Hitting drums is bad. I tell all my students this. You can only hit a drum or cymbal so hard before it gets its max volume. Hitting it any harder produces no more volume, just ugly distorted awful sounds.

1. Quads, as I understand them, are a combination of all four limbs in a pattern. It's like doing a single-stroke roll, but using all four limbs before the 1st one hits again. Double kick players use it a lot for fast fills. Just an example would be hands on the floor tom and feet on a double kick setup, playing: RH, LH, RF, LF, repeat. This done at quarter=160 sounds "impressive" and like you have chops, but it's very simple to work up in a short amount of time.

2. Who cares about hitting hard? The audience probably. It's fun to watch "expressive" drummers play (big swings, stick twirls, etc...), especially in a giant venue when you're watching from the nose-bleed seats and can't really see what's going on up close.

Hitting hard is actually BAD for your technique and speed (it's actually NOT. It depends on your goals and playing style/genre...Tony Williams and Elvin Jones hit plenty hard)

Hitting hard breaks stuff and causes distortion. (not if you employ the proper techniques)

Hitting hard makes you tired. (not if you have worked up to it and are used to it...like running a marathon)

Hitting hard is non-musical. (it's an expressive gesture, and music is an art created in the moment. Appreciation of music is also highly subjective, so what's "musical" to one might not be musical to another, and vice-versa).


Just so you know, I don't "hit hard" or play loud. I agree with you on all of these points, but I don't think we should use a drum forum to call some people's treasure "trash". We all have opinions, and we I think we should use them to build each other up, not tear each other down...
 
I'm not particularly interested in copying his technique but I do find it intriguing regarding how he did it. Did he use heel-toe, heel up or did he just have freakishly good twitch muscles?
Any ideas?
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¬
He had some talent......something that thousands of hours of practice won't create.
 
Bonham didn't follow any prescribed "technique" such as heel-toe or slide, he did what felt right, and, in order to augment his already well-endowed foot strength and speed, he practiced to get faster. It's a time-tested technique, if you play singles with your right hand for two-minutes straight, 10 times a day, and increase the tempo every day, your right hand will get faster.
 
Bonham didn't follow any prescribed "technique" such as heel-toe or slide, he did what felt right, and, in order to augment his already well-endowed foot strength and speed, he practiced to get faster. It's a time-tested technique, if you play singles with your right hand for two-minutes straight, 10 times a day, and increase the tempo every day, your right hand will get faster.

Whenever I want to play some Bonham riffs such as in my time of dying or good times bad times, I do it heel down. I was taught to play that way, and although heel up was acknowledged by my tutor as a way to get volume, he discouraged it as improper. So because he said that, and I believed it, I was pretty confident I'd be ok in most situations as I was playing the way everyone else was! So when I ran into difficulty copying those songs, my attention was drawn to the tension of the head and springs. I just played around with them and I got over the problems. It is instructive to me to go back to my mindset 23 years ago and trust my abilities and make the drum kit work for me by tuning it in a way that feels best. I would also experiment with toe stops, digging my toes into them , then taking them off and playing into the ball of my foot, heel down. So maybe we should worry less about bass drum techniques and more about the details of tuning and feel? I can understand why we slacken the batter head for low notes, but why not slacken the front head instead and leave the batter at a tension which is going to help rather than hinder?!
 
I can play the Bonham triplets heel down as well as Heel/ toe. Yes Heel / Toe gives me more volume but i'm more comfortable playing heel down. My point is use whatever technique works for you. Just because Bonham used a certain technique or not is not the issue.
 
I can play the Bonham triplets heel down as well as Heel/ toe. Yes Heel / Toe gives me more volume but i'm more comfortable playing heel down. My point is use whatever technique works for you. Just because Bonham used a certain technique or not is not the issue.

Ok I am agreeing with you. I'm also considering the notion of less attention to foot techniques and more to the set up of the drum as a way of making playing this stuff more comfortable. Jim
 
Come on...ANY drummer can play the Bonham triplets.
I'm not here to bring Bonzo down, but really, he was just known for that because he actually did it, but ANYONE can do it, he really wasn't very fast by today's standards.
What I like about Bonham is his innovative grooves, compared to someone like Paice (whom I fall asleep listening to, as he has like...one or two barely original grooves). Good Times Bad Times, Fool in the Rain, When the Levee Breaks, that intro to The Rover, Black Dog, brushes on The Rain Song, and so on.
As for the specific topic, I don't know, you can play at that speed with any usual way you play your bass drum, doesn't require any special technique. If you can't do it like you normally play your abss drum, just keep practicing, and it'll come.


Fox.
 
sorry am new to this forum and not sure who is replying to who - Fox are you replying to me? - have no problem playing them - just out of interest, talking out loud really, about something I forgot about from years back (tuning/ response, less attention to technique).
 
sorry am new to this forum and not sure who is replying to who - Fox are you replying to me? - have no problem playing them - just out of interest, talking out loud really, about something I forgot about from years back (tuning/ response, less attention to technique).

No, no, I would had quoted you otherwise. I was just generally responding to the title of the thread. It sounds like a "Oh my! How did he do it so fast?!" It may just as well truly be a question on how he specifically did it, and not because it was fast. I am very against how some of these musicians are idolized for stuff that isn't really what's important about them.


Fox.
 
Took a while but I found them. Now, if I can load them right....
the intro to Good Times...









And the busy part that everyone likes to work at...
 

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Of course I can't do it right...anyway, here's the simpler intro to get you started...
There are several ways to "count" this especially if you're first starting out on this, but I learned to count it; 1tata &tata 2tata &tata 3tata &tata 4tata &tata. In this example, play eighth note cowbell with your right hand, hihat with left foot, snare on 2&4, and play EVERYTHING ELSE on your bass drum. Seriously, all notes marked "tata" plus the one and three will be your bass. Difficult passage to be sure but if you start slowly and play evenly, you can have the basics of this mechanics down. Then it's just a matter of building up your stamina and speed. Best of luck. BTW...lots of youtube vids demonstrating this lick.
 

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