Zoom R16 - 8 tracks of 24/96? Seriously?

K

KamaK

Platinum Member
Tonight I was futzing around with Cubase LE 7 on my Zoom R16.

I set the project precision and sample rate to 24bit@96khz

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I set the interface to 96khz

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And I recorded 8 tracks simultaneously..... With ~10ms latency!? This is the greatest cheap POS DAW I've ever owned!

While I get visual confirmation on the sample rate (96 kHz is displayed on the Zoom LCD) how do I go about confirming that the audio received by Cubase really has 24 bits of precision, and isn't simply a 16bit wav in a 24bit project?
 
Isn't the bit rate determined by the interface? I don't think for $399 at 8 tracks simultaneously that the R16 is a true 24/96 machine. That doesn't make any economic sense considering what people will pay for a real 24/96 device, no?

I think your computer is set to record that, but the Zoom can't be sending that. I would think the Zoom would tell you what bitrate it's recording at?
 
From a quick look at the specs, it seems the Zoom will record only in 44.1/16, but the converters will do 24/96 so if you're going into Cubase, you get the higher specs.
I might be wrong because I just did a quick look, but that seems to be what's happening.
 
Wally Young said:
From a quick look at the specs, it seems the Zoom will record only in 44.1/16, but the converters will do 24/96 so if you're going into Cubase, you get the higher specs.
I might be wrong because I just did a quick look, but that seems to be what's happening.
Click to expand...

You can do higher bit and sample rates ONLY if you're recording via USB to an external computer. Which software you use should not matter if it supports the higher rates. However, when recording to the Zoom's on board memory, you're limited to 44/16.
 
Matt Bo Eder said:
Isn't the bit rate determined by the interface? I don't think for $399 at 8 tracks simultaneously that the R16 is a true 24/96 machine. That doesn't make any economic sense considering what people will pay for a real 24/96 device, no?

I think your computer is set to record that, but the Zoom can't be sending that. I would think the Zoom would tell you what bitrate it's recording at?
Click to expand...

It is looking more and more like the R16 can really do 8 simultaneous tracks when recording 24/96 when used as a USB interface. And that USB latency doesn't suffer beyond the 10ms mark. Wowzers, this changes a lot for me. The only thing you lose is the R16's internal effects DSP (44.1 only), which I don't really use from my DAW.

I was under the impression that it was like many other interfaces where you can do 8 tracks at 16/44.1, but get weasel'ed down to 2 simultaneous tracks at 24/96.

The down side is that I now have to spend $200 on Logic.

Still shocked that this little $350 POS can actually be used as a real interface.
 
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I don't know what any of this stuff means but, my R16 works great!

All electronic gear is a gamble for me and I got lucky on this one :)
 
A reduction in total tracks at a higher sampling rate and bit depth is completely normal. The amount of processing that the equipment has to do is significantly more, hence it can do fewer tracks. Remember that when you're using an interface, it is the interface itself that is doing all of the audio processing prior to entering the DAW.

Case in point - I switched our Tascam DM-4800 over to 96K from 44.1K yesterday (for the sake of it) and the total tracks appearing into the DAW went from 24 to 16 - still more than adequate. I only noticed when I wanted to use track 24 (for boring reasons).

KamaK - I'm not surprised the Zoom can do 24/96. It's of dubious benefit but most devices will quite happily do it. I think that even my interface does it. Not so sure about my surround amp though (very old, I use an optical input).
 
New Tricks said:
I don't know what any of this stuff means but
Click to expand...

In a nutshell,

Doubling the sample rate (44.1 vs 48 vs 96) enables you to play with the speed of a track without it sounding horrible. Imagine filming at 60 FPS rather than 30FPS and slowing it down to half speed..

Increasing the precision (16 vs 24) is useful when summing (mixing a bunch of tracks together), and if you're going to run a track through a long chain.

44.1/16 is perfect for distribution, because consumers aren't going to be doing any of those things... All they're doing is listening, with the possible exceptions of sampling and remixing.

There are some other benefits to 24/96, but the relevancy to guys that record in their basement is minimal. It does help when you hand your tracks over to a pro for mixing/mastering though.
 
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KamaK said:
In a nutshell,

Doubling the sample rate (44.1 vs 48 vs 96) enables you to play with the speed of a track without it sounding horrible. Imagine filming at 60 FPS rather than 30FPS and slowing it down to half speed..

Increasing the precision (16 vs 24) is useful when summing (mixing a bunch of tracks together), and if you're going to run a track through a long chain.

44.1/16 is perfect for distribution, because consumers aren't going to be doing any of those things... All they're doing is listening, with the possible exceptions of sampling and remixing.

There are some other benefits to 24/96, but the relevancy to guys that record in their basement is minimal. It does help when you hand your tracks over to a pro for mixing/mastering though.
Click to expand...



I don't know what any of this stuff means but, my R16 works great! :)
 
What makes Cubase at $300 more exceptional than Reaper at $60?
Does it have better effect plugins? Workflow presets?
 
Wally Young said:
What makes Cubase at $300 more exceptional than Reaper at $60?
Does it have better effect plugins? Workflow presets?
Click to expand...

Realistically, cubase has full mix/master facilities. Reaper barely has the functionality of Garageband.

I personally dislike the Cubase UI and workflow, and the fact that it can only use one audio device at a time.. it is not able to record from the R16 inputs while playing back on my iMac's speakers. This issue alone excludes me from being able to use it in a meaningful/productive manner. Don't get me started with the licenseware...

You can probably get a Cubase LE code for free if you want to try it out, though I'd hate to see someone suffer it.
 
I just picked up an R24. I look forward to getting off the computer. I bought a handful of old, cheap mics and want to experiment with some craptacular drum sounds!
 
KamaK said:
Realistically, cubase has full mix/master facilities. Reaper barely has the functionality of Garageband.
Click to expand...

Got to disagree here. Completely disagree. I respect your knowledge in these matters, however.

In terms of built-in plugins, Reaper does lag behind somewhat. It comes with a usable suite of basics but I'll admit that some of them are a little rough around the edges.

Otherwise, it has completely full mix and editing capability, MIDI sequencing and its track routing options are absolutely top class. There's absolutely no reason why you couldn't use Reaper for professional work.

I went from Logic to Reaper (and I use Logic at work and will soon be using Pro Tools again at work) and I've never lacked for capability in Reaper.
 
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Gel-Sol said:
I just picked up an R24. I look forward to getting off the computer. I bought a handful of old, cheap mics and want to experiment with some craptacular drum sounds!
Click to expand...

Good score! I love my R24. The ability to just plug in and record is so handy.
 
KamaK said:
Still shocked that this little $350 POS can actually be used as a real interface.
Click to expand...

Not all AD converters that can handle 24/96 are created equally. If you've ever used a high end Apogee, the difference is remarkable, even at 44.1/16. Like lifting a bed sheet from over your speakers (assuming you're using decent mics and mic preamps to begin with).
 
brentcn said:
Not all AD converters that can handle 24/96 are created equally. If you've ever used a high end Apogee, the difference is remarkable, even at 44.1/16. Like lifting a bed sheet from over your speakers (assuming you're using decent mics and mic preamps to begin with).
Click to expand...

Indeed. The difference between a $300 interface (Zoom) and a $3000 interface (Apogee/UA/etc) will be quite profound. To my ears, the main benefit comes from the preamp. If I had to say something nice about the Zoom preamps, it is that they are quiet (noise free), so the result is usable with a bit of EQ. If I had to point out their main drawback, it would be that they are easy to peak.

It's hard to judge the AD converter when the weak link is the preamp... I'd have to attach an outboard preamp in order to hear the difference.



@BFY - I didn't mean to come off as saying that Reaper is a POS. I consider it to be the Grargeband of Windows.
 
Thing is KamaK, I've got a lot of experience with GarageBand, Logic, Reaper and a bit of Pro Tools (and Cubase a long, long time ago) all on the Mac platform (aside from Cubase) and I've never once thought Reaper was anything like Garageband. Garageband is surprisingly good - but I'd definitely punt Reaper up into the same category as any of the 'full' releases. I do some pretty odd stuff in my DAW software and I've never had an issue with functionality and results.

I wouldn't say it's 'good for the money', I'd say it's 'good' full stop. Regardless of price. Maybe we use it for different things and have different experiences. Personally, I use a lot of routing and Reaper does that to perfection.
 
I've just received email confirmation from Zoom that the indeed works @ 96khz for all 8 tracks when used as an interface. I did not get confirmation on the precision though...

What's a quick way to see if a 24bit wav file contains >=16bits of actual precision? I assume that the first 8 bits of data will be empty if I look at it in a raw editor... Will try to figure it out.

EDIT: Found it. Will try tonight.
EDIT2: I can only confirm that the contain 24bit of actual data. Whether the upper 8 bits originated from the R16 or not.. I can't answer..

BacteriumFendYoke said:
I wouldn't say it's 'good for the money', I'd say it's 'good' full stop. Regardless of price.
Click to expand...

Indeed.
 
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Got my R16 about 3 years ago now and it's never dropped a beat, great piece of kit. Portable and simple enough to record gigs and rehearsals, and been making some decent band demos (running into Cubase Pro) that to my ears are CD quality, even at 'only' 44.1k/16bit. So simple to use too.
 
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