Question to pro drummers - memory?

H

haroldo_psf

Senior Member
I know this is probably a studid question, but I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that pro drummers can play a live concert with 15 or 20 songs and remember every single groove, fill, and transition?

The question came after I started to learn, about 5 months ago. I have this routine where I will pick a song, practice it for a whole week, and then play it (i.e. butcher) for my wife while we have coffee every saturday morning ( e-kit, easy on the ears :) ).

The thing is, even after I've practiced the same song for weeks, if I don't play it for a week or so, I have to "re-learn" it so some extent, practice it again over and over until I get to the point where I was before I stopped playing it.

Of course, I am not by any means putting myself and a pro drummer not even in the same planet.

What amazes me is that drummers that compose these intricate and complicated songs like Gavin Harrison and Neil Peart can play 3 hour long gigs and sound just like in their records? How do they remember all their songs? Do they go and "re-learn" their own songs before a tour? Is this how it's done? Do they ever forget one little detail in that one fill? There has to be something they can't remember, no? Is it humanly possible?

I see singers forgetting the words to songs frequently (American Idol :), for example...And in my mind, drumming is a much more complex activity than singing (not that I know how to sing, but that's how it seems to be from an ignorant perspective)

I find it amazing.
 
haroldo_psf said:
I know this is probably a studid question, but I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that pro drummers can play a live concert with 15 or 20 songs and remember every single groove, fill, and transition?

The question came after I started to learn, about 5 months ago. I have this routine where I will pick a song, practice it for a whole week, and then play it (i.e. butcher) for my wife while we have coffee ( e-kit, easy on the ears :) ).

The thing is, even after I've practiced the same song for weeks, if I don't play it for a week or so, I have to "re-learn" it so some extent, practice it again over and over until I get to the point where I was before I stopped playing it.

Of course, I am not by any means putting myself and a pro drummer not even in the same planet.

What amazes me is that drummers that compose these intricate and complicated songs like Gavin Harrison and Neil Peart can play 3 hour long gigs and sound just like in their records? How do they remember all their songs? Do they go and "re-learn" their own songs before a tour? Is this how it's done? Do they ever forget one little detail in that one fill? There has to be something they can't remember, no? Is it humanly possible?

I find it amazing.
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I can't speak to this as a drummer, but I played guitar in HS (in a lot of original bands). imo, this gets A LOT easier when they're songs you've written yourself. the act of writting/arranging a song, then endlessly practicing it with the other guys really burns it into your brain, plus it's more yours than a cover you sit down and learn.
 
I certainly struggled with learning songs when I was a young drummer.

But like many things, it gets easier with time. Most rock songs are built around patterns of 8 and 16 bar phrases. Once you start realizing the bigger picture, it gets easier to remember the details.

Many bands I've been in, we would rehearse 3 times a week, and play our set twice per rehearsal. After a while, the songs get so ingrained in my brain, it would be impossible to forget them.

For Neil Peart, he puts in a ton of rehearsal before a tour. He spends hours up hours rehearings by himself to re-familiarize himself with all the songs. Then they have several weeks of full band rehearsal. Then they move to pre-production when the band rehearses with the lighting and such as if the audience is already there. And for people who are that level, it's all they do. They're not distracted by going to a day job, because it is their job. They can, and do, spend 8 to 10 hours a day doing nothing but rehearsing the songs.

As Mark Zonder says, "it's not the years, it's the hours."

And some people just have better memories. Buddy Rich was said to be able remember every detail of a song after hearing it just once.
 
DrumEatDrum said:
I certainly struggled with learning songs when I was a young drummer.

But like many things, it gets easier with time. Most rock songs are built around patterns of 8 and 16 bar phrases. Once you start realizing the bigger picture, it gets easier to remember the details.

Many bands I've been in, we would rehearse 3 times a week, and play our set twice per rehearsal. After a while, the songs get so ingrained in my brain, it would be impossible to forget them.

For Neil Peart, he puts in a ton of rehearsal before a tour. He spends hours up hours rehearings by himself to re-familiarize himself with all the songs. Then they have several weeks of full band rehearsal. Then they move to pre-production when the band rehearses with the lighting and such as if the audience is already there. And for people who are that level, it's all they do. They're not distracted by going to a day job, because it is their job. They can, and do, spend 8 to 10 hours a day doing nothing but rehearsing the songs.

As Mark Zonder says, "it's not the years, it's the hours."

And some people just have better memories. Buddy Rich was said to be able remember every detail of a song after hearing it just once.
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Good post, man. It seems more human after this explanation. Sometimes I forget that it is their jobs and it's all they do.
 
As mentioned, once you're familiar enough with something, it's just there. Sometimes forever. I can sit down and play something I haven't played in 10 or 15 years, and it comes right back. In fact, the harder I think about it - overthinking - the tougher it can be to play. I just have to let it flow and muscle memory takes over. Doesn't sem to matter if it's a song I created a part for, or a cover.

Bermuda
 
I'm with you really.

On bass I had 10 days to learn 30 songs including say a Jamiriquai funk song, which took ages on its own. It nearly killed me. But making some very short notes for each song - say a page of A5, with tiny music extracts of key grooves plus the whole AABAB type song structure really helped me.

It does get easier with time because certain things become normal that weren't before.

Licensed Taxi drivers in London have to learn the entire street index of London. This is a monumental task but it is said that the memory part of the brain is a muscle and if you exercise it enough then it will develop. So start now!

Maybe there's a difference between playing along and learning. You should perhaps start by just listening to the song. Work out the Intro, how many verses, where the chorus comes in, where there are dynamics/accents etc. Then and only then should you start to play it. Then put the intro on a loop and just do that. Do the song in stages and then you will be using a lot more memory when you play.

I wish I took my own advice!

Peace
Davo
 
I'm in a cover band and we have over 50 songs some pretty simple some are real tough..I find spending an hour or so writing a song out just once puts it in a file in my brain that I can retrieve for about 30-60 days..practice, practice, practice.. we try to play 20-30 songs per practice....its when we haven't played a song in a couple months that it can be a little challenging..this just happened with a real easy drumming song Dead or Alive by Bon Jovi..we havent played it in over 2-3 months...usually the answer here is to play it 2 times and the second time it falls in place. Remember as was said with a full time pro this is there job so 8-12 per day can be spent "working"
 
I agree with the others it gets easier after a while - also you could work on a system for yourself to remember. Maybe a simple notesystem.

If you dont have a lot of time to learn a lot of songs you have cut it down to the essentials.
And write that down. as an example

1 - basic groove (if you dont read music, make your own system)
2 - tempo
3 - some crucial points in the song - could be a certain fill or solo or some accents you have to play
4 - maybe some notes to yourself - could be the song reminds you of some other song you know well, so you could write "...the song that reminds me of Jeff Porcaro in Rosanna"

You have to cut it down to the 4-5 basic things that is essential for the song and write that down so you can write it in 2-3 lines. Then trust yourself that you can fill in the blanks by not using your brain to remember, but your feeling.

Hope this helps and good luck

Morten
 
I admit to cheating a little (eidetic memory), but what I do may work for somebody else, too: I don't memorize the drum part, I memorize the entire song. I actually try to hear the entire song playing back in my head. Occasionally I'll be humming along if there's no microphones. I've found it much easier to play the songs this way. This helps with much more complex songs, because very often the drum part becomes melodic and cues off another part - guitar, keys, vocals, bass, etc. Rehearsing along with the music, you should be listening to all the parts, not just concentrating on the drum parts, and understanding the phrasing and vocal direction, among other things.

On most of the songs in my band's repertoire, I have "must-do" parts of the song that everyone would miss if I didn't do. The singer/songwriter who leads the band knows what he wants in certain parts of each song. But by and large I am left to experiment a bit live, and he has encouraged me to break away from what the previous drummer played on the last CD. So I don't fret about too many of the fills, so long as I capture the flavor and the feel of the song. And sometimes we change that flavor slightly from the way it was on the CD. Hey, they're his songs.
 
I found that writing out the arrangement, (intro, verse, verse, chorus, lead, bridge chorus, verse, ending)...to any song I was trying to learn was indispensable in retaining that song. It's something about seeing the arrangement with my eyes that really cements it in my brain, and a photographic memory doesn't hurt either.
Once I write it out, I ususally don't ever have to refer back to it, but I do definitely have to write it out.
If only I could make my musical memory apply to the non musical parts of my life, they seem to operate in different regions of my brain.

Actually anything I write down I retain, so that's my trick. Memorizing the arrangement like the sample outlined above is much easier than trying to remember all the grooves. The grooves just get recalled automatically, as long as I know when the transitions are coming. If it's a new song I never heard before, I will write notes on my arrangement sheet as to what kind of groove the song has....4 on the floor, shuffle, alternating bass drum pattern....there might be tempo notes, or anything else peculiar to that song.

So my advice, write out the arrangement and memorize the order of the arrangement. I find that in learning songs this way, I am able to correct the other players if they go to the wrong part. Somebody has to know the arrangement front to back so I make sure it's me.
 
I was going to ask a question but I forgot what it was.........

Oh, yes. Do you try to recreate each groove and fill exactly, note for note, or do you just play what works the best?
 
Hello, first off i will say this, Everyone has their own way of remembering what goes into a number with regard to the drum parts. The way that i have done this for approx 26 years is to actually memorise the whole song from front to back. This in my humble opinion is the only way of knowing what to play and when to play it plus it allows you more freedom and expression because you actually know the song and while you are playing it you are totally emersed in it and 100 percent committed to the music which makes things alot easier for the other musicians in the band to play with you as well, i also find that it takes the performance to a whole new level and allows the band to really make an event and the audience really appreciates that as well because they can see that you are there to entertain them.
 
I read in Modern Drummer once that if you are paid to play, then you are a pro.

I'm in a cover band and we have have a set list that's well over a couple hundred songs and after a hear the first few bars or someone hums it to me, it all comes back. BUT.....I don't do them the same way, beat for beat, note for note. None of the other band members do.

We may have to carry the song out longer, due to more folks getting up and dancing for example, and that requires us to change the arrangement and improvise in some parts.

As live musicians, why play a cover song or original, the same way every time? That's what makes live bands, in my opinion, more enjoyable than someone spinning CDs. If you do the song just like it's recorded......... then you may as well play the recorded version.

That's my opinion anyway. Just enjoy the music.
 
Davo-London said:
<snip>........ Then put the intro on a loop ..........<snip>
Peace
Davo
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How do I do that ? (sorry, taking a tangent..)

Also, just to clarify.. When you guys say I should write down the groove and arrangements, etc, do you meant I should transcribe the songs in drum notation?
 
ddrumman2004 said:
I read in Modern Drummer once that if you are paid to play, then you are a pro.

I'm in a cover band and we have have a set list that's well over a couple hundred songs and after a hear the first few bars or someone hums it to me, it all comes back. BUT.....I don't do them the same way, beat for beat, note for note. None of the other band members do.

We may have to carry the song out longer, due to more folks getting up and dancing for example, and that requires us to change the arrangement and improvise in some parts.

As live musicians, why play a cover song or original, the same way every time? That's what makes live bands, in my opinion, more enjoyable than someone spinning CDs. If you do the song just like it's recorded......... then you may as well play the recorded version.

That's my opinion anyway. Just enjoy the music.
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I agree totally, once you and your band know the song then you can do whatever you like with it which is great and it keeps it interesting for everyone too!
 
haroldo_psf said:
How do I do that ? (sorry, taking a tangent..)

Also, just to clarify.. When you guys say I should write down the groove and arrangements, etc, do you meant I should transcribe the songs in drum notation?
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I do this too when learning stuff. It's great to just loop a chorus or whatever over-and-over until you get comfortable instead of playing through the whole song every time.

The way i do it is to use Audacity (free/open-source .wav editor). Load the song up (with the correct plugins, mp3s will work too), and use the "Label" feature to mark out the sections of the song (basically just move the cursor when you want it and hit Ctrl-B and give it a name), then select a section and hit Shift-Spacebar ("Loop Play"). I usually will put and extra 5-10 second buffer before and after the section to give myself time to come in properly.

You can save the labels for a song to a text file too, so you can load your labels back up in later practice sessions.
 
larryace said:
I found that writing out the arrangement, (intro, verse, verse, chorus, lead, bridge chorus, verse, ending)...to any song I was trying to learn was indispensable in retaining that song. It's something about seeing the arrangement with my eyes that really cements it in my brain,
Click to expand...

I do this too when learning a new song.

I write out all the bar counts, and then I'll just memorize what that picture looks like. Then refer to the "picture" in my head of where I am in the song.
 
haroldo_psf said:
Also, just to clarify.. When you guys say I should write down the groove and arrangements, etc, do you meant I should transcribe the songs in drum notation?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, although you can.

The arrangement is just the number of bars for each section of a song.

A typical pop/rock song would look something like:

Song name
Description of basic beat (i.e. medium rock feel) (maybe the BPM is notated)

Intro: 4
Verse: 8 + 8
Chorus: 8 +8
Verse: 8 + 8
Chorus: 8 + 8
Bridge: 8
Chorus: 8
Outro: 8 + 8 + 8

And around that, you might add bits of notation to specify specific grooves, fills, accents, or other notes.

The important part is to know the patterns of the chord changes (even though we don't need to know the actual chords) and where the singer is going to be switching between verses and chorus. Once you have this down, remembering where to put what fill becomes a 100 times easier.
 
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