Teaching with songs: moral issues

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Big_Philly

Guest
Hey everyone,
I teach an 11-yr old girl to play drums. I give her technique lessons as well as having her play along to songs, which is working great so far. But now she wants to play along to a song with lyrics that I am not too fond of.

Here's a part of the lyrics, translated to English (original in Dutch):

You look at me,
and I look back at you
and before I even realise,
my hands get sweaty

You walk to me,
and ask me what I would like to drink.
I say I wish you'd
take me in your arms for a while.

...
chorus:
Will you stay with me tonight,
will I see you at breakfast?
what are your fantasies
when you look at me?
Will you come along with me?
----

And so on. Now, I may be a little conservative about this but I am wondering whether or not I should inform her parents about this. I don't know if my pupil knows what's really going on in that song either. So my question is mainly at those of you who have children: would you want to stimulate your 11-yr old daughter to listen to that?
 
Don't tell her you dont like the song because of the lyrics, tell her the song is just a bad example of drumming and offer up a few different songs that have better beats!
 
I teach voice to kids as well as drums. Back in ten years ago, I didn't know who Brittany Spears was, but then I found out. I was teaching that to 8-10 because that's what they wanted to learn. Look at Rock Band, even though it is for teenagers. Most of those song are pretty rough. Many have the F word in it. I wish I were in a situation where I could teach and the kids were just do what I say. But in the real world, you have to cater to their whims.
 
Hey everyone,
I teach an 11-yr old girl to play drums. I give her technique lessons as well as having her play along to songs, which is working great so far. But now she wants to play along to a song with lyrics that I am not too fond of.

Here's a part of the lyrics, translated to English (original in Dutch):

You look at me,
and I look back at you
and before I even realise,
my hands get sweaty

You walk to me,
and ask me what I would like to drink.
I say I wish you'd
take me in your arms for a while.

...
chorus:
Will you stay with me tonight,
will I see you at breakfast?
what are your fantasies
when you look at me?
Will you come along with me?
----

And so on. Now, I may be a little conservative about this but I am wondering whether or not I should inform her parents about this. I don't know if my pupil knows what's really going on in that song either. So my question is mainly at those of you who have children: would you want to stimulate your 11-yr old daughter to listen to that?

Background: I've been a teacher for 30 years, and I have a 15 year-old son.

That's fairly tame as contemporary lyrics go, as I'm sure you know. Still, you are under no obligation to use materials in lessons you deem inappropriate for her age.

Tell her the truth--you don't think the song is appropriate for her age group and that she should pick another one. You're the teacher, you are in charge of what lesson materials to use.

No need to tell the parents: that's none of your business. If the child were showing self-destructive behavior or evidence of abuse or drug use, that's one thing, but a song? No.

As it happens, my wife and I very carefully regulated our son's media consumption until he was around 12 or so. We still monitor it insofar as we can, and discuss things with him should we feel he needs a counter-balance to things he's exposed to. He was never allowed free access to TV 24/7, nor is he allowed one in his room still. It's very hard these days to raise a G-rated kid in an R-rated world--it requires vigilence. At the same time, while I wish more parents would let their kids be kids for longer than is usual these days, it's none of my business if they don't. But your teaching studio is your preserve, and you're entitled to run it any way you want.


Don't tell her you dont like the song because of the lyrics, tell her the song is just a bad example of drumming and offer up a few different songs that have better beats!

Lying to your students is rarely a good idea. They're smarter than you think. What happens with the next song, and the one after that? Do they all have bad drumming?
 
It seems rather prudish of you to take offense to what are, relative to what constitutes pop music today, rather tame and merely suggestive lyrics. I'd doubt very much that she's paying attention to the lyrics, and it would be your role to examine the drums/instrumentation. I guess there's little harm in consulting the parents, although your rock n' roll credibility is out the window ;D
Seems that sex is the bedrock of popular music, it's explicitness is, on principle, irrelevant.
 
Kids (most adults too) don't think about what song lyrics mean, they just want to play that song with the catchy chorus that their friends like. Besides, you don't have to promote, condemn, or even acknowledge the song's message, you're only showing her how to play the drum part.
 
I don't think I understood any of the sexual innuendo in songs I heard and liked at age 11.
 
It seems rather prudish of you to take offense to what are, relative to what constitutes pop music today, rather tame and merely suggestive lyrics.
It's certainly not a drum teachers place to be thinking it IS alright. What if the parents don't know? Will they then sue YOU for playing lewd songs with their 11 year old daughter? Better to be safe than sorry.

It there a way to remove the vocals electronically, to "hear the drums better"? Might be a good middle ground.
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__________________
Most respect the badge, but all fear the drum.
 
Thank you all for the replies. I think I should just let it be, like most of you suggest. I agree, these lyrics aren't nearly as offensive as some stuff you hear these days, and I am not personally offended (though my reply would be a plain and simple no if a woman was hitting on me the way the singer of the song I was referring to describes - if it's that easy she probably has an STD and you should back off, right?). My problem was purely that I didn't want to have a bad influence on her. But she came up with the song herself so I guess it's OK - I am definitely not a parent.

If it were my own teaching studio things might be different but I teach at their house so it's their rules.

It seems rather prudish of you to take offense to what are, relative to what constitutes pop music today, rather tame and merely suggestive lyrics.

This made me laugh (in a good way). Reading it back it does sound a little prudish. But as I stated above, I myself don't have much of a problem with that song. I do have a problem with the morals it might inspire in people; I really am a bit conservative when it comes to sexual morality.

What if the parents don't know? Will they then sue YOU for playing lewd songs with their 11 year old daughter?

No, I don't think it is something you could be sued for in the Netherlands and it's really not like them to go so far.
 
My lil cousin knows most of 50 cents lyrics....not saying its good or bad...
Just stating the way it is...

IMO those lyrics are really really tame....
Thats just me....I'm not knocking your concerns cause we are all a product of our enviroment....

Geez my dad used to play Richard Prior records in the house with all his buddies while we(the kids) were playing around....I heard it all....
 
It's certainly not a drum teachers place to be thinking it IS alright. What if the parents don't know? Will they then sue YOU for playing lewd songs with their 11 year old daughter? Better to be safe than sorry.

It there a way to remove the vocals electronically, to "hear the drums better"? Might be a good middle ground.
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__________________
Most respect the badge, but all fear the drum.


If I got the feeling that the parents were so sensitive as to take legal action against me then i'd dump the child without hesitation.
 
It seems rather prudish of you to take offense to what are, relative to what constitutes pop music today, rather tame and merely suggestive lyrics. I'd doubt very much that she's paying attention to the lyrics, and it would be your role to examine the drums/instrumentation. I guess there's little harm in consulting the parents, although your rock n' roll credibility is out the window ;D
Seems that sex is the bedrock of popular music, it's explicitness is, on principle, irrelevant.

What adults expose kids to is a serious issue. I am reluctant to justify something because "it's a lot worse elsewhere." Wrong is wrong - perhaps by degrees, but still wrong.

If you are uncomfortable with teaching this to an 11-year-old, I'd tell her you don't approve of the lyrics and you'd like to work with another song. No one should teach material they are not comfortable with, for whatever reasons.
 
... I myself don't have much of a problem with that song. I do have a problem with the morals it might inspire in people; I really am a bit conservative when it comes to sexual morality. ...

As a father of three, I can relate. I shield my younger two from some the harder stuff I listen to. I also have a 16-year-old daughter who has an iPod and listens to whatever the hell she wants. I can't lecture her because she knows I listen to metal and she likes some of it. She is old enough that she has a mind of her own and thinks for herself. And I know what I was listening to at her age.

But it's awful to think of yourself as a corruption of the youth. Your initial question shows that you have some scruples, and that's not a bad thing.

It's a tough call. Follow your heart.
 
I agree with points on both sides.
As a Drum teacher, I say this. Teach the student what they want to learn. It's the partents job to govern what the child listens to. If the parents don't have a problem with the musical content, then your personal views, religious, political and so on, take a back seat.
 
What adults expose kids to is a serious issue. I am reluctant to justify something because "it's a lot worse elsewhere." Wrong is wrong - perhaps by degrees, but still wrong.

If you are uncomfortable with teaching this to an 11-year-old, I'd tell her you don't approve of the lyrics and you'd like to work with another song. No one should teach material they are not comfortable with, for whatever reasons.

It seems to me that making it full time as a drum teacher is a tricky business; if you're so overwhelmed by custom that you can be that selective then you're doing something right. In the world of free market economics, the customer is always right...

Anyway, as most kids would testify, parents and teachers are only so effective as sensors. I was listening to Rage Against The MAchine's debut album soon after it was released at the age of 11 and loving it, I just had to be careful. If you let a kid use the internet or watch MTV unsupervised you've lost the battle.
 
I agree with points on both sides.
As a Drum teacher, I say this. Teach the student what they want to learn. It's the partents job to govern what the child listens to. If the parents don't have a problem with the musical content, then your personal views, religious, political and so on, take a back seat.

With all due respect, this is nonsense. No one has suggested that a drum teacher "govern" what the child listens to. The subject is what materials the teacher uses to teach the student.

Are you saying that should a student bring in a song with blatantly racist or misogynist lyrics, "your personal views, religious, political, and so on, [should] take a back seat"?

Not in my studio.

I decide what to teach, and I accomodate students' wishes in this regard all the time--if the materials they suggest will accomplish the goals I have set for the student. At the same time, I'd have no problem at all with saying, "I won't teach you that song, it's disgusting. If you can't deal with that, get another teacher."

The example given was pretty mild, but extend your "back seat" thinking to the most extreme lyrics--there's some truly vile stuff out there, and it doesn't take a religious fanatic to think so--and you have non-judgmentalism run amok.
 
With all that the world is throwing at our youth, we teachers can certainly be positive role models and can influence by example.

When she asked me why I was laughing when I first heard that song, I did mention that I would not be very charmed by a woman being so easy about coming home with me.
I think she got the point.
 
What adults expose kids to is a serious issue. I am reluctant to justify something because "it's a lot worse elsewhere." Wrong is wrong - perhaps by degrees, but still wrong.

If you are uncomfortable with teaching this to an 11-year-old, I'd tell her you don't approve of the lyrics and you'd like to work with another song. No one should teach material they are not comfortable with, for whatever reasons.

I agree with everything said here. Not to start a "moral relativism" argument or anything, but I don't think the issue here is about how mild this song is compared to others. If you're the teacher, you have the right to do lessons according to the principles you live by. It's not a matter of imposing your beliefs on someone else; it's a matter of expecting others to respect your concerns and perspective.

In the world of free market economics, the customer is always right...

That may be the norm in the corporate world. But you're not a CEO - you're a person giving a very personal, one-on-one service to someone else, in which you invest your own experiences and ideas into the other person, and hopefully if you're a good music teacher, you're going to care about many things in addition to the money you're paid.
 
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