Chinese Maple vs. Canadian Maple vs. North American Maple?

I became concerned about this Chinese Maple. lol

Why not get the Birch kits from Sonor? They are cheaper than the Select Force, and Birch is SO hard according to that Janka rating thing (and wood hardness is like...all that matters when picking a kit, dude), I mean, I'm sure the ones with the interior chinese maple will just literally desintegrate into dust in those two years. You REALLY should be concerned.


Fox.
 
Why not get the Birch kits from Sonor? They are cheaper than the Select Force, and Birch is SO hard according to that Janka rating thing (and wood hardness is like...all that matters when picking a kit, dude), I mean, I'm sure the ones with the interior chinese maple will just literally desintegrate into dust in those two years. You REALLY should be concerned.


Fox.
On this page, the hardness of 4 different species of Birch ranges from 760 to 1470. ;)

But, do I sense a bit of sarcasm of some kind? :p
 
Well, I am asking you if you're being sarcastic (that's a question I posted, not a statement). So, now that I know my answer is "yes", I have another question: is there something wrong with being careful about what I spend my money on?
 
According to Wikipedia, there are 129 different varietes of maple and most of them come from Asia. The climate and soil will also affect the density of the wood. I know there are many different kinds of ironwood and my drums are made from one particular type.

Keep in mind that plywood is an engineered wood product, not natural whole wood. The careful selection, precise machine processing and chemistry of adhesive glues will all affect the sound, probably more than the natural whole wood of the original tree.
 
know why?
industry is a LOT bigger in china than the us...
why? cheap and good labour

why do you prefer buying a 100$ us made product, when you could be the exact same product made in china for 50% of the price? you trust the us labour more than the chinese

why? i include my self in this answer, we presume the us labour is better than the chinese, but do we even know how do the chinese do their thing? as far as im concerned, china has earned a good and big name in industry, and thats because of something (prime work)

so, going straight forward into the answer: its just a way to promote a country's industry

maple is maple, steel is steel, coffee is coffee, humans are humans
you might notice a difference, i might not. different point of views : different perspectives. different trust worthiness from the buyer.
 
TC, if the Yamaha's are doing OK, why spend the dough on a new kit now, and spend MORE in 2-3 years for a "top of the line"?

Those Meridians are kinda nice looking, but the ft's have 6 lugs, and the bass drum has 8.
The bass drum wouldn't concern me so much, but 6 lugs on a 16" ft.....
It would seem to me to be harder to keep in tune with less pressure keeping the head in place.

I'd look into a good condition, used A+ kit. You could probably score something a lot better in quality for around the same cost as a new Meridian.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Keep in mind that plywood is an engineered wood product, not natural whole wood. The careful selection, precise machine processing and chemistry of adhesive glues will all affect the sound, probably more than the natural whole wood of the original tree.

This is a key consideration, yet one that takes a long time to make it into these kinds of discussions.

Glues, lacquers, wraps, ply thickness, and number of plies all must factor into the sound as well. Are these factors a larger or smaller part of the drum's overall sound when compared to the source of the actual timbers?

And can one of these factors supersede or compensate for other wood factors? From the way some people talk it's like a sponge vs. a granite table top when comparing Asian maple to American maple, but once either of these woods are sliced into thin wafers, impregnated with glues, bent into cylinders, and baked I wonder how much of the sound we hear is just the wood.

Want to complicate things even more? Think about shell hardware, mounting system, drumhead, muffling, and playing style.

Do these make a bigger or smaller difference in the overall sound of the drum when compared to wood type?
 
Well, I am asking you if you're being sarcastic (that's a question I posted, not a statement). So, now that I know my answer is "yes", I have another question: is there something wrong with being careful about what I spend my money on?

There is nothing wrong with gaining knowledge about a product you are gonna purchase.

Pearsonally I think worrying about what maple on a mid level kit is a bit overkill though.

Why dont you ask how the Mapex M's and the Sonor Force maple sound?.

My Sonor Force 3007 is by far the best sounding kit I have ever had (and I've had high end kits before) and its on par (sound wise) with anything I've ever played.

I just put some Evans EC2's on, tuned it up and I couldnt seem to stop playing my toms because I couldnt believe how freakin awsome they sounded.

I think either the Mapex or the Sonors will more than hold you over for three years.

EC2s007.jpg
 
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Bottom line, the Sonor Select Force (or the Mapex, although I think they have less lugs as KarlCrafton has mentioned) are outstanding drums for their price. It'd be very...well, stupid, really, to think they are just going to vanish into thin air because they have 2 mm of asian maple inside; it's all a matter of sound. Keep in mind Sonor hands these kits out to upcoming artists who just got their endorsement, so they are clearly not ashamed of these drums. But if you are planning to go high end in just a couple of years, save up a little longer.
Although, in all fairness, what do you want a 2500 dollars+ kit for? Are you currently recording and touring professionally? Even if you are, so are many other artists recording and gigging with intermediate drums; and they don't sound half bad. Invest in nice cymbals and recording equipment. Just what I'd do.


Fox.
 
It is the same thing here in Western Australia.

There is black, white, and brown types of Jarrah. Years of different vegetation caused the root systems to change colour. It is still Jarrah at the end of the day.
 
I really don't know very much about different grades of wood, but what I do know is what sounds good and that to me has to be the common denominator. I did hear once that North American Maple is a very hard maple compared to others and this was told to me by someone that really should know his woods, but I'm just relaying information. My knowledge of wood products goes to the extremes of putting two pieces of wood together with some Elmer's Wood Glue.

Dennis
 
Even though N.A. variety might be slightly harder.. the difference on the janka scale is probably minuscule for the different maple varieties.. I could be wrong.
 
I thought about that, but we don't drink the maple drums, and we don't attemt to make sound with the coffee beans. Flavor and sonic properties are such a different thing.
But where does the OP mention "sonic properties" in any way, shape, or form.​

I have no doubt the trees may taste differently is made into a beverage, but would that affect the sound?
Again, my reference is two where these items are grown. Whether it be a coffee plant or a maple tree, latitude and longitude (geographic location), soil and atmospheric conditions (amounts of sunlight, rainfall, etc.) are going to impact a tree grown in North America vs. Asia.​


Now, see, this makes sense.

I found this table of hardness: http://tinytimbers.com/janka.htm
Which seems to be basically just a reiteration of the information I linked to here: http://www.sizes.com/units/janka.htm
 
But where does the OP mention "sonic properties" in any way, shape, or form.​

Haha....Ok, you got me there Harry.

But this is Drummerworld, not tasty hot beverage world, so I sort of figured it was implied. Silly me.

But yeah...umm.....coffee....yummy....I only buy whole beans and grind it fresh every morning. Tastes better that way. Trader Joe's Dark is pretty good for being rather inexpensive. And anything Sumatra is good.
 
You all are absolutely awesome for putting up with me. Thank you very much!

know why?
industry is a LOT bigger in china than the us...
why? cheap and good labour

why do you prefer buying a 100$ us made product, when you could be the exact same product made in china for 50% of the price? you trust the us labour more than the chinese

why? i include my self in this answer, we presume the us labour is better than the chinese, but do we even know how do the chinese do their thing? as far as im concerned, china has earned a good and big name in industry, and thats because of something (prime work)

so, going straight forward into the answer: its just a way to promote a country's industry

maple is maple, steel is steel, coffee is coffee, humans are humans
you might notice a difference, i might not. different point of views : different perspectives. different trust worthiness from the buyer.
But isn't "Made in China" synonymous with "low quality", "cheap", and other such adjectives?

TC, if the Yamaha's are doing OK, why spend the dough on a new kit now, and spend MORE in 2-3 years for a "top of the line"?
Because I've had these same Stage Customs for about 14 years, and so it's a dream of mine to finally replace them with something that sounds better - even if it means that I have to do it this way.

Plus, if whatever I get sounds better to me than my Stage Customs, then it'll increase my motivation even more to keep saving up for some high-end drums. Otherwise, my motivation/enthusiasm for doing this is likely to fade away (it's one of my negative traits).

But ultimately, I can't stand the thought of keeping these drums for another 2-3 years. I have been sick of them for almost 10 years now (it's not my tuning and head choice either). The only reason why I didn't do this sooner is because I've always had trouble saving up: I could never commit to it long enough. But I discovered very recently that I don't have to commit to it because I can have a monthly automatic transfer from my checking to my savings in the amount I specify - and for as long as I specify at the time I set up the transfer!

Those Meridians are kinda nice looking, but the ft's have 6 lugs, and the bass drum has 8.
The bass drum wouldn't concern me so much, but 6 lugs on a 16" ft.....
It would seem to me to be harder to keep in tune with less pressure keeping the head in place.

I'd look into a good condition, used A+ kit. You could probably score something a lot better in quality for around the same cost as a new Meridian.

Just my 2 cents.
Believe it or not, but the 14" and 16" floor toms have 8 lugs. I know this because I spent about 1½ hours tuning up and getting to know the Meridian Maple Studioease shell pack (which was all set up on the floor at Ellis Drum Shop). But the reason why I remember this is because it was actually a very big deal to me: every time I went back to retune the 14" and 16" floor toms, I just smiled because they had 8 lugs while my 14" tom only has 6 (I don't have a 16") - and I've been tuning my drums for about 14 years now.

Here's a pic: https://www5.corecommerce.com/~forksdrumclo135/images/products/8758.jpg (3504 x 2336)

Plus, if I get a high-end kit now, then where do I go from there? I mean, there's a part of me that wants the experience of upgrading in steps so that I can have an even greater appreciation for top-of-the-line drums (hopefully). Plus, it's hard to find the right words to express just how badly and how quickly I want to get rid of these old Stage Customs.

Not only that, but it'll allow me to relax so that I can carefully and patiently choose some high-end drums to buy once I can afford them (which should be in about 2-3 years). I mean, if I keep my Stage Customs, then I think I'll remain distracted by my intense desire to finally get rid of them.

This is a key consideration, yet one that takes a long time to make it into these kinds of discussions.

Glues, lacquers, wraps, ply thickness, and number of plies all must factor into the sound as well. Are these factors a larger or smaller part of the drum's overall sound when compared to the source of the actual timbers?

And can one of these factors supersede or compensate for other wood factors? From the way some people talk it's like a sponge vs. a granite table top when comparing Asian maple to American maple, but once either of these woods are sliced into thin wafers, impregnated with glues, bent into cylinders, and baked I wonder how much of the sound we hear is just the wood.

Want to complicate things even more? Think about shell hardware, mounting system, drumhead, muffling, and playing style.

Do these make a bigger or smaller difference in the overall sound of the drum when compared to wood type?
Excellent and thought-provoking. Thank you very much!

There is nothing wrong with gaining knowledge about a product you are gonna purchase.
Oh, I know. It's just that it seemed to me like he was mocking me or something. :/

Pearsonally I think worrying about what maple on a mid level kit is a bit overkill though.
hehe I admit that I can see this. :) But I have this weird personality trait that when I buy something, it has to be the best of the best among the options within my budget. :eek:

Why dont you ask how the Mapex M's and the Sonor Force maple sound?

My Sonor Force 3007 is by far the best sounding kit I have ever had (and I've had high end kits before) and its on par (sound wise) with anything I've ever played.

I just put some Evans EC2's on, tuned it up and I couldnt seem to stop playing my toms because I couldnt believe how freakin awsome they sounded.

I think either the Mapex or the Sonors will more than hold you over for three years.

EC2s007.jpg
Especially if the 3007s and the Meridian Maples share the exact same shells! And it sounds to me like they do!

Speaking of your head choice on the toms, I recently saw some video clips of Aquiles Priester's DVD called "The Infallible Reason of my Freak Drumming" where he is playing some Meridian Maples with EC2s! Here are two clips in 720p:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym_-tZwhRL0&hd=1 (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXrrqO-Lz3o&hd=1 (part 2)

Of course, there are many more clips on YouTube from this video, but these are my favorite because they're in 720p while the rest are in 480p. :)

But anyway, there are a few sections where the toms can be heard quite clearly, and they sound really nice to me. Unfortunately, I see triggers on his bass drums so I am basically ignoring their sound, but I don't see any triggers on any of his toms!

Oh man, speaking of his toms, listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXrrqO-Lz3o&hd=1#t=6m30s

Here's are the specs for his setup:

http://www.aquilespriester.com/ingt/setup.html

Bottom line, the Sonor Select Force (or the Mapex, although I think they have less lugs as KarlCrafton has mentioned) are outstanding drums for their price. It'd be very...well, stupid, really, to think they are just going to vanish into thin air because they have 2 mm of asian maple inside; it's all a matter of sound. Keep in mind Sonor hands these kits out to upcoming artists who just got their endorsement, so they are clearly not ashamed of these drums. But if you are planning to go high end in just a couple of years, save up a little longer.
I can't wait any longer. :p

Although, in all fairness, what do you want a 2500 dollars+ kit for? Are you currently recording and touring professionally? Even if you are, so are many other artists recording and gigging with intermediate drums; and they don't sound half bad. Invest in nice cymbals and recording equipment. Just what I'd do.


Fox.
I've had the same Stage Customs for 14 years. :/ Their sound is holding me back quite a bit. I've even had friends say so. So even if the Meridian Maples (or some other comparable drums) sound significantly better than my Stage Customs to me, then I still want to get some top-of-the-line drums because it's been a dream of mine for about 10+ years now. Plus, my playing has finally reached a level recently where I think I can finally say that I have completely outgrown my Stage Customs.

Although, I know myself well enough that I am quite sure that once I have the Meridian Maples, my mind will probably change and so then I'll be spending my saved-up money in 2-3 years on a whole new set of cymbals (which is another dream of mine) instead of high-end drums. I mean, I want to keep a few of my cymbals, but the rest just aren't me anymore. But fortunately, all of my cymbals are professional models.

But where does the OP mention "sonic properties" in any way, shape, or form.
It's implied. ;) Plus, I hoped that it would go without saying.

Again, my reference is two where these items are grown. Whether it be a coffee plant or a maple tree, latitude and longitude (geographic location), soil and atmospheric conditions (amounts of sunlight, rainfall, etc.) are going to impact a tree grown in North America vs. Asia.
Which seems to be basically just a reiteration of the information I linked to here: http://www.sizes.com/units/janka.htm
Exactly.

It also sounds to me like how fast or slow the tree grows further affects the sound in addition to everything you mentioned, Harry.
 
I think the fact that you've played these drums .... had hands on ... at "Ellis", and you like the sound of 'em ... is more important than wood type, hardness, Chinese made, and any and all the other moot point WGAF issues .....​
I played the kit, and I liked the way it sounded. Hard core. Old school. You can't fault that logic. "I liked the way they sounded" is exactly the reason why people should buy drums.​
 
Cables, have you considered the yamaha tour customs too? I think they sound very nice, compared to the meridians maple I play once a week.
 
Cables, have you considered the yamaha tour customs too? I think they sound very nice, compared to the meridians maple I play once a week.
Yeah, but the higher price of the Tour Customs is turning me off. :/ I know I could buy used, but for now I have a strong preference of being the first owner of whatever I get.
 
Here's my list of things that go into determining the sound of a drum, in APPROXIMATE order of the influence on the sound. Note that this is just MY general list, give or take a ranking -- somebody else might put these in a different order:
1. Heads & tuning
2. Shell material (wood vs. metal vs. acrylic, etc.)
3. Bearing edges
4. Dimensions
5. Shell thickness
6. Shell construction (ply vs. steambent vs. stave, etc.)
7. General wood density (soft vs. medium vs. hard)
8. Hoops
9. Mounting system
10. Wood species
11. Wood variety within species
12. Number of lugs
13. Type of lugs

...so if you want to upgrade the sound, I'd suggest recutting the bearing edges before replacing the kit to get a different variety of maple. Yes, the harder wood will give you a noticeable change in the character of the sound, but great edges on cheap wood still sound really good. You can probably give your whole kit a huge step up for $150 or so.
 
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