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  #41  
Old 01-30-2014, 07:30 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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One, I have never quite understood is tango's being in 4/8, isn't that just 2/4? I think easy notation is a big part of it as was mentioned, however I encounter this a lot in ballroom dance where the tempo is in measures per minute rather than beats per minute. IE 6/8 can sound fast lots of beats, but be slower than a 3/4.
Each tango sheet I've ever seen has been in 4/4.
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  #42  
Old 01-30-2014, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

Here is an interesting interpretation of 4/8:

http://learntodancetango.com/video/6...ection=comment

Dancers go figure.
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  #43  
Old 01-30-2014, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

I'm seeing a lot of really strange ideas about time signatures in this thread.......... I'd suggest anyone new to this ignore the thread here and go talk to a teacher and use real world examples.
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  #44  
Old 01-30-2014, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

They're exactly the same... ...except one is in three and the other is in two...


...or six...


...or three.


Other than that they are exactly the same.
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  #45  
Old 01-31-2014, 01:20 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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They're exactly the same... ...except one is in three and the other is in two...


...or six...


...or three.


Other than that they are exactly the same.
I don't understand what you mean. A 6 isn't a 2. You might choose to break it up that way for many reasons, but I'm not getting your meaning I think. If you play 6 notes and say accent the 4th, what sense does it make to think of that as a 2? Move it one note and say you have an accent on the 5... I'd be even more confused trying to think of it as some kind of 2.

I mean, for me, it's not a 2, unless the repetition starts over after 2.... Are you talking about 2 groups of 3?
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  #46  
Old 01-31-2014, 01:38 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

Here is the simple answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AddwD9NEKok
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  #47  
Old 01-31-2014, 01:44 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

What is a good example of a popular song that is in 6/8? I am still unclear as to how it feels.
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  #48  
Old 01-31-2014, 01:50 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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What is a good example of a popular song that is in 6/8? I am still unclear as to how it feels.
I love this particular 6/8. "Breaking the girl" by RHCP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyu04pqC8lE

Count along and feel how the song stresses the 4-6 of the beat before it starts back over. At one point there's even a little breakdown where he clearly stresses the 4-5-6 on the bell. You could count it in 3, but it makes less sense by far, and both 3's would be different.
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  #49  
Old 01-31-2014, 01:57 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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What is a good example of a popular song that is in 6/8? I am still unclear as to how it feels.
Norwegian Wood is a great example of how to feel a 6/8 pulse, Lar.
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  #50  
Old 01-31-2014, 03:56 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

It's basically where you feel the beat. In 3/4 you feel 3 strong beats, where as 6/8 is more like 2/4 with a triplet feel. It saves the writer a lot of time adding triplet brackets by just changing the time sig from 2/4 to 6/8.
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  #51  
Old 01-31-2014, 03:58 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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It's basically where you feel the beat. In 3/4 you feel 3 strong beats, where as 6/8 is more like 2/4 with a triplet feel. It saves the writer a lot of time adding triplet brackets by just changing the time sig from 2/4 to 6/8.
best description yet
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  #52  
Old 01-31-2014, 04:14 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

Funny I always thought Norwegian Wood was 3/4 time.I just looked at some sheet music and it shown as 3/4, 6/8 and 12/8. So Uncle Larry the search continues.

So try Piano Man by Billy Joel, or the House of the Rising Sun, Animals
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  #53  
Old 01-31-2014, 05:09 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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It's basically where you feel the beat. In 3/4 you feel 3 strong beats, where as 6/8 is more like 2/4 with a triplet feel. It saves the writer a lot of time adding triplet brackets by just changing the time sig from 2/4 to 6/8.
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best description yet
Totally.

But at the same time, don't discount your advice that was offered in an older thread where you described feeling the pulse of 3/4 by clapping on beats "2,3".........or clapping on beats "1 and 4" as per a 6/8 measure.

That's how it was described to me many years ago and it's never failed to have me easily identify the pulse....and when one time signature should be employed over the other. It's a tangible example mate and I was glad to see you offer it up in a previous thread.
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  #54  
Old 01-31-2014, 06:00 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

This is 6/8 as I understand it.

Blues style 6/8...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNdagpIgItw

Jazz style 6/8...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CrBIK_E7kk

(how about those tom angles?)

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Funny I always thought Norwegian Wood was 3/4 time.I just looked at some sheet music and it shown as 3/4, 6/8 and 12/8. So Uncle Larry the search continues.

So try Piano Man by Billy Joel, or the House of the Rising Sun, Animals
I've always thought Norwegian Wood is a 3/4 beat because it has that waltz feel to it. Boom dat dat. Boom dat dat. Boom dat dat.
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Last edited by Midnite Zephyr; 01-31-2014 at 06:12 AM. Reason: added quote & comment
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  #55  
Old 01-31-2014, 06:20 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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I don't understand what you mean. A 6 isn't a 2. You might choose to break it up that way for many reasons, but I'm not getting your meaning I think. If you play 6 notes and say accent the 4th, what sense does it make to think of that as a 2? Move it one note and say you have an accent on the 5... I'd be even more confused trying to think of it as some kind of 2.

I mean, for me, it's not a 2, unless the repetition starts over after 2.... Are you talking about 2 groups of 3?
I mean that either time signature can be played many different ways depending on the tempo and style. 6/8 can either be in 2, 3, or 6 depending on the above. Theoretically it could even be 4 and 2.
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  #56  
Old 01-31-2014, 06:21 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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What is a good example of a popular song that is in 6/8? I am still unclear as to how it feels.
Color My World by Chicago.
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  #57  
Old 01-31-2014, 06:26 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr View Post
This is 6/8 as I understand it.

Blues style 6/8...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNdagpIgItw
Now I hear that as a shuffle based on 4 triplets per bar.

I count that as "1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4", with snare on 2 and 4.
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  #58  
Old 01-31-2014, 07:27 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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Funny I always thought Norwegian Wood was 3/4 time.
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Originally Posted by Midnite Zephyr View Post
I've always thought Norwegian Wood is a 3/4 beat because it has that waltz feel to it. Boom dat dat. Boom dat dat. Boom dat dat.
Then we most definitely hear the world differently my old friends. If I'd never heard the track before and someone asked me to play along, my natural reaction would be to play that tune in 6/8....with the snare back beat on the 4 of two x triplet based measure. It's just how my brain hears the turnaround, I guess. Playing it as straight as "boom dat dat, boom dat dat" just doesn't allow for the full measure to be repeated, to my ear.

Anyhow to avoid any further confusion, I definitely hear Breaking The Girl as a 6/8 pattern. Perhaps that is better served as an example.
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  #59  
Old 01-31-2014, 07:38 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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Then we most definitely hear the world differently my old friends. If I'd never heard the track before and someone asked me to play along, my natural reaction would be to play that tune in 6/8....with the snare back beat on the 4 of two x triplet based measure. It's just how my brain hears the turnaround, I guess. Playing it as straight as "boom dat dat, boom dat dat" just doesn't allow for the full measure to be repeated, to my ear.

Anyhow to avoid any further confusion, I definitely hear Breaking The Girl as a 6/8 pattern. Perhaps that is better served as an example.
Hmmm. Maybe I hear it that way because I play it on the guitar. Never on the drums, but I'd say your right about the snare on the 4. Maybe it's just the way I strum it.

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Now I hear that as a shuffle based on 4 triplets per bar.

I count that as "1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4", with snare on 2 and 4.
I'm really not sure what that time signature it is then. I can count it as a a fast 6 or a slow 4. We play the song Spooky in one band and it has that same beat to it.
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  #60  
Old 01-31-2014, 08:35 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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There doesnt really seem to be a common consensus with this issue in my experience. Some guys think in three, other guys think in six, and the argument is usually moot, because they are essentially the same thing.
I think in six when there is a melodic phrase that would push a bar to sound more natural if counted in six, rather than in three (as seen in John Mayers Gravity).
There are other issues, like in the chorus of Screaming Headless Torso's Free Man that is 100% in six, because the downbeat is strong on the 'one', rather than the typical strong downbeat on the one and the strong pulse on three in a waltz-feel type deely.
Free Man is 7/4, I know this is a necropost.
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  #61  
Old 01-31-2014, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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Originally Posted by Zickos View Post
I mean that either time signature can be played many different ways depending on the tempo and style. 6/8 can either be in 2, 3, or 6 depending on the above. Theoretically it could even be 4 and 2.
I've always thought of tempo being key here to how it makes sense to me personally. Given that something at 90 bpm could also be said to be at 180bpm, I've always preferred to count fast and I prefer the 'space' when I say numbers instead of 'and'. So I always think of songs as being in 6/8 rather than 3/4.

This might have something to do with how I like my metronomes always set to be clicking away at the highest note value I'm going to play on the hats. More often than not 16ths.

I always find it funny that nobody every says, 'this track is in 8/8', especially given the argument that the time signature is a reference to the length of the loop and you return to the start of the count after it resolves and repeats.
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Old 01-31-2014, 04:10 PM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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I've always thought of tempo being key here to how it makes sense to me personally. Given that something at 90 bpm could also be said to be at 180bpm, I've always preferred to count fast and I prefer the 'space' when I say numbers instead of 'and'. So I always think of songs as being in 6/8 rather than 3/4.

This might have something to do with how I like my metronomes always set to be clicking away at the highest note value I'm going to play on the hats. More often than not 16ths.

I always find it funny that nobody every says, 'this track is in 8/8', especially given the argument that the time signature is a reference to the length of the loop and you return to the start of the count after it resolves and repeats.
Yeah, I think the absence of 8/8 or 8/4 is weird too, especially when son clave is a two bars of 4/4 phrase. I think only dancers count eight beats. Last night I was trying the 8/8 and 8/4 approach, it fills pretty good.
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  #63  
Old 01-31-2014, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

If you Google, Sheet music for Norwegian Wood, you will see a myriad of styles.
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  #64  
Old 02-01-2014, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

Exactly. The difference is entirely the feel and tempo of the song. I could write the same pattern in three different time signatures, adjust the tempo and come up with the same drum pattern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillBachman View Post
It's basically where you feel the beat. In 3/4 you feel 3 strong beats, where as 6/8 is more like 2/4 with a triplet feel. It saves the writer a lot of time adding triplet brackets by just changing the time sig from 2/4 to 6/8.
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  #65  
Old 02-01-2014, 01:20 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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Norwegian Wood is a great example of how to feel a 6/8 pulse, Lar.
Well, no. One practical way to approach this kind of thing is to consider how it would be charted out.

Here, in G, is the melodic line from Norwegian Wood, in 6/8:



Four bars? Doesn't seem right.

Now here it is in 3/4:



There it is, the eight-bar phrase that is repeated once in each chorus.

Which best communicates the phrasing and pulse of the song, and, maybe most importantly, which is more intuitive to read?

I'm going with 3/4, all the way.
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Old 02-01-2014, 01:22 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

OK Jay, is there a better popular song that best exemplifies what 6/8 feels like?
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Old 02-01-2014, 01:30 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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OK Jay, is there a better popular song that best exemplifies what 6/8 feels like?
That's a good question, Larry. Nothing comes to mind. I'll keep thinking.
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  #68  
Old 02-01-2014, 03:15 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

My Real book has Norwegian Wood notated as 12/8
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Old 02-01-2014, 04:04 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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Which best communicates the phrasing and pulse of the song, and, maybe most importantly, which is more intuitive to read?

I'm going with 3/4, all the way.
I think you make a fair point as to which is more intuitive to read. But when I sit down at a drum kit and play along to the track, I still hear the turnaround in 6/8 as opposed to 3/4. To my ear, the pulse is distinctly 1,2,3,4,5,6, 1,2,3,4,5,6. The downbeat just appears out of place when counted as 1,2,3,1,2,3.

Dunno mate. Initially I thought it was a good example. Turns out to be more confusing now than when we first started. Wish I'd kept my bloody mouth shut now. :-).
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Old 02-01-2014, 04:09 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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My Real book has Norwegian Wood notated as 12/8
12/8:



Technically it works, but why make it so weird to read?
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Old 02-01-2014, 04:13 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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I think you make a fair point as to which is more intuitive to read. But when I sit down at a drum kit and play along to the track, I still hear the turnaround in 6/8 as opposed to 3/4. To my ear, the pulse is distinctly 1,2,3,4,5,6, 1,2,3,4,5,6. The downbeat just appears out of place when counted as 1,2,3,1,2,3.

Dunno mate. Initially I thought it was a good example. Turns out to be more confusing now than when we first started. Wish I'd kept my bloody mouth shut now. :-).
I'll tell you, Pocket. Having written so many charts for so many picky musicians, it's become a major point with me.
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Old 02-01-2014, 04:25 AM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

Part of a list on Google, Songs in 6/8 time

Subterranean Homesick Alien - Radiohead
Next Lover - James
House of the Rising Sun - Animals
Norwegian Wood - Beatles
Rainy Day Women #12 and #35 - Bob Dylan
The Stone - Dave Matthews Band
Thank U - Alanis Morissette
Breakaway - Kelly Clarkson
Because - The Beatles
Thank God It's Christmas - Queen
When a Man Loves a Woman - Percy Sledge
Black Velvet - Alannah Myles
Blue - LeAnn Rimes
Then You Can Tell Me Goodbye - The Casinos
Lights - Journey
Eclipse - Pink Floyd
Oh Darlin' - The Beatles
In the Still of the Night - Five Satins
Crazy - Aerosmith
Break It To Me Gently - Juice Newton
Show Me The Way - Styx
Hopelessly Devoted To You - Olivia Newton-John
All I Want For Christmas Is You - Vince Vance & The Valiants
Never Tear Us Apart - INXS
The Great Pretender - Freddie Mercury
Somebody To Love - Queen
We Are The Champions - Queen
These Arms Of Mine - LeAnn Rimes
Everybody Hurts - REM
I Can't Win For Losing You - Earl Thomas Conley
I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues - Elton John
I Tell It Like It Used To Be - T. Graham Brown
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Old 02-01-2014, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

Why isn't Color My World on that list?
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  #74  
Old 02-01-2014, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

I would also assume a composer would chose which time signature to use within a song based on what gets the beat in every measure.

For instance if a song was in 7/4 or 5/4 and needed a measure in 6/8 or 3/4 I would thinbk 3/4 would be the go to.
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Old 02-01-2014, 02:47 PM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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Originally Posted by con struct View Post
12/8:



Technically it works, but why make it so weird to read?
It emphasizes the polyrhythm between the triplet feel 4/4 and the sixteen note 3/4.

Besides, if it were in 6/8, they would have called it Irish Wood.
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:58 PM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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12/8:



Technically it works, but why make it so weird to read?
you nailed it J

they all technically work 3/4 , 6/8, 12/8

reading and writing charts is a pretty big part of how I make a living as it was yours for a long time I know..... and whats funny is a tune like Norwegian Wood without a chart I feel it in 6/8 , but if I was reading it my eyes would prefer 3/4 since I usually think in 8 bar phrases

if that makes any sense

all in all none of it really matters as long as when you play the a tune the correct feel is captured

if you want to think of it in 24/8 ....be my guest.... just make it feel good

:)
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

I wouldn't consider Color My World as 6/8 but rather 6/4. In fact, I wouldn't consider 1/2 the tunes on the Google list as 6/8 tunes. 6/8 implies a certain tempo which is quick and I'm counting it in 2. Color My World I count in 6.

Think of 6/8 as a marching feel (Washington Post March or USC Fight Song) and 3/4 as a waltz.

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Originally Posted by Zickos View Post
Why isn't Color My World on that list?
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:47 PM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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Originally Posted by Bart Hodge View Post
I wouldn't consider Color My World as 6/8 but rather 6/4. In fact, I wouldn't consider 1/2 the tunes on the Google list as 6/8 tunes. 6/8 implies a certain tempo which is quick and I'm counting it in 2. Color My World I count in 6.

Think of 6/8 as a marching feel (Washington Post March or USC Fight Song) and 3/4 as a waltz.
Not so. Anything can be N/8 (N=number) as long as you assign the 8 to an eighth note. Case in point: Bizet C Maj. Symphony, second movement, written Adagio in 9/8 (my community orchestra is currently preparing to perform this). The tempo is about 60bpm, quite slow but still in 9/8. It later gets up in tempo to be in three rather than nine but the notation doesn't change. The "8" in the time signature is simply a designation of what note gets a beat, not the tempo. There countless examples of this in classical as well as other forms of music. 6/8 can be beat in six as well as two or even three (1-2-3-4-5-6-1-2-3-4-5-6 as in Latin influenced music). Sometimes it can be beat as four+two or two+four.
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Old 02-02-2014, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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Originally Posted by Zickos View Post
Not so. Anything can be N/8 (N=number) as long as you assign the 8 to an eighth note. Case in point: Bizet C Maj. Symphony, second movement, written Adagio in 9/8 (my community orchestra is currently preparing to perform this). The tempo is about 60bpm, quite slow but still in 9/8. It later gets up in tempo to be in three rather than nine but the notation doesn't change. The "8" in the time signature is simply a designation of what note gets a beat, not the tempo. There countless examples of this in classical as well as other forms of music. 6/8 can be beat in six as well as two or even three (1-2-3-4-5-6-1-2-3-4-5-6 as in Latin influenced music). Sometimes it can be beat as four+two or two+four.
I think you are confusing the rehearsal marks with the interpretation. For example jazz 3/4 they move the subdivisions around could be any thing 6/8, 9/8 to 12/8, so literally there are only three beats.
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Old 02-02-2014, 03:35 PM
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Default Re: What is the difference of 3/4 and 6/8?

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Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
all in all none of it really matters as long as when you play the a tune the correct feel is captured

if you want to think of it in 24/8 ....be my guest.... just make it feel good :)
This is it ^^^

3/4, 6/8, 12/8, 4/4 with dotted quarter pulse... it really doesn't matter, what matters is that you feel which one is working for you, only the result count, how you get there is irrelevant :)
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