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  #41  
Old 09-24-2010, 07:09 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Originally Posted by Michael McDanial View Post
Seriously, I don't get why these threads keep coming up all the time, and I'm not just referring to Drummerworld. I am a member of a saxophone forum, and it is an issue that constantly comes up there as well.

"Can I still be a great drummer/saxophonist/(name instrument) without learning how to read music?"

"Will having a lot of technical skill on my instrument hurt my playing and cause me to play with less soul/feeling?"

These questions are just ridiculous. How can it possibly HURT you to know how to read music?! How can it possibly HURT you to become a better technical player?

Why do people constantly ask these questions? Is it because they're too lazy to put in the time to learn how to read, or the practice time to improve their technical skills, and they're just looking for some sort of approval from other musicians to make themselves feel better about their laziness?
Word. Very well said.

Will not knowing how to read English make me any less of a speaker?
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  #42  
Old 09-24-2010, 07:15 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Okay, but really, do rock musicians, rock drummers, need to know how to read music to play rock music? Do rock musicians even need to really know anything at all about music theory in any way, shape or form to play rock music?

If the answer is no then it's absolutely true that they needn't bother with learning music theory, learning how to read music.
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  #43  
Old 09-24-2010, 07:17 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Word. Very well said.

Will not knowing how to read English make me any less of a speaker?
Will illiteracy hinder one's eloquence? Of course. Absolutely. Irrevocably. Entirely. Gravely. Etc etc.
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  #44  
Old 09-24-2010, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Sure guys. You've said it heaps of times times times times times ...

The question is ... is preaching the best way to change people's minds? I've always been told that if you want to influence someone you have to come to them rather than push them to come to you.

Based on your comments, if you guys were piano teachers back in the 60s you may well have been whacking kids over the knuckles every time they messed up ;)

Matt's post early on in the other thread (to which I linked) eloquently described the benefits of being able to read music. I reckon that would be way more influential than these metaphorical rulers over the knuckles ... an extract from it probably should be printed in 36pt font, laminated, and hung in every drum teacher's studio ...
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:30 AM
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  #45  
Old 09-24-2010, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Nobody is preaching Pol. Nor was I criticising the Islanders. Simply stating a fact. When you decided not to read in my class did I force you? There is no absolute expressed on this thread. Does reading have advantages? Clearly it does. If one wants to work making a living from drumming it is pretty well a must. How could I, for example teach if I could not read?

Me thinkest thou protests too much." ;p
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  #46  
Old 09-24-2010, 07:37 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Taking a break with water beaker in hand. Count the 40 rudiments if you can. They're all in there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_985KeU6fCI
Yeah mate I kind of already know the rudiments, thanks. Professional drummer here. Ta
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:52 AM
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  #47  
Old 09-24-2010, 07:52 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Will illiteracy hinder one's eloquence? Of course. Absolutely. Irrevocably. Entirely. Gravely. Etc etc.
Keep in mind, though, that many musical traditions in the world are entirely spoken. Many indigenous people have no written language or music. That's an entirely different way of approaching music, however.

In the more formal context of Western music, any communicator who cannot read and write the language of his medium will be disadvantaged in some way. There perhaps are ways around it - just as illiterate people still function in society with work-arounds - but they will be at a disadvantage nevertheless.
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  #48  
Old 09-24-2010, 07:57 AM
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My favourite drummer is a Pom. :)
Do tell---------------------------
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  #49  
Old 09-24-2010, 08:22 AM
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Do tell---------------------------
Mitch Michelson
Bill Ward
Cozy Powell
...plus that creepy guy that was the original drummer for Judas Priest

Is Pom short for something? Also is there a cute Aussie slang for Mexicans?
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  #50  
Old 09-24-2010, 08:38 AM
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Currently awaiting a student!

Pom is an abbreviation of pommegranite (sp?) It was thought the English turned a red in the Aussie sun. ;)

The Ashes are coming you see.
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  #51  
Old 09-24-2010, 08:57 AM
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...plus that creepy guy that was the original drummer for Judas Priest
Argghhh, now you've really gone & done it! Creepy? Only my favourite drummer, who's a total gentleman with subtle skills that send a tingle down my spine.
BTW, using sticks & pedals has really damaged my playing. From now on, I will be playing the drums using only my mind, & guess what, it sounds fantastic. Suddenly, I'm the best drummer in the world!
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  #52  
Old 09-24-2010, 09:01 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Nobody is preaching Pol. Nor was I criticising the Islanders. Simply stating a fact. When you decided not to read in my class did I force you? There is no absolute expressed on this thread. Does reading have advantages? Clearly it does. If one wants to work making a living from drumming it is pretty well a must. How could I, for example teach if I could not read?

Me thinkest thou protests too much." ;p
Nah, you guys are preaching :)

Wy ... I'm not a sight reader, but I can work it out. When I wrote a bunch of tunes back in the 80s I transcribed all of the main melodies so I'd have a backup should the sequencer fail (or as it turned out, got stolen). It took me a long time (haha) but I did it. I've never had plans to be a hired gun drummer so there's not much point for me in learning to sight read.

So my comments aren't about me. They're about people who are the opposite to me - who are not at all bookish and are intimidated by academia, even simple stuff. I'm fine with academia but I'm intimidated by reality :)

Yeah, I knew you weren't criticising the Islanders and that's simply not your style. I was just speculating as to why they don't want to read in your classes, and I think it's because reading is at odds with their traditional way of making music. Might be worth finding out what they name beats & licks etc ... they might have their own system of organising notes and phrases.

Andy, here's a hint ... Wy's fave drummer is the same as my fave drummer ... his name is [drum roll] ..............................................
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  #53  
Old 09-24-2010, 09:02 AM
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Argghhh, now you've really gone & done it! Creepy? Only my favourite drummer, who's a total gentleman with subtle skills that send a tingle down my spine.
No not the founding drummer, I mean the guy that was supposedly busted for sex with a minor. That's pretty creepy.

KIS, do you consider it derogatory to be called a pom? I'm suddenly fascinated with this new slang.
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  #54  
Old 09-24-2010, 09:03 AM
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Andy, here's a hint ... Wy's fave drummer is the same as my fave drummer ... his name is [drum roll] ....Rick Astley..............
-------------------------
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  #55  
Old 09-24-2010, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Andy, here's a hint ... Wy's fave drummer is the same as my fave drummer ... his name is [drum roll] ....Rick Astley..............
Lol ... watch it, lad ... if you were any sharper you'd cut yourself!

Red, "Pom" is just an affectionate nickname, but I didn't know it was based on pomegranate until now ... funny thing is, most of the Pom tourists I see out here LOVE the Aussie sun - they bask like crazy and, amazingly, usually turn a rich, golden brown. From what I've seen, the Scots are the ones who turn into lobsters ...
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  #56  
Old 09-24-2010, 09:07 AM
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KIS, do you consider it derogatory to be called a pom? I'm suddenly fascinated with this new slang.
Nah, I love friendly slagging banter, it adds colour to our global village. Insults as terms of endearment are fun.
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  #57  
Old 09-24-2010, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Oh, almost forgot two.

Moonie and that tosser that plays drums for Cream. Do the Irish count as Poms?
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  #58  
Old 09-24-2010, 09:13 AM
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Do the Irish count as Poms?
Technically no. They (and Scots) enjoy being mistaken for English as much as Kiwis like being mistaken for Aussies and Canadians like being mistaken for Yanks (aka US Americans). It's pretty well the same relationship ...

:)
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  #59  
Old 09-24-2010, 09:19 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Originally Posted by Destroy1
Taking a break with water beaker in hand. Count the 40 rudiments if you can. They're all in there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_985KeU6fCI
Since you asked for it: I tried to listen (despite the audio quality), but I'm pretty sure there's not really much more than a lot of singles and some doubles in there (like RLF and RLL combinations). I think I didn't even hear a flam. I think you're just a little too much bragging about yourself during the threads, sorry. I certainly didn't hear any swiss triplets or triple ratamacues for example.

And also: You do know how to read as far as I understand, so why do you constantly use yourself as a "good example" of someone who can't read but made it anyway? Or did you try to show you can do a rock solo without a music stand next to you ;)?
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  #60  
Old 09-24-2010, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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It's one thing if a person comes onto a forum saying, "Hey, I'm having trouble improving my reading/knowledge of music theory because I'm not really a book person. What would you recommend?"

It's a different thing when a person comes on a forum saying "There have been great drummers in the past that couldn't read music, so it's ok if I don't learn how, right?" That comes off to me as basically "I don't want to put in the time to learn how to read music, and I'm just looking for some approval from other musicians."
+1. Nicely put. blablabla
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  #61  
Old 09-24-2010, 12:52 PM
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I have been reading these recent threads and I think Matt and Wy have done a great job in crystalizing my thoughts especially on the 'subjectivity' issue.

From my perspective this whole 'reading vs thinking outside the box like a child' is missing the point entirely and is "lower level" of thinking (not bad, just lower). And I'll tell you why I think that way.

My first touch with making my own music was propably somewhere between when I was 4-6 years old. I started to invastigate different melodies on the piano. I had this pet melody of my own that I tried to perfect. Eventually it was quite a long song. At that time no one had taught me any instrument, I didn't know any theory. So I don't actually know if it was any good. My dad told me it was really really creative, that I'm gifted. So maybe I was, or maybe I was his child and he wanted me to feel good about myself. Hard to know objectively.

So I had this rather long song that I was proud to play for everyone who visited our house. But what I noticed was that if I wasn't playing for a while, I would forget some of that song. So I needed to record it somehow. I saw all these books around me with something called 'notes' on them. So I thought 'ok some people can write this stuff down, why shouldn't I?". So I created my own music theory and notes. I don't really remember what my logic behind it all was but I remember I used the same symbols and was able to reproduce most of my pet song from it so I guess I was successful.

Then my dad did what any parent at that position would do. He sent me for piano lessons. Suddenly I had to learn to read proper notation and play some basic stuff everyone 'in the box' learned. Suddenly I couldn't play my old pet song anymore. I was depressed. Time passed, I changed instruments. I found drums, got accepted to music academy. Even though I was learning 'jazz drums' I had to first learn the same music theory as those who studied classical music. That lasted 3 years. At that point I was absolutely sure the music theory had corrupted my mind and I could never be that same child again.

Then they started giving me 'jazz theory' lessons and forced me back behind the piano, eventhough I was a drummer! Blasphemous! It was interesting for a couple of years but the sense that I had corrupted myself never left. Then from lack of passion (and a band) I quit drums and playing for several years and found myself as a passionate music consumer.

These days I know what _actually_ happened though. The moment when I first hit the piano wasn't my first touch with music. I had listened what my dad played and what he listened to for at least 4 years before that. So I was "corrupted" to begin with. None of what I tried to play was actually 100% mine. It took me many many years of understanding jazz theory what I had been trying to do. It wasn't because I was sooo creative, it was like that because of the cultural background I was growing in. Even as a kid I tried to play something you would hear a Jarret or Corea play. No people outside our house really listened to those guys back then so everyone thought I was being creative. And those guys weren't creating out of vacuum either. I think it was Einstein that said "Being creative is the ability to hide your sources" and I think it's partly true. I just had to have a slightly longer joyrney with music theory than most people would, because of my background.

So what it all comes down to is to know your music theory of choice inside out and then forgetting it all (or making it seem to you that you are forgetting it) and letting you be the child again. Reading and writing is the first minor step before that. These days I don't understand how someone can say they are 'thinking outside of the box' if they don't even know where the box is and how large it is and of what colour. I guess ignorance is bliss, like it was when I was a kid.

Why would you even want to create something completely out of cultural context? To feel absolutely special even though no one could understand you? I could easily write songs in such time signatures that even Vinnie wouldn't be able to play it and write a melody on top of that such that everything would be against the accepted 'rules' of music theory. But what would that achieve? Music is a language, language is used for communication. Why would any poet try to create a language of his own if he tries to tell something to other people? They wouldn't understand him.

What those guys who only 'feel' music are doing is basicly what I was doing back when I was a kid. They use their background as a basis for everything. But to me that only gets you so far. To know yourself is to know your roots really well even if you don't like some of it.

Remember folks, that's all from MY perspective. And sorry if I sound preachy or if the long post was waste of your time. This stuff had to come out.

Last edited by JPW; 09-24-2010 at 02:03 PM.
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  #62  
Old 09-24-2010, 01:02 PM
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JPW your post really moved me. I am affected strongly and will remember my reaction and use it in my teaching. Many thanks.

Oh and to answer the question: Bill Bruford. I simply like how he conducted his career with such integrity.
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  #63  
Old 09-24-2010, 01:05 PM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Don't learn to read and also don't go to a music college. Leave all the really good gigs for the guys who took the time to do both. People who think that reading/schooled/technical players can't really play or have no soul are just kidding themselves.
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  #64  
Old 09-24-2010, 01:06 PM
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JPW your post really moved me. I am affected strongly and will remember my reaction and use it in my teaching. Many thanks.
Since we have had our disagreements in the past, you saying that means a lot to me. Thanks. =)
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  #65  
Old 09-24-2010, 01:11 PM
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JPW, I read the post several times. I appreciate it and won't forget it. I will in fact speak about it to a specific student next Tuesday. Cheers mate. D
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  #66  
Old 09-24-2010, 01:40 PM
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Michael, I think you've taken my response the wrong way :)

It's not about accusations of incompetence but of indolence. What I'm saying is that much of the apparent laziness is due to discomfort, aversion and fear.

There are plenty of smart drummers out there but I've also met some with the intellectual prowess of an earthworm. And they could play like demons too :) I certainly wouldn't want to try to teach them to read - it would be like trying to teach physics to a chimp ...

Wy, re: the Polynesian students and their unwillingness to learn reading, those guys tend to have a rich musical tradition, don't they? I'm willing to bet it's an oral/aural tradition so learning to read might feel too much at adds with their usual approach. Just guessing ...

As Abe said, lots of cultures have fabulous musical traditions without it being written down. However, they have alternative tools like the naming of beats (eg. wa-wa-ko) whereas our culture has long used reading as a learning tool.

There IS a danger of losing perspective - having analytical thought processes interfering with one's creative instincts. It's all about balance, of course. No one's going to interfere with their instincts by learning some music theory if they, as Demon said, always remember that their ears should be the boss.

My message to noobs is if, after a few years of playing, you don't have people going crazy about your playing and waving job offers and record contracts at you, then chances are that your creative instincts aren't at "freak" level and you might as well pick up some theory because it will help you be a better player. Matt described the benefits of reading here:

http://drummerworld.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=39
I'm not disagreeing with you at all Polly. In fact, we're quite in agreement. I very much agree that some people are capable of getting by just using their ears. I never said that people have to learn to read music. However, when a person comes on an internet forum and asks if they should learn how to read music and then gets defensive when they don't get the answer they want, that gets on my nerves.

Why ask when you've already made up your mind on what you're going to do? You're wasting my time and the time of other musicians on the forums who are taking the time to give you their advice. I can't tell how good a person's musical skills are by talking to them on a forum. That's why I would always recommend that they do learn how to read music, because it can't hurt them. It can only help them. But don't come here asking if you should learn how to read music and then getting upset when you don't get the answer you want.

Anyway, I just needed to blow off some steam because I constantly see these threads even on different forums, and the people who ask the question constantly become combative when they don't get the answer they wanted to hear.
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  #67  
Old 09-24-2010, 01:42 PM
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Also is there a cute Aussie slang for Mexicans?
No, but Victorians (people from the southern state of Victoria) are refered to as Mexicans by the northern states.

The Irish (Paddys) are not Poms and nor are the Scots (Jocks)........call them Pommies at your peril. It's confusing down here in the colonies!! :-)
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  #68  
Old 09-24-2010, 01:48 PM
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IThese days I know what _actually_ happened though. The moment when I first hit the piano wasn't my first touch with music. I had listened what my dad played and what he listened to for at least 4 years before that. So I was "corrupted" to begin with. None of what I tried to play was actually 100% mine. It took me many many years of understanding jazz theory what I had been trying to do. It wasn't because I was sooo creative, it was like that because of the cultural background I was growing in. Even as a kid I tried to play something you would hear a Jarret or Corea play. No people outside our house really listened to those guys back then so everyone thought I was being creative. And those guys weren't creating out of vacuum either. I think it was Einstein that said "Being creative is the ability to hide your sources" and I think it's partly true. I just had to have a slightly longer joyrney with music theory than most people would, because of my background.
Great post, and that's what I wanted to get across earlier. If one thinks all he plays is one's very own creation - one is very often wrong, unfortunately.
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Old 09-24-2010, 01:50 PM
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These days I don't understand how someone can say they are 'thinking outside of the box' if they don't even know where the box is and how large it is and of what colour. I guess ignorance is bliss, like it was when I was a kid.
Again, very nicely put, JPW! This whole post of yours deserved an own thread!!
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Old 09-24-2010, 01:58 PM
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Yes, I currently love JPW and want to have his babies.

Nobody else wants me! ;)

Great post! I just read it again. I won't forget that post. Ever.
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Old 09-24-2010, 02:34 PM
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when a person comes on an internet forum and asks if they should learn how to read music and then gets defensive when they don't get the answer they want, that gets on my nerves.

Why ask when you've already made up your mind on what you're going to do? You're wasting my time and the time of other musicians on the forums who are taking the time to give you their advice. I can't tell how good a person's musical skills are by talking to them on a forum. That's why I would always recommend that they do learn how to read music, because it can't hurt them. It can only help them. But don't come here asking if you should learn how to read music and then getting upset when you don't get the answer you want.

Anyway, I just needed to blow off some steam because I constantly see these threads even on different forums, and the people who ask the question constantly become combative when they don't get the answer they wanted to hear.
Fair nuff, Michael. I like you, I like your style ... most of the time :)

The way I see it, the post that started this opus (at least we're not arguing over jazz now) was:

Quote:
I remember my drum teacher tried to make me learn this snare drum solo book by Charlie Wilcoxen. That stuff was way over my head and even today when I open up the book, it's scares me.

Can you become a great drummer just by feeling the groove or do you need to be an excellent sight reader.
What that tells me is he doesn't feel comfortable with the theory ... and it looks that happened because the drum teacher didn't "read" him very well through being over-ambitious. I'm not a drum teacher but I worked as a trainer for a couple of years and did a 3-year technical college course on training & development, so I "get it", when it comes to education.

It also seems that the OP guy wants to be great ... and I'm guessing that he means someone about whom people say "great drummer!" rather than one of The Greats.

The obvious answer to his question is yes. But also that theory is a tool and it has benefits, no better covered here IMO than by Matt in that other thread. However, it's not the be-all-and-end-all unless you're planning on working as a contractor ... there have been too many great "illiterate" drummers, both western and otherwise. That's the question answered. But when people start talking about "laziness" we're moving beyond answering the question - or even reading between the lines - it's more just pushing a barrow and following on from previous forum debates IMO

If I asked a question and had people slamming me like that I'd be irritated too. I'd be thinking, "Please just talk TO me, not AT me".

Thing is, the guy got scared by a scary drum book ... if I'd had his experience I would have been scared too. I wasn't scared off personally because I simply decided to learn more about my passion and read The Rudiments of Music - reviewing over and over - for months. I did the same thing when learning to build websites - HTML for Dummies. You read a bit, then you try a bit, all at your own pace - a nice, simple non-scary book. If the study is done with a good teacher who understands how much to push and how much to back off, all the better.

I think it would be helpful for people to suggest a nice, simple non-scary book for dpk204. I expect he'd be happy with a response like that ...

// end soliloquy //

PS. Interesting to read that little journey of yours, JP.
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Old 09-24-2010, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

The sad thing is the book is not scary. It moves logically from solo to solo. I use the book every day. Great book. Teachers need to be creative with it though. I often take 2 bars and ask a student to orchestrate them around the kit using any limb they want. The solos come alive this way.
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Wow... JPW, excellent post!!!!!!!
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Originally Posted by Michael McDanial View Post
Why do people constantly ask these questions? Is it because they're too lazy to put in the time to learn how to read, or the practice time to improve their technical skills, and they're just looking for some sort of approval from other musicians to make themselves feel better about their laziness?
Yes, pack approval is what they're looking for.
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

In an effort to try to stear this thread in a new direction- instead of the usual arguements- Yes some of us are lazy, yet some like myself- can read basic notation- but find it difficult as the music and the skill level/number of notes increase to get my brain and my appendages on the same page.

There's too many of those squiggly line things- I think they are called notes and they get in the way!

Coming from readers- how did you guys get beyond the simple notation and into proper sheet reading and what tips would you give us 'non-readers' in how to improve this part of our 'playing'
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Coming from readers- how did you guys get beyond the simple notation and into proper sheet reading and what tips would you give us 'non-readers' in how to improve this part of our 'playing'
Get a teacher, it's that simple.
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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I rest my case. You are white black, I am black white....ok, we're gray...or grey in the commonwealth....LOL

Shall we tip the gipper?

Why is it that everytime someone makes an observation about another race, it gets cataloged as racist. Knock the chip off of your shoulders people and grow up. Wy made an observation, and all of a sudden it's racist. I thought it was only America, but I can see that political correctness will ruin the entire world. Move on.
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Without reading anyone's response.

Yes it seems obvious that this should not be questioned. You should learn to read, you should get a teacher etc.

However there are loads of people who don't want to, I am one of those (at least at the moment). I'm happy playing and learning without doing any of that and we shouldn't be called 'stupid' so to speak just because we choose to do things differently or not at all.

It would be nice to receive some feedback from like minded people rather than others telling you how to play and what to do behind the kit.
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

I find it very interesting to think about the pros and cons of reading.

Firstly I question which came first, the music or the theory? Theory was invented for us to make sense of the music and to standardise it right? My experience of djembe players is that music is learnt in a way that does not involve reading at all. In fact, pre William Wilberforce the drumming that the West Africans played was considered mad music, it could not be notated as trying to find the 1 beat was tricky "it must be crazy music". Not so, it turns out that West African drumming is far more complex than we previously understood.

Secondly, I learnt drums by ear and learnt to read much later in life. Reading has helped me but I can see that it has possibly trapped me a little too,

I can't expand on this as I have to go to the pub :)
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:33 PM
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:28 PM
Michael McDanial Michael McDanial is offline
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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I don't think anyone with the contrary view to yours went that route. We are all obviously reacting to this small handful who celebrate their inability to read as if its some kind of religious lifestyle decision that actually improves and enhances their abilities as musicians.

That's a joke, and hampers the learning experience. And anyone who drinks that kool aid is living in a dream world.

It's also the kind of thing that is supposed to irritate people who are trying to be serious about this music stuff. To me the miltant drumming existentialist believes that all greatness is extracted from a 4th dimension and above reality that repudiates the absurd work demanded of us poor shlubs who exist on the earth plane. This is also many of the same crowd who repudiate technique lessons and contrary points of view. Yet they are the first to claim we don't get them.

Man if you're having a great experience without the use of written music that's great. But in no way is it a superior approach.

Does that make sense?
Once again, Matt, you have put it better than I ever could :)
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