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  #201  
Old 03-19-2013, 05:46 PM
The Old Hyde
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I switched to all Paistes a while ago from Zildjian. I looked into new Zidljians as well as Paistes and liked the sound and price of what I decided on versus Zildjians. Do i hate Zildjian, no way. would i tell anyone not to buy them for an unfounded reason about marketing or attitude or anything along those lines, no way. listen to your ears and buy what you can afford.
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  #202  
Old 03-20-2013, 07:35 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I have Paiste 505's and Dimensions, grand cymbals. I wanted a change from Sabian and Zildjian, now I'm going back to Zildjian. Has anyone ever seen Zildjian hi hats with a "medium bounce" stamp on it? I bought em because I never had, kinda dark sounding.
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  #203  
Old 03-20-2013, 08:46 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Pol, it's not that the variability of Zildjians means that half of them are bad. It's just that in my experience they are not likely to sound similar. Maybe a set of New Beats would be close to another. But things like rides seem to vary a lot. I've never run into one that I would call outright bad, although some of the heavy rides do make clangy sounds that I don't like very much. But that is a matter of taste. I've heard people play them and make it work for their style. Most of the time, I find that the pitch is higher or lower than I was expecting based on some other that I heard. Or it's drier, or washier than I was looking for. And if I go though a few, they are all different.

The good part of that, is that eventually if you look hard enough, you will find one that absolutely nails what you are looking for. Gibson guitars are like this too. Especially the 335 thin hollow model. I've owned about 6 and have played probably 100 over the years. How they sound has nothing to do with the vintage, or the model variation. It's how the wood goes together and it all adds up. You press a couple pieces of plywood into a chamber shape and it's going to resonate completely differently every time. They are all over the map. Sometimes someone will have one that they absolutely love, and I will play it and think; fine for them, but I wouldn't want it.

The same holds for cymbals. A fellow I know has a set of K Mastersound hats that I've been unable to talk him out of. Some day I will find another pair that sound like that. I did find a set of 13's that were close, but the pitch was higher than I wanted. But the ones I've passed on might just float your boat, or someone else's. They weren't junk or rejects. Just different.
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  #204  
Old 03-20-2013, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Fair comment, A, I was thinking about one cymbal being objectively a better cymbal than another but I guess once you get to top models a lot of it is taste - more a matter that they're just closer to the marketed sound or they have broader appeal.
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  #205  
Old 03-20-2013, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
Im still waiting for the Brown truck to bring my used Zildjian A series Swish Knocker.
....
Zildjian A Swish Knocker.... Great cymbal Bob! It's the only cymbal I wish I never sold. Someday I think I'm going to try getting one back.. All those rivets... Ahhhh... Sweet.

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
...That is the reason why I bought the pie besides the fact that I needed another Zildjian cymbal to hate.
I hate my Paiste's and my Istanbul Agop's too. I hate them so much that I hit then with a stick whenever I can :)
This is hysterical!

I always say play what you love and love what you play. Screw everything else including brand name.

Zildjian along with so many other manufacturers make incredible instruments. I just realized my tastes have changed so significantly that I either had to search high and low and spend a fortune in the old K world or go to Agops and Bosphorus. Since I don't have an endless bucket of money or time, I went with new Agops and Bosphorus. Mostly all my zildjian stuff was sold other than a few I just couldn't part with.
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  #206  
Old 03-21-2013, 12:10 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

They have got a bad rep with some because of lack of consistency, but for people who own only one set of cymbals and have the chance to try out a lot this might be a good thing.


The other one would be the fact that everyone is looking for those old K's, which I guess means that the new onesaren't the same.

I don't have that many cymbals yet, but I don't see the problem with mixing different brands.

I play guitar as well and my pedalboard has virtually no brand doubling at all. Each one is from a different company based on it's unique sound and my taste. My amps and guitars are from several different manufacturers as well. So are my mics.
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  #207  
Old 03-22-2013, 01:51 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by abapicaltaenia View Post
Welllll...............

Additionally, I'm not totally sure about their quality of construction due to many things including this video from Stephen (who is on this forum occasionally, I believe).
Was just about to post that video. Stephen wasn't impressed evidently, so much that he decided to make a whole video criticizing Soultone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
The Soultone cymbals are very good indeed but their marketing strategy needs serious work. It's a shame because they have a lot to offer - potentially - and should position themselves as a Turkish maker with feet in both the past and the future. Unfortunately I won't buy any until they change their 'endorsement' system - it's not an endorsement, it's direct selling at a (supposed) discount; which isn't a discount at all but the 'endorsement' word is thrown in the snare the nave. It's a shame.

As for Zildjian? I've never played or heard one that I particularly liked. I won't write them off though, I know they make some great cymbals. In the UK they're just too expensive for what the competition offers and because they use fully-automated processes in all of their lines (not a human hand touches them) they ought to be cheaper. They're not. Inconsistency isn't an issue as far as I'm concerned (although automated manufacturing is meant to alleviate this - it doesn't). It doesn't matter because I like to try cymbals before I buy or trade and that allows me to get what I want. If I do take a chance unheard, I buy second-hand so I can flip them for what I paid. It's a good system.

No hate for Zildjian here. It's simply a case that none of their cymbals speak to me so far.
It seems to me the big 4 (Sabian, Zildjian, Meinl, Paiste) are similar enough in price range.

What particular competition to Zildjian are you referring to?
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  #208  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I've had bad luck with Zildjian (Z custom) Cymbals cracking. Therefore I mostly use Sabian.
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  #209  
Old 03-22-2013, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by Souljacker View Post
Was just about to post that video. Stephen wasn't impressed evidently, so much that he decided to make a whole video criticizing Soultone.



It seems to me the big 4 (Sabian, Zildjian, Meinl, Paiste) are similar enough in price range.

What particular competition to Zildjian are you referring to?
I'm referring to the other major manufacturers, Sabian, Paiste and Meinl. In the UK - at least when I was last shopping - Zildjian cymbals (new) were much more expensive than other major manufacturers. Even going to smaller manufacturers are remarkably good value. I purchased a new Istanbul 20" ride a few years ago for 145. A couple of years ago, I traded a pair of second-hand Sabian hi hats for brand new Murat Diril hi hats with a retail value of 140.

I have no major issue with Zildjian per se. They make very good (if somewhat inconsistent) cymbals. The issue is one of price. Zildjian make nothing by hand any more (even the Constantinople series are machine-made) so the major cost of manufacturing (labour costs) has been effectively eliminated. Why do they continue to charge? Because they can. Add to that the fact that I've never found a Zildjian I was totally happy with - although I'm sure they're out there - means that they're not the first point of call when I'm buying. I look elsewhere first.
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  #210  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Zildjian make nothing by hand any more (even the Constantinople series are machine-made) so the major cost of manufacturing (labour costs) has been effectively eliminated.
Just to clarify a little bit, it's the hammering that's all done by machine - they still do their lathing by hand on all the As and Ks.

Sabian does the majority of their hammering with machines also. It's primarily the HHs that get the small ball peen treatment, but the coverage isn't very heavy and it's not determining the shape the way it is with the Turkish makers. The HHXs use human-guided machines for the jumbo hammering. I'm not sure how they do the Artisan line, though. That might still be done by hand. I really don't know.
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  #211  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
...It's primarily the HHs that get the small ball peen treatment, but the coverage isn't very heavy and it's not determining the shape...
I’ve got a Sabian prototype HH crash that’s way more (hand) hammered than most HH cymbals. Sounds amazing. I’ve wondered whether the hammering changed the profile at all, but I guess there’s no way to really know at this point.

Edit: oh, right, it’s a Zildjian thread. Well, to me, the inconsistency of Zildjians is a bonus! I like the idea that I can try out e.g. 5 16-inch A crashes and they’re all a bit different.
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  #212  
Old 03-22-2013, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Just to clarify a little bit, it's the hammering that's all done by machine - they still do their lathing by hand on all the As and Ks.

Sabian does the majority of their hammering with machines also. It's primarily the HHs that get the small ball peen treatment, but the coverage isn't very heavy and it's not determining the shape the way it is with the Turkish makers. The HHXs use human-guided machines for the jumbo hammering. I'm not sure how they do the Artisan line, though. That might still be done by hand. I really don't know.
I'm of the impression that all Zildjians are totally machine-made. I'm happy to accept that I'm wrong, though. Sooner or later I'll have to hunt down the various articles I've read.

You're right that most Sabian cymbals that are hand hammered are only cosmetically so, the process still adds a considerable sum to the overall manufacturing cost. Paiste use machine-guided hammers and have done for years.

I'm not saying that Zildjian's process (or, my impression of it - as completely machine-made) is a bad process, just that it's cheaper.

EDIT: I found an old video of 'How It's Made' regarding Zildjian cymbals. It appears you're right - fair enough! I've traced this video back to at least 2007 so it may have changed but it looks like I've been wrong the whole time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEgpIFAGksk
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  #213  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

If I recall correctly, Sabian pioneered machine lathing for their Xs20 line to give it a lower price point, and that it's the only difference between them and AAs. As far as I know, they're the only one's who've done it using b20.
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  #214  
Old 03-23-2013, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I haven't chimed in on this yet, but I don't really see any "hate" regarding Zildjian.
Haven't seen anything here (or another site I'm on sometimes), is this a YouTube kind of thing?

I played Zildjian for a good 25+ years. I only started being rather disappointed with the company back in 2000-'01, when they made drastic changes to the A line (and said they hadn't), and they sounded like crap compared to their usual sound. Their other lines sounded good, but I wasn't into them.

I went with Sabian, and they sounded like what I wanted. They also would make any size I wanted in any model, and would change little things per request.

Zildjian would never do that, it wasn't even an option.
When discussing the A line changes, the reps would say "we have the A Custom...." (well, if I WANTED an A Custom, I would buy one...).
They'd get kinda sheepish with a, "yeah, we know, we've heard..." kind of look, so I didn't blame them-- just the person who decide to "ruin" my great sounding cymbals :-)

Sabian's AA cymbal is THE cymbal shape, weight, everything that Zildjian produced in the 70's. It's THE classic "A" cymbal (that's direct from Sabian BTW).

NOW, THIS YEAR, Zildjian goes back to a "thinner", slightly different profile (AKA: basically, back to what it was) cymbal design.
It may have been the market demand for heavier cymbals, but it just made them dead sounding to my ears.
I hope they sound great now, because it's a shame that the sound went so far down hill. Others may not have the same opinion for whatever reason, but my OLD Zildjian's sound WAY better than what they put out even a couple years ago under the A model line.

But, I'm playing Paiste cymbals now anyway, and I'm VERY happy with them :-)
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  #215  
Old 03-23-2013, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Karl, I couldn't agree with you more.

I've been playing since 2002. I started when I was fourteen. In that time I've never lusted after a Zildjian cymbal, I've never wanted one and I've never really considered one - especially as a new purchase. I've owned Paiste, Sabian, Istanbul, Murat Diril, Stagg, Dream and I've demo'd Amdeia and a few others too, I have demo'd a few Zildjians in a shop and the new Zildjians I've played in that time have near-enough all been either dead or clangy, with very little in-between.

My old University had a set of K Hybrids and an 18" 'Session' ride (the Steve Gadd model) and I hated them. One of the schools I went to had a 20" A ride, 14" A ride and 14" hi hats and even when I was relatively inexperienced and nave as a player, I hated those cymbals. Too thick, too clangy, with a profile that was too bowed.

I'm sure Zildjian can and do produce nice cymbals and have done in the last fifteen or so years but unfortunately I've only heard one or two that I thought were any good. Since they changed the weights, they just haven't been very good. As a result, I stuck with Sabian cymbals for the first five years or so of my drumming.
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  #216  
Old 03-30-2013, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I can see why a lot of people may not like Zildjian, since their quality has went downhill since the late 90's. But by the looks of it, they're upping their game!

I've only been playing since 2007, so I never played a 90's Zildjian. But I know a lot about them, and I've heard quite a few. They sound great! I own a few Zildjian A's, and I love them! But I've had 6 Zildjian EFX crashes. I'm not a hard hitter, but they don't last. Since then, I've moved to Sabian HHX's, and I really like them. They're durable, yet versatile like Zildjians but they feel great for what I'm playing. Will I buy more Zildjians? Probably.

Zildjian don't stand anywhere near Sabian or Meinl, because they don't experiment and take as much pride as they could be. But thank the Lord, they discontinued Z3's.
Bring back Z's!

Zildjian? Great cymbals.
I just prefer Sabian.
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  #217  
Old 03-30-2013, 01:25 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by Stalwart_Pandora-Chris View Post
Zildjian don't stand anywhere near Sabian or Meinl, because they don't experiment and take as much pride as they could be...
Are you suggesting that Zildjian does not take the same care within the development of their product as their rivals? if so, it's absolute nonsense, Zildjian is a leading manufacturer within the cymbal industry, the fact that some prefer other brands (like you) doesn't imply that their product is inferior or sub-standard compared to the rival companies, it's completely absurd to think otherwise.
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  #218  
Old 09-03-2015, 04:56 PM
65Drummer 65Drummer is offline
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I have been using Zildjians since the 1960's. They are great cymbals. They make up the majority of my set up. However, I also use Paiste 602's & 2002's & Sabian B8 Pro's. It is good to have different voices available for the varieties of genres. It would be good to point out that Sabian cymbals are actually made by a Zildjian family member, Robert Zildjian. It was said after Aveidis passed on, there was a disagreement between Armond & Robert so Robert took over the Canadian plant. I believe in experimenting with different kinds of cymbals, all have something to offer, all have good cymbals & all have "junk" which is fine for beginners who are not yet committed to the craft. To say Zildjians are not good shows ignorance, it sounds like a bling thing. All are good, all have something to offer.
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  #219  
Old 09-03-2015, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Zildjian all the way for me personally.
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  #220  
Old 09-03-2015, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Go in IT websites and you'll say the same about Microsoft..........go on Football (Soccer) sites and you'll say the same about Man Utd

Everyone likes to knock people at the top.
Agreed. Same goes for DW, iPhones, BOSE, Porsche or any brand which is considered top level. People criticize the tiniest detail, because they think a market leader should have super-human properties. Yet they'll accept much lower quality from 'just as good' cheaper brands.
e.g. I've seen metal players complaining that they cracked their K cymbals after only 'x' number of gigs.
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  #221  
Old 09-05-2015, 07:16 PM
Heavy Edge Heavy Edge is offline
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Haters gonna hate. I just started drumming again, and ended up with a set of Zildjian K's because I happened to find a good price on them. I can totally see them being the wrong cymbals for any number applications. Actually, the ride and the crash are pretty different than I thought they would be, and what I was after. But it doesn't matter to me. They still sound good, and I'm having fun learning what they can do. Maybe someday I'll change them out, but not anytime soon.

I don't know. I'm really a guitar player. I lost count of how many guitars I have. Not every one is right for every job, but they're all right for some job. Don't you really just want to have all the tools you need for everything you want to do?
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  #222  
Old 09-05-2015, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I love my new Zildjian A customs. First set and new cymbals after 24 years. Bad ass!
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  #223  
Old 09-06-2015, 04:38 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I think there is some voodoo in the zildjian line where if you mix other cymbals in the line up, they never quite fit in. Some of the wuhans and gongs From China seem to work, but definitely not sabian or paste.
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  #224  
Old 09-06-2015, 05:10 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Me too. When I started playing, your only choice was either Zildjian A's or Paistes (the 2002 line was coming on about then). So my choice was made for me because Zildjians were plentiful used and most of my favorite players were using them anyway.

When you go to the NAMM show, you see so many different cymbal makers now it makes your head spin. Somebody said all the "turkish" cymbal brands are actually coming out of one factory over there, and then those individual companies brand them all and send them to market. And for me, after a day of pinging on cymbals at NAMM, I could no longer tell a difference if I was listening to a top flight Zildjian, or some new upstart cymbal company being run by one guy in Wisconsin.

But at this point the in game, I've had a majority of my Zildjians for over 20 years now (I just added my 22" K Light Ride about a year ago now), and I don't play out as much as I used to, so I may be on my absolute last set of cymbals (and drums) from here on out. I'm happy to play the Zildjians I have.
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  #225  
Old 09-06-2015, 05:17 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
When you go to the NAMM show, you see so many different cymbal makers now it makes your head spin. Somebody said all the "turkish" cymbal brands are actually coming out of one factory over there, and then those individual companies brand them all and send them to market. .
Pretty much. And it seems every year these small brands multiple like rabbits.

They all sound good, but they also all sound the same. I can't figure out how anyone can really distinguish between the 10,000 various "turkish" cymbal brands.
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  #226  
Old 09-06-2015, 06:53 AM
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Pretty much. And it seems every year these small brands multiple like rabbits.

They all sound good, but they also all sound the same. I can't figure out how anyone can really distinguish between the 10,000 various "turkish" cymbal brands.
Agreed. In a way, when there was just Zildjian and Paiste (and maybe a little company called Tosco), it was much easier to see where the differences were. A. Zildjians are bright, but Paiste 2002s were brighter, and claimed that each one was exactly the same - so if you broke your 2002 crash, you could get another one and carry on. K Zildjians back then were all over the place quality-wise so it was hard to find a nice one sometimes.

But I go to Bosphorus, and they sound like SoulTones, and those sound like Diril, and those sound like.....hence why I believe they're all coming from the same Turkish factory ;)
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  #227  
Old 09-06-2015, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I've always played Paiste but I hold Zildjian in the highest regard as an instrument.
Here's a little (dated) video I discovered today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeBMeBigevk
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  #228  
Old 09-06-2015, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Nothing they sound right to my ears and my kit setup!
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  #229  
Old 09-06-2015, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
I haven't chimed in on this yet, but I don't really see any "hate" regarding Zildjian.
Haven't seen anything here (or another site I'm on sometimes), is this a YouTube kind of thing?

I played Zildjian for a good 25+ years. I only started being rather disappointed with the company back in 2000-'01, when they made drastic changes to the A line (and said they hadn't), and they sounded like crap compared to their usual sound. Their other lines sounded good, but I wasn't into them.

I went with Sabian, and they sounded like what I wanted. They also would make any size I wanted in any model, and would change little things per request.

Zildjian would never do that, it wasn't even an option.
When discussing the A line changes, the reps would say "we have the A Custom...." (well, if I WANTED an A Custom, I would buy one...).
They'd get kinda sheepish with a, "yeah, we know, we've heard..." kind of look, so I didn't blame them-- just the person who decide to "ruin" my great sounding cymbals :-)

Sabian's AA cymbal is THE cymbal shape, weight, everything that Zildjian produced in the 70's. It's THE classic "A" cymbal (that's direct from Sabian BTW).

NOW, THIS YEAR, Zildjian goes back to a "thinner", slightly different profile (AKA: basically, back to what it was) cymbal design.
It may have been the market demand for heavier cymbals, but it just made them dead sounding to my ears.
I hope they sound great now, because it's a shame that the sound went so far down hill. Others may not have the same opinion for whatever reason, but my OLD Zildjian's sound WAY better than what they put out even a couple years ago under the A model line.

But, I'm playing Paiste cymbals now anyway, and I'm VERY happy with them :-)
The A custom was an Edsel.

I have heard exactly one that was OK (anniversary 21 inch ride).

They were overpriced and just not up to the sound standards I remember from the 70's and 80's.
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  #230  
Old 09-07-2015, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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But I go to Bosphorus, and they sound like SoulTones, and those sound like Diril, and those sound like.....hence why I believe they're all coming from the same Turkish factory ;)
True to an extent. A lot of the smaller manufacturers buy their blanks from one or two foundries (Masterworks being a big one). Others (Agop) make their own cymbals from the ground up, then the lathing, hammering and finishing is done by the company that put the stamp on the cymbal.

A lot of the companies in the Turkish market were started by ex-employees of Zildjian after Zildjian moved all of their operations to the US in the late 70s/early 80s. Even though a lot of them are now owned by a 'second generation' that didn't directly work at Zildjian, the traditional manufacturing is still taught, so what's ended up happening is that we have a cluster of companies making what are effectively Zildjian K cymbals. The same holds true now as it was when Ks were being made - quality is inconsistent and they are hand made. So you need to try before you buy.
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  #231  
Old 09-08-2015, 07:55 AM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

<shrug> I've been using the same Zildjian A's for probably about 15 years. I've certainly heard other cymbals in that time, but nothing that made me want to switch. Every now and again I end up playing a friend's kit who is a Sabian endorser, and it just reaffirms (in my ears anyway) how much I like the Zildjians better.
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  #232  
Old 09-08-2015, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I know for a fact that Agop has their own factory, someone on an old drum forum took a tour to their factory about 8-10 years ago and took many excellent pictures. But yeah, everyone else mostly uses the same factory.

I will say that Zildjians make the best ride cymbals. They also make the best hi-hats, but that's specific to New Beats (my favorite cymbal). Crashes, splashes, chinas, etc. anyone can be good at, but I've always loved Zildjian rides consistently across their lines, whether its an A, K, vintage, modern.
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  #233  
Old 09-11-2016, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I like zildjian. I think there are a few faddy trends in cymbals right now but if I could only choose one brand it might be zildjian or sabian. I just got new beats, a sweet ride, and 2 medium thin crashes, 16 and 18 the other week, a matching set.

I have typically bought cymbals on their individual merit, my setups are usually a very mixed bag of brands and series, e.g bright crashes, jazzy rides and lighter hats, but I wanted some newbeats and it turned out the best way to do it was to buy a used cymbal set and sell what I don't need (I sold the effect cymbals immediately).

These A's seemed a bit dull in comparison, actually the 18 is a dud in my opinion but after a few days I can see they have merit... and playing in band situations over the last week I have really grown to dig zildjian A's. They aren't trying to be super loud or bright or cutting or exaggerated in any way, they're nice, mellow cymbals.

They're probably the most popular series in the world if I'm not mistaken?

I am selling the 18 but I think I'll keep the rest. Average is not a bad thing.
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  #234  
Old 09-11-2016, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

There's just something about those New Beats. I'm loving my new El Sonido crash ride because most crash rides don't do either well. Not true in this case. It's a Sound Effects cymbal.
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  #235  
Old 09-11-2016, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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I am selling the 18 but I think I'll keep the rest. Average is not a bad thing.
You must have gotten a bad one. I think the 18 medium thin A crash sounds excellent along with a terrific bell.
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  #236  
Old 09-11-2016, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I have a Zildjian rock 21" ride from 1973. Bought it new. Probably has a thousand gigs on it. I doubt I'll ever buy another ride cymbal the rest of my life. I have 16,17,18 Zildjian crashes ranging from thin to medium. Some newer, some older. They sound marvelous.

Hi-hats are 14" Paiste 2002 sound edge and are 40+ years old. Won't be replacing these ever either.

Bottom line: Find what works for YOU! Don't be suckered in with marketing fads or other peeps opinions.
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  #237  
Old 09-11-2016, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

Zildjian is like Ford, or Harley-Davidson. They were there first, got most of the market, and keep up with innovation. They're not going away, so people rail against them because that's what people like to do to the mainstream. But even like Craftsman tools, they're stuff works, and defined what works for centuries, so I doubt Zildjian even balks at any unfounded claims against it.

I've had my Zildjians for almost 30 years now, making an acquisition every now and then. They work for me. I'd like to try some Paiste Traditionals but the prices are too high to get another brand that sounds just slightly different from what I already have.
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  #238  
Old 09-12-2016, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

I've owned a fair amount of Zildjians over the last fourteen years, and I've played a bunch of As from the 60s and 70s that were wonderful - I've got a 70s New Beat Top as my main pair of 14" hats. I picked up a prototype Renaissance Ride a few years ago, and at one point I had a 22" ride from the 40s. I should have kept that one.

New Zildjians just leave me cold. I don't really know that I could tell you why, either - they're just missing a soul to my ears. I've visited the factory and the people that work there are great, and they're passionate about making as good a product as possible, but it's just... missing something to my ears.

Ten years ago A Zildjians were missing tone overall. They were too heavy (and had been since the 80s, as I learned) and produced a clang unlike anything I've heard that didn't have a big Z or the word "power" on it. The current-model As are an immense improvement over those As of decades past, and I think they sound great.

To me, Zildjian's characteristic sound comes from a large bell - most of their cymbals use the same bell stamp for whatever size they are, regardless of range. You can take an 18" A Medium-Thin and you'll see that it has the same size bell as a K Constantinople Crash - it's about two inches tall and four-ish inches around. It's a bigger bell than most of my ride cymbals have, and it's a bell shape that isn't even used on KCons outside of the Big Band Ride - why would you put a bigger bell on a crash cymbal? 17" and smaller crashes also use the same bell stamp, but it's a smaller bell. To me, that makes it sound like there are two ranges of cymbals within the same model, with the smaller cymbals often sounding splashy and the bigger cymbals being drastically louder, oftentimes louder than a comparable ride.

A Zildjians from days past didn't always have such a huge bell and I wish they'd make some crashes that had a bell that didn't overwhelm the sound of the cymbal so much. Well, the Avedis and Kerope lines don't suffer from big-bell syndrome.

But all of my gripes are solved in Paiste's Masters and 602 Modern lines, so that's what I've been buying.
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  #239  
Old 09-14-2016, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
Zildjian is like Harley-Davidson. They were there first, got most of the market, and stay 15-40 years behind the innovation so they can sell their laziness to you at a premium calling it "vintage" or "timeless"
Fixed. :)

Zildjians were my first cymbals. I moved on from them in the mid 90s when (to a drummer who only had access to non chain stores) it seemed like they were forcing the A Customs down our throats. They make a few models every so often that my ears love, but overall I tend to find the lines very uninspiring.
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  #240  
Old 09-14-2016, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: What's with Zildjian hate??

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Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
I've had my Zildjians for almost 30 years now, making an acquisition every now and then. They work for me. I'd like to try some Paiste Traditionals but the prices are too high to get another brand that sounds just slightly different from what I already have.
Exactly! Why pay an extra hundred extra dollars for something that's only slightly different?
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