DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 10-30-2009, 06:05 AM
Fishnmusicn's Avatar
Fishnmusicn Fishnmusicn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Norristown,Pa USA
Posts: 234
Default Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

I'm just wondering, I don't think it's necessarily so, but I think if you play well it helps.

I responded to an ad on Craigslist for drum lessons just to see what the guy was about, lots of mention about using drum method books that were listed, the Moeller technique, etc., a very large buildup.

I always request to hear any examples of the ad posters playing. I was really kind of taken aback with the actual playing of this guy - it just really wasn't all that good and sounded like all the other not so good drummers out there, just very mediocre, and the level of musicians he played with were also subpar.

With all the hype in the ad about chopbuilding and getting a killer beat, I was hoping to hear some of that but to no avail.

We emailed back and forth a bit, and I tried to give him my opinion without getting too critical, but it would have been better having heard his playing, not to respond. Actually I did just that, but he emailed me after he hadn't heard, and I gave him my honest opinion which set him off.

His main point back to me was that he didn't have to be a good player to teach, he could convey his teaching style to his students and get them to learn. It made sense to me, but it still bugs me that he doesn't play all that well.

Just wondering what the consensus might be regarding how well a teacher plays, maybe it comes down more to how well they teach... Still disappointing to me when I wasn't hearing what he was claiming in his playing...

Fishnmusicn
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-30-2009, 06:16 AM
wy yung
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

I think being able to play is important. Perhaps also as important is the ability to communicate with patience and understanding. Having knowledge of the instrument if high on the list. I know a guy who is a great player, has amazing knowledge of the instrument but who in my opinion is a terrible teacher.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-30-2009, 09:45 AM
grannydrums's Avatar
grannydrums grannydrums is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: london England
Posts: 137
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

I have had several teachers, and to me the best ones were the ones that did not keep getting on the kit to show how good they were, but the ones that had me on the kit and could look at what I was doing, analyse it and point out how I could improve.

A couple of teachers I have tried were obviously good drummers and turned up with tried and tested books and lesson routines, but were not able to look at me as a player and taylor the lesson to my needs.

I always found the best teachers were those that did it full time as their main source of income rather than a gigging drummer who was using it for a bit of extra cash between gigs.

I dont think you can assess a teacher until you try them out.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-30-2009, 11:47 AM
Fishnmusicn's Avatar
Fishnmusicn Fishnmusicn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Norristown,Pa USA
Posts: 234
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

I've heard this before, that there are very good players that are lousy teachers - guess it makes sense with the number of instructors out there.

Without getting into who this guy is, his website says on the front page - "Drummers - Get a Backbeat that cuts like a knife". Should follow at least to me that I am going to want to hear that in his playing, and it's just not there. A little misleading to me.

I hear him dragging time and executing some awkward fills, doesn't fit. This is why I would want to take some lessons, I used to do the same thing when I recorded myself.

I use this analogy also. I took piano lessons a few years ago. The teacher was an incredible player who plays out, but he also was a patient and understanding person that did a great job teaching. I wouldn't want to take those lessons with a keyboardist that did not play well, it wouldn't make sense to me.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-30-2009, 12:44 PM
Boomka Boomka is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,329
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Yes, though I don't think you need to be an elite player to be a great teacher. It takes more than the intuitive ability to play the drums well to teach. It takes an analytical side and the ability to communicate that analysis effectively. Those skills don't always come as a package, however.

There is more to teaching than just building up someone's chops and coordination. There's the experience and wisdom that comes from time in the trenches, in real playing situations. Only there can you learn what it takes to get the job done. I hope I help my students not only to play their instruments, but prepare them to be professional players and survive in the music business. And the skills it takes to do that change all the time as the industry changes. If you don't have your nose in the thick of things, you can't know what those skills are. For example, have a gander at Bermuda Schwartz's thread here, or check out his stuff at Drummercafe.com and find any video you can of his clinics. You'll rarely see a whole load of blazing chops on display, but you will find oodles of sage advice from an insider on what it takes to build and maintain a successful career. He can back up every word he says because he's doing it. Being a good "player" means more than simply being able to smack some drums well.

I think of my own amazing teachers and they've given me far, far more than drills, exercises and pointers on my technique (though I've been roasted too many times to count...) They've given me (and continue to give me) support, friendship, confidence and, above all, mentoring. When I call one of them up because I've got a dilemma in my own playing/career and need a sounding board, I know they've been there before and have found a way to adapt and keep their careers moving forward. A good teacher/student relationship goes beyond the practice studio and lasts long after the student has been cut loose to walk their own path.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-30-2009, 02:46 PM
Fishnmusicn's Avatar
Fishnmusicn Fishnmusicn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Norristown,Pa USA
Posts: 234
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomka View Post
Yes, though I don't think you need to be an elite player to be a great teacher. It takes more than the intuitive ability to play the drums well to teach. It takes an analytical side and the ability to communicate that analysis effectively. Those skills don't always come as a package, however.

There is more to teaching than just building up someone's chops and coordination. There's the experience and wisdom that comes from time in the trenches, in real playing situations. Only there can you learn what it takes to get the job done. I hope I help my students not only to play their instruments, but prepare them to be professional players and survive in the music business. And the skills it takes to do that change all the time as the industry changes. If you don't have your nose in the thick of things, you can't know what those skills are. For example, have a gander at Bermuda Schwartz's thread here, or check out his stuff at Drummercafe.com and find any video you can of his clinics. You'll rarely see a whole load of blazing chops on display, but you will find oodles of sage advice from an insider on what it takes to build and maintain a successful career. He can back up every word he says because he's doing it. Being a good "player" means more than simply being able to smack some drums well.

I think of my own amazing teachers and they've given me far, far more than drills, exercises and pointers on my technique (though I've been roasted too many times to count...) They've given me (and continue to give me) support, friendship, confidence and, above all, mentoring. When I call one of them up because I've got a dilemma in my own playing/career and need a sounding board, I know they've been there before and have found a way to adapt and keep their careers moving forward. A good teacher/student relationship goes beyond the practice studio and lasts long after the student has been cut loose to walk their own path.
I checked out JBS' website, good stuff - I'm not talking here about chops ability, but just being a good enough player to back all the hype up - GET A BACKBEAT THAT CUTS LIKE A KNIFE - please gimme a break if you're not at least a good player, don't need elite, it's just misleading again...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-30-2009, 03:12 PM
mrchattr's Avatar
mrchattr mrchattr is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Posts: 1,439
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Teaching is the conveying of your knowledge and skills to others. If a drummer doesn't even realize that he slows down his own time, he probably won't realize it if you are, too.

I constantly get students that come to me with really bad habits because that's what they learned from their last teacher...because the last teacher had the bad habit, so didn't know how to correct it, or that it needed correcting.

I also think about it this way: to be a middle school math teacher, you have to have taken courses in not just that math, but algebra, algebra II, geometry, trig, calc, etc. The reason why is that you don't just need to understand HOW to do something, but WHY you do it that way, in order to truly convey it with ease and understandability, and also how it applies in other situations than what is mentioned in the book, in case kids have questions about that. The same is true about drumming.
__________________
Saluda Cymbals Endorser
Silver Fox Endorser

www.rossidrums.com
MySpace: rossidrums
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-30-2009, 04:23 PM
Moduck's Rhythm's Avatar
Moduck's Rhythm Moduck's Rhythm is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 15
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

If someone is a good teacher and a bad player... They're Lazy
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-31-2009, 08:46 PM
what the funk of it's Avatar
what the funk of it what the funk of it is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 156
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

There is something to be said about people with a knack for teaching. I've taken lessons from some great teachers and some not so great ones but they had one thing in common - they were all excellent players. I feel that one day I could be a pretty solid teacher. I might just have that knack ...maybe... Not today though.
Last spring I turned down an opportunity to teach at a small teaching studio because feel that I am simply not good enough and am lacking experience. (Not to say I can't do just as good a job as some of their current instrucors...)

Bottom line: I will never pay for lessons with someone who isn't at least twice the drummer I am.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-31-2009, 10:17 PM
jeffwj's Avatar
jeffwj jeffwj is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 2,047
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

I have never really had any experiences with teachers that couldn't play. Most likely because I sought them ou based on hearing them first.

If you're still looking into finding a teacher, I have heard good things about Dan Monaghan. I know he teaches at Temple in Phila. I'm not sure if he does private lessons outside of school.
http://www.temple.edu/boyer/AppDev/port.asp?portID=376

One of my former students is also playing and teaching in Philly and doing very well. If you'd like his contact info, please PM me.

Jeff
__________________
Johnson Drum Instruction - Drum Lessons in Richmond, VA
Author of "The Level System"
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-31-2009, 10:49 PM
con struct's Avatar
con struct con struct is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lumpen post-industrial district
Posts: 2,063
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Interesting question. Probably you should ask yourself if you'd want to be taught by someone who isn't a good player.
I don't see teaching a musical instrument as being in the same realm as, say, teaching history. A good history teacher could very well be a mediocre historian and still do the job very well, but when it comes to teaching a musical instrument mediocre, in my opinion, just won't cut it.
__________________
Call me J
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-31-2009, 11:33 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,368
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

If you can't play at all, then any student would be as well off to buy videos and be able to watch what they are being told to do. Some bit of expertise is necessary.
And what do you do when your student catches up to your skill level??
__________________
Johnny. Pictured left to right, Bermuda, Weird Al, Grunt.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-01-2009, 02:04 PM
Malti's Avatar
Malti Malti is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 180
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

#1) You can't teach what you do not know.
#2) Just because you have the experience, knowledge and skill, as a teacher you must be able to transfer that knowledge to your students. You really need to be able to understand that not everyone has the same learning style (some are more visual, some more auditory, then there's kinesthetic, etc..) A good teacher will be able to address all those issues and present the lesson accordingly.

I'm a part time riding instructor. I have no problem referring a potential student to a higher level instructor once they've exceeded my ability to advance them.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-01-2009, 02:31 PM
pbloxam's Avatar
pbloxam pbloxam is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 104
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

I can't remember the line but it goes something like those that can't play well should become teachers....

My experience is that many who teach are not great or phenomenal players but great at teaching...

Then again, I have had some great teachers who are great players but they cost a great deal...

No I don't believe you have be a great player to teach and the majority of teachers or instructors are not Thomas Langs or Buddy Richs, or John Rileys, etc...

They are average players at best...

That doesn't mean that great players are great teachers...Many of the greats don't have the patience to teach...

It does take a certain person to teach... It's not easy...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-01-2009, 02:49 PM
NUTHA JASON's Avatar
NUTHA JASON NUTHA JASON is offline
Senior Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: london
Posts: 3,925
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

is freddy gruber a good drummer?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-01-2009, 03:29 PM
Hedon Hedon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 153
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbloxam View Post
I can't remember the line but it goes something like those that can't play well should become teachers....

My experience is that many who teach are not great or phenomenal players but great at teaching...

Then again, I have had some great teachers who are great players but they cost a great deal...

No I don't believe you have be a great player to teach and the majority of teachers or instructors are not Thomas Langs or Buddy Richs, or John Rileys, etc...

They are average players at best...

That doesn't mean that great players are great teachers...Many of the greats don't have the patience to teach...

It does take a certain person to teach... It's not easy...
depends what you call average
obviously not all teachers are thomas langs because there are only few on that level worldwide but i do think a teacher should be a very high level player

heres mine!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrlsARU9ty8
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-01-2009, 03:38 PM
TTNW's Avatar
TTNW TTNW is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 2,010
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Yes you need to be a good player to be a good teacher.

The qualities that make up both are very different.

If you're teaching someone to play drumset, it's a must. If you're looking for fundamentals, then a good teacher's drumset playing is less important than whether they translate their command of the fundamentals to the kit well.

If all you want to do is learn the basics, you can forego a better player over having a better teacher. Otherwise, a good teacher has to at least be able to demonstrate what he is trying to get you to learn.

Drumming is not football, coach.
__________________
Philippe - Eat, Sleep and Drum.. .. it makes for a good weekend.

Last edited by TTNW; 11-01-2009 at 04:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-01-2009, 03:43 PM
cnw60's Avatar
cnw60 cnw60 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: AVL
Posts: 461
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

fwiw - all of my teachers have been very good players, with abilities well beyond my own.


and from my first teacher:

"to teach an art with fruitful results we must first understand our craft, then the art, and finally the pupil whom we have undertaken to initiate."
__________________
"practice, practice - all things are coming" Sri K. Pattabhi Jois
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-01-2009, 04:01 PM
pbloxam's Avatar
pbloxam pbloxam is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 104
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedon View Post
depends what you call average
obviously not all teachers are thomas langs because there are only few on that level worldwide but i do think a teacher should be a very high level player

heres mine!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrlsARU9ty8
I agree!! You have to have a command of what you are teaching or you are wasting the clients time and money....

My point is that there are a lot of quote unquote teachers out there or people claiming to be teachers who really can't teach regardless of their level of playing...

Many have a better grasp of theory but their actual playing skills aren't on the same level...

I listened/watched your video... Very impressive....Hand/kit skills like yours are what you hope a good teacher would have and great knowledge of theory but reality is that most
do not have the chop/skills you posess...

At least not in my area...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-01-2009, 04:52 PM
PQleyR's Avatar
PQleyR PQleyR is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Godalming, UK
Posts: 2,372
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

My opinion on this is fairly simple...

Just because someone is a good player doesn't mean they are a good teacher. However, a bad player can't teach someone to play better than them, because they haven't reached that understanding in themselves yet. The most important thing about teaching is inspiring your student. Without that, their motivation to learn will be sapped, and it might even slow their progress. Teaching is about more than simply problem-solving...it's important to be able to remind people why they want to do the thing in the first place.

I had a guitar teacher for some time who would ask me to improve aspects of my technique that he himself was sloppy at, or explain something to me and then demonstrate it in a technically deficient way. Consequently I had less respect for his opinions on my technique, and was left confused about the direction I should take to improve myself.
__________________
Dream Cymbals
Los Cabos Drumsticks
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-01-2009, 04:57 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,368
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Think back to your high school days. We all had people we thought were terrible teachers. They had the knowledge, had their degrees, had their certifications but just couldn't explain how to turn a light on. It helps to be able to play, but you have to be a communicator and illustrator a well.
__________________
Johnny. Pictured left to right, Bermuda, Weird Al, Grunt.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-01-2009, 06:44 PM
Hedon Hedon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 153
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbloxam View Post
I agree!! You have to have a command of what you are teaching or you are wasting the clients time and money....

My point is that there are a lot of quote unquote teachers out there or people claiming to be teachers who really can't teach regardless of their level of playing...

Many have a better grasp of theory but their actual playing skills aren't on the same level...

I listened/watched your video... Very impressive....Hand/kit skills like yours are what you hope a good teacher would have and great knowledge of theory but reality is that most
do not have the chop/skills you posess...

At least not in my area...
oh damn no thats not me thats my teacher! he's really cool though and teaching full time for a few years now (his main source of income). he has a whole system for teaching and i think its working pretty well. i think his own technique and physical ability are not at the peak because he's giving a lot of lessons and less time to practice, but many of his former students are getting reputations as some of the best drummers around. he's also studio drummer for the most well known israeli metal band orphaned land. i guess all that credit is what makes it pretty damn expensive though :\
which brings up another question, its not always easy to say if you're paying your hard worked for money for the name and reputation only, or if the guy is really a good enough teacher for that amount of cash
im pretty sure mine deserves it though
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-01-2009, 07:27 PM
pbloxam's Avatar
pbloxam pbloxam is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 104
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedon View Post
oh damn no thats not me thats my teacher! he's really cool though and teaching full time for a few years now (his main source of income). he has a whole system for teaching and i think its working pretty well. i think his own technique and physical ability are not at the peak because he's giving a lot of lessons and less time to practice, but many of his former students are getting reputations as some of the best drummers around. he's also studio drummer for the most well known israeli metal band orphaned land. i guess all that credit is what makes it pretty damn expensive though :\
which brings up another question, its not always easy to say if you're paying your hard worked for money for the name and reputation only, or if the guy is really a good enough teacher for that amount of cash
im pretty sure mine deserves it though
Sounds like you have the teacher for you...you have achieved nirvana....

That is a good thing...
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-02-2009, 02:53 AM
wy yung
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Interesting replies. Especially those mentioning teachers who tend to show off to students. I've known teachers like this. I remember hearing a blaze of chops coming from a teaching room. I wondered what was going on and who the student was. Then a 7 year old walked out! The teacher had been putting on a performance.

My philosophy is that the lesson is not about me, it is about the student. Some more advanced guys may want to come in and have a blast playing fours. That's fine. Another may have a specific technical question. Or I may have a kid that never practices, is not inclined to read and may simply want to play to a Michael Jackson record. I do what needs to be done. If not, the student may leave and give up drums.

I think the ability to read personalities, to have learned how to deal with people is highly important in a teacher. Communicating ideas, being able to analyse a problem and offer a solution is vital. In this case a teacher needs to know what he is doing. A bad drummer can only teach bad habbits. Experience is of great importance.

Does a teacher need to be a gigging drummer? I think it is not as important as some. I teach more than I perform these days. Mainly because after thousands of gigs I'm tired. I am sick of loading out at 3 am surrounded by drunks. Or having to sit on steps while I wait for a brawl to finish in a foyer. I'm sick of people ripping off gear, sick of dealing with guitarists!

But I love teaching and sharing my knowledge. It's why I'm here.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-02-2009, 12:08 PM
Big_Philly
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

I don't think you need to be an extroardinarily good drummer, but you need to at least be better than your pupils, and be willing to keep it that way. And you need to know and understand what you're doing when you play and why you do it. I am by no means a brilliant drummer, but I have a solid timing and good groove, and have enough band / gigging experience to share some stories and experiences with my pupils.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-02-2009, 03:10 PM
Tony_Here's Avatar
Tony_Here Tony_Here is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 19
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Haven't you ever heard the saying.....
"Those that can, do.. Those that can't, teach".... heh
__________________
Freedom costs a buck o' five.....
Mapex Saturn - Sabian HHX - DW Pedals
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-03-2009, 05:41 AM
mrchattr's Avatar
mrchattr mrchattr is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Posts: 1,439
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Think back to your high school days. We all had people we thought were terrible teachers. They had the knowledge, had their degrees, had their certifications but just couldn't explain how to turn a light on. It helps to be able to play, but you have to be a communicator and illustrator a well.
With drumming, though, it's not the same as just sharing knowledge in a book. You have to be able to show the student what they are doing wrong, understand how they are playing, and how they are supposed to be playing. If you aren't a good drummer, you can't accomplish this. I agree that you have to be a communicator and illustrator as well...teaching a 4 year old will quickly teach you how to think about those things in unique ways!...but if you can't play, you can't teach.
__________________
Saluda Cymbals Endorser
Silver Fox Endorser

www.rossidrums.com
MySpace: rossidrums
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-03-2009, 08:22 AM
Dedworx Dedworx is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 281
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

i can only speak subjectively, for myself. but i would only get lessons from someone a lot better than me. and probably much much older too.

i question everything and i think if you're paying money to learn you should be able to be shown the answers to your questions as well as just verbally have them answered.

these days i look more for conversations about concepts/experiences to get better but i think its important to be able to illustrate things rather than just leave them as suggestions.
__________________
www.youtube.com/drumgroovemusic.- new video every monday!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-07-2009, 01:55 PM
ChipJohns's Avatar
ChipJohns ChipJohns is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Savannah GA
Posts: 393
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

I am in the education industry, I have instructed and I am an instructional designer. Not that this makes me authoritative in any manner, but, everyday, I do live with the perspective where some students are better than their instructors.

When it comes to education I usually tend to use the example of a Basketball coach. Even in High School, most players on the team can beat the coach on a one on one.

However, I feel that instruction is different. As the question asks what is the qualifications for a good "teacher." In this case I will yield to my example above. Just as a music teacher in most settings above high school cannot outplay most of their students.

Now for the down beat. What we call "teachers" should probably be referred to as "INSTRUCTORS." Instructors do their fair amount of teaching, however, teachers usually do not do that much instruction.

If I wanted to find someone to help me play the drums better, I would seek out an instructor. Someone who has the ability to "show me"

---

The next step.
Some of us will improve to the point where it is going to be difficult to find someone who has better chops than you. Who does someone like Steve Smith turn to.

Now I will use the example of a Golf Pro. A good golf pro can look at someone like Tiger Woods, (who he will never be able to match on the golf course,) yet still help him improve his game.

There are drum instructors out there that can do the same..
I know a drum instructor, for instance, that one drum lesson from him and you will take three strokes off your game. @:-O -- You get my point though!?
__________________
~Chip
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-07-2009, 02:24 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,368
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Perfect timing. This months DRUM Magazine has a great article on teaching drums. It is written from the perspective that you have some time and you have some knowledge so why not. It does not talk about getting a degree or majoring in music in order to be a good teacher. One quick tip on the front page, "If you have a temper, stop right here and read no further." I have a teaching degree in Physical Education, or as they call it now to make it look more "elite" Kinesiology. This is a four year degree with a Bachelors in Science when you finish. You have to learn the basics of all sports, games, so that you can teach them, not excel at them.The emphasis is training you to teach those skills not make the big leagues playing them. There will be students who can dribble, shoot, throw, kick better than you but you are trained to look for errors in their motion. I myself am a terrible bowler but use to watch and critique a friend of mine who was a professional bowler. I could see flaws in his delivery, release etc, but would never beat this guy in a 100 years. If you want to teach you have to have some skills. You must also stay within those skills or you will set yourself up for a miserable fall. If you can communicate what you know in clear and concise language it will help. Read the article in this months DRUM Magazine and see what they have to say.
__________________
Johnny. Pictured left to right, Bermuda, Weird Al, Grunt.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 11-07-2009, 07:32 PM
Deltadrummer's Avatar
Deltadrummer Deltadrummer is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 2,681
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

I've had many teachers in my day and a good teacher is a good teacher. You do get a lot of teachers in academia who have less years experience with a subject as the number of years since they have actually done something in their area, like teachers who taught for k-12 for ten years but it's been twenty years since they've seen the inside of classroom. On the other hand, I have taken lessons with noted progessionals who spend more time on the phone than with the student. There are also students who go to noted teachers who I have worked with and get nothing out of it. It's not always the instructor.

Anthropologists, like Max Weber and Claude Levi Strauss who just died at 100, deal with the aspect of practicality of study and its objectivity. If I give you my experience as a professional, I am giving you one man's perspective. But a teacher who has studied with many teachers, seen many clinics, and talked to many pros over the course of decades will have greater insight because he has internalized many perspectives, he is not just giving one.

Of course most of your teaching is going to be with kids and even noted professionals work a lot with ten year olds, which is actually a great age to teach music in my experience. They really don't need your years of experience playing with cover bands and metal bands throughout the local metropolis. They need someone who can cater to the needs, keep them of a clear path, help them with their struggles and encourage them through the rough spots.
__________________
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go"
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-08-2009, 02:12 AM
wy yung
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Do you need to be a good player to be a good teacher?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltadrummer View Post

Of course most of your teaching is going to be with kids and even noted professionals work a lot with ten year olds, which is actually a great age to teach music in my experience. They really don't need your years of experience playing with cover bands and metal bands throughout the local metropolis. They need someone who can cater to the needs, keep them of a clear path, help them with their struggles and encourage them through the rough spots.
I agree. This is pretty much my life.

Dealing with pro's is different. A pro' will come in and say "I just think there is a problem but am unsure what it is I need to do. Can you take a look?"

Often the simple solution is slow work on the problem with a metronome. It turns out that accuracy was the problem. It may be a minor degree. But that guy needed help to see it.

Then it could be something like "I need help with shuffles", or "Can you teach me Afro Cuban?" It's always specific with advanced guys.

The kids just want to have fun and take something from it. Dealing with teenagers is then a different game to the pre teens. One has to deal with insecurities with teens. I have one 16 year old who stated one day "Teach me fusion!!!!" Er, okay, but fusion is a mix of styles. It may be better to learn the basics of those styles first. So off we went until he got an exercise that threw him. Now he is shy. The lesson was not beyond him but required a certain amount of practice. His old teacher just had him play to recordings and this kid had shocking technique when he came to me. Anyway, bottom line was I had to use kid gloves.

You do need to know what you are doing. But you do not have to be Ed Thigpen to be a great teacher.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com