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  #1  
Old 12-16-2015, 01:03 AM
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Default Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

Thoughts?
Experiences?
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Old 12-16-2015, 01:06 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

Practice does not make perfect.. .Practice makes permanent.. If you practice things wrong then you will do them wrong :) Proper practice makes perfect...
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Old 12-16-2015, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

Proper practice makes improvement. There is no perfect. But indeed improper practice reinforces bad habits. Some practice way after being tired and and get sloppy and that practice is worthless.
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Old 12-16-2015, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

Practice without intention is called 'noodling'.
Noodling is idle, and fine, but is not practice.
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Old 12-16-2015, 01:42 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

Anytime you touch the drums you are gaining experience. Alone drum time can be so many different things. It can be fun. It can be work. Or a combination of both. It's all good. Maintaining what you have is good. Improving oneself is better. Goals are great. And hey, having fun is good too. Nothing wrong with that. Enjoyment is a wonderful feeling. Lump of clay, drums are. Use them however you need to.
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Old 12-16-2015, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

Damn Larry!.... what a series of sentences. few if any of them had more than 4 words. Very cool...reading much Hemingway?
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Old 12-16-2015, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Damn Larry!.... what a series of sentences. few if any of them had more than 4 words. Very cool...reading much Hemingway?
Hemingway's answer to "Why did the chicken cross the road?"

To die. In the rain.

To answer the question...kind of.

Practice without intention is kind of impossible. If you sit at the kit without any idea of what you wish to achieve, what exactly are you doing?

Either work on exercises, or mastering some groove, fill or new song. Anything else isn't even noodling.

When you don't know where you want to go, any road will take you there.
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Old 12-16-2015, 05:59 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

I tried the 45 min routine and failed twice.I found myself drifting off into no intention.I like to mix things up to keep it interesting at shorter intervals,and do the same thing everyday until I get it.
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Old 12-16-2015, 09:21 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

I find a big difference between practice and just sitting at the kit playing. Both are great but for practice to be truly worthwhile I need to have a plan of what I want to work on and stick to it.
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Old 12-16-2015, 10:23 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

I think practicing without any real goal in mind should be at least a small part of your regimen. It's improvisation, it shows you your tendencies and its troubleshooting, you stumble on cool ideas, you find things you need to work on. I play a little solo before I get started with any practice systems and on weekends I like to just screw around and jam to music.
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Old 12-16-2015, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Damn Larry!.... what a series of sentences. few if any of them had more than 4 words. Very cool...reading much Hemingway?
I take it Ernest used short sentences?

I'm ashamed to admit I never cracked a Hemingway book. I'm more of a non fiction guy.
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Old 12-16-2015, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

I've found I've been getting better a lot faster, when my practice routines are scheduled, steady, and goal oriented. Kind of like going to the gym, 5 days a week/3hours, with a routine.

For example, as of late, I've been a lot into rudiments using Charlie Wilcoxin's books. Everytime I go and play, I play for about 3 hours, 15 minutes of warmups. Singles, doubles, parraddiddles, flams, flam taps etc.

Once I'm done with that, I start tackling the Wilcoxin pieces, Rolling in Rythm, rythmania, and so on... Those things have done wonders for my on kit rudiments. I work on those for about 2 hours.

The last hour I spend on the kit, working on either covers, or songs that specifically work on a kind of groove. The last 20 minutes or so, I spend improvising and having fun.

I've been following this pattern for the past 6 months or so, and my level of play has exploded.
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Old 12-16-2015, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Anytime you touch the drums you are gaining experience. Alone drum time can be so many different things. It can be fun. It can be work. Or a combination of both. It's all good. Maintaining what you have is good. Improving oneself is better. Goals are great. And hey, having fun is good too. Nothing wrong with that. Enjoyment is a wonderful feeling. Lump of clay, drums are. Use them however you need to.
Sums it up pretty well for me. If I'm totally honest, I don't think I've "practiced" more than 10 hours total in the 35 years I've been playing drums, at least not in terms of working through books of rudiments and exercises, and mastering them at various tempos. Not my thing, really.

Your first sentence has about everything in it for me - anytime I sit at my kit, I'm gaining experience with something. The goal for me has always been to have fun, which usually means playing to a song (or just a snippet of a song) that's going through my head and stretching out over it, and perhaps twisting it into something it never was originally. Or it could just be a drum idea that I want to fool around with and pound into some usable shape. That kind of thing is so much fun for me that I have a hard time counting it as work or practice, though it probably still counts.

I work pretty hard at too many things as it is (relationships, kids, job, chores, etc) so when I play my drums, I'm really looking to have a good time and don't want to stress over anything that resembles work. I just don't.

Playing for fun probably isn't the fastest way to acquire new skills, but that doesn't mean it won't get you anywhere - for sure it will; the more fun you're having, the more your mind is engaged, and the more you're thinking about what you're doing in more abstract ways ... there's practically no way you're NOT going to progress and see big improvements. Just that it'll be born from a different headspace.

Perfect is overrated, IMO.
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Old 12-16-2015, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Sums it up pretty well for me. If I'm totally honest, I don't think I've "practiced" more than 10 hours total in the 35 years I've been playing drums, at least not in terms of working through books of rudiments and exercises, and mastering them at various tempos. Not my thing, really.

Your first sentence has about everything in it for me - anytime I sit at my kit, I'm gaining experience with something. The goal for me has always been to have fun, which usually means playing to a song (or just a snippet of a song) that's going through my head and stretching out over it, and perhaps twisting it into something it never was originally.

I work pretty hard at too many things as it is (relationships, kids, job, chores, etc) so when I play my drums, I'm really looking to have a good time and don't want to stress over anything that resembles work. I just don't.

Playing for fun probably isn't the fastest way to acquire new skills, but that doesn't mean it won't get you anywhere - for sure it will; the more fun you're having, the more your mind is engaged, and the more you're thinking about what you're doing in more abstract ways ... there's practically no way you're NOT going to progress and see big improvements. Just that it'll be born from a different headspace.

Perfect is overrated, IMO.
++, this............................
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  #15  
Old 12-17-2015, 03:38 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Sums it up pretty well for me. If I'm totally honest, I don't think I've "practiced" more than 10 hours total in the 35 years I've been playing drums, at least not in terms of working through books of rudiments and exercises, and mastering them at various tempos. Not my thing, really.

Your first sentence has about everything in it for me - anytime I sit at my kit, I'm gaining experience with something. The goal for me has always been to have fun, which usually means playing to a song (or just a snippet of a song) that's going through my head and stretching out over it, and perhaps twisting it into something it never was originally. Or it could just be a drum idea that I want to fool around with and pound into some usable shape. That kind of thing is so much fun for me that I have a hard time counting it as work or practice, though it probably still counts.

I work pretty hard at too many things as it is (relationships, kids, job, chores, etc) so when I play my drums, I'm really looking to have a good time and don't want to stress over anything that resembles work. I just don't.

Playing for fun probably isn't the fastest way to acquire new skills, but that doesn't mean it won't get you anywhere - for sure it will; the more fun you're having, the more your mind is engaged, and the more you're thinking about what you're doing in more abstract ways ... there's practically no way you're NOT going to progress and see big improvements. Just that it'll be born from a different headspace.

Perfect is overrated, IMO.
This is the best description of this thread.

And who could describe perfect, perfect is subjective for different individuals. it should a prefect balance of technical knowledge, fun and goals, all this at the rate that a drummer can actually progress, some get to certain levels faster and some take a little more time, but love, dedication, perseverance and willing to progress while still having fun and enjoying ourself, it's not a race, it's an art, music is an art form, let not forget why we wanted to be a drummer in the first place.
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  #16  
Old 12-17-2015, 03:53 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

I go in cycles where I practice the most (for me) to not feeling like practicing at all. I'm coming out of a downswing to an upswing presently. One thing never changes, I'm constantly thinking drums.

Drums are the perfect mistress, they stay completely quiet until you decide to play with them lol. What more could a man possibly want?

*runs for cover*
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Old 12-17-2015, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I go in cycles where I practice the most (for me) to not feeling like practicing at all. I'm coming out of a downswing to an upswing presently. One thing never changes, I'm constantly thinking drums.
I find this too. The last year or so I've been working on a lot of new stuff, and having focused/planned practice time has definitely been productive.

I sometimes feel like I have to work on a particular item until I've got it about 20% better than I need it to be in normal playing! Then I can move onto something else.

Of course, the time comes to just sit down and play. Yin and yang, or something.

Last edited by Bonzo_CR; 12-17-2015 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 12-18-2015, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

"Drums are the perfect mistress, they stay completely quiet until you decide to play with them"

I still say Larry should write for Hallmark cards.
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Old 12-18-2015, 12:36 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

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Originally Posted by Icetech View Post
Practice does not make perfect.. .Practice makes permanent.. If you practice things wrong then you will do them wrong :) Proper practice makes perfect...
I tell my students this all of the time. If you practice mistakes, you will get better at playing those mistakes. Therefore, it will take more time to retrain yourself to play it correctly.

Most of the time it means taking a few extra seconds to look at the exercise - and starting at a bit slower of a tempo.

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Old 12-18-2015, 12:55 AM
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Old 12-18-2015, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: Practice makes perfect but Practice without intention is a mess.

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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Sums it up pretty well for me. If I'm totally honest, I don't think I've "practiced" more than 10 hours total in the 35 years I've been playing drums, at least not in terms of working through books of rudiments and exercises, and mastering them at various tempos. Not my thing, really.
Jojo Mayer said something similar in an interview. I paraphrasing here but it was, "i haven't practiced in years, i just play"
At that point, it just depends on what your definition of practice/playing is.
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