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  #1  
Old 12-08-2015, 06:56 PM
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Default Live tempo perception.

I was watching some gig footage today, & noticed that everything seemed a bit rushed on the recording compared to how it felt on the day. Not huge, but enough :( Now I know this is a common phenomenon, but after all these years, you'd think I'd got past that. I'm satisfied that generally, my tempo control is pretty good (without the benefit of support devices), but I still get caught out from time to time.

Now this isn't just one or two rushed numbers - it's all of them, so it's a gig trend, not just a bad track opening decision.

Evidence - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mak-PcbKxwQ

It's even had me questioning the recording device, but I've pitch checked it, & it's (mostly) my fault. This doesn't happen very often, yet it does, even though I'm aware of it & it's on my radar. Anyone else suffer from this occasionally, especially those who should have grown past this by now?
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2015, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

I find that erring on the side of relaxed/lazy usually means the resulting tempo is about right. I 'play' the song in my head before counting it off, and if it feels just a little slow to me, I know I'm on the right track.

Bermuda
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

It's hard to keep it mellow when you got adrenaline and a crowd.

That's why I just go for punk bands where faster is always better!
I'll see if I can find it, but I saw a cell phone vid of my grunge band playing a bar, and during a whole band break in one song the guitar player leads it back in. He sped up like 20 bpm over a few bars and we just had to get on the new train track! Best part, nobody but I and the bass player said they noticed! In the vid, it's cringe-worthy! Those cell phones are a burden to us live musicians trying to fake it till we make it!
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
I find that erring on the side of relaxed/lazy usually means the resulting tempo is about right. I 'play' the song in my head before counting it off, and if it feels just a little slow to me, I know I'm on the right track.

Bermuda
Y'know Jon, I do exactly that, especially at the start of a set, but every now & then, it still catches me out, & strangely, for the whole set / gig. It's maybe 1 gig in 10 or more, but still, I'm not happy. I guess I'm distracted somehow. Funny thing is, it seems fine at the time, & also after the gig. It's only when I listen back to the recording that I pick this up. We're talking maybe plus 5bpm, 10bpm exceptionally.
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Yes, this is a familiar experience for me and I also do what Bermuda describes. I'll sometimes use a tempometer app on my phone just to check in if I suspect things are moving too fast.

The challenge, as you stated Andy, is when "it seems fine at the time." I reckon perception is vulnerable to being affected by fatigue, adrenaline, anxiety, etc. So, is it possible to train one's perception to be more consistent?
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Old 12-08-2015, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

I'm usually pretty good about not playing too quickly, but I have had those speedy nights, too.

I have a of us playing Sweet Child of Mine, and the guitar intro is perfect, but when the rest of the band comes in, I played it so fast! I didn't even notice at the time, but later I watched the vid and thought WTF??? lol
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Old 12-08-2015, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

I expect to play things a touch faster live, and I like it that way.
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Old 12-08-2015, 10:05 PM
Retrovertigo Retrovertigo is offline
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

find the BPM of the song you're gonna start the next set with. get a metronome app and listen to it just before the first song of the night. take the ear buds off and count off the tune and see if that helps set the pace a bit better for the night.
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Old 12-08-2015, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

There was a live album by one of my favorite bands of all time whose title sums up the situation perfectly:

Greatest Hits Played Faster
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Old 12-08-2015, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I was watching some gig footage today, & noticed that everything seemed a bit rushed on the recording compared to how it felt on the day. Not huge, but enough :( Now I know this is a common phenomenon, but after all these years, you'd think I'd got past that. I'm satisfied that generally, my tempo control is pretty good (without the benefit of support devices), but I still get caught out from time to time.

Now this isn't just one or two rushed numbers - it's all of them, so it's a gig trend, not just a bad track opening decision.

Evidence - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mak-PcbKxwQ

It's even had me questioning the recording device, but I've pitch checked it, & it's (mostly) my fault. This doesn't happen very often, yet it does, even though I'm aware of it & it's on my radar. Anyone else suffer from this occasionally, especially those who should have grown past this by now?


This is exactly why you need a 'support devise'. Don't have to let it rule your life, just know its there to inform you when you're overspending.


What the ell, you are 'Fired Up' btw.

My LIVEBPM has your 'Comfortably Numb' @ 127 bpm, PF studio Wall version- 127bpm, You singer is ahead of the beat more than Waters, bass player too, its a collective thing this time issue is, not just the drummers burden. The guitar solo jumps up to 135 bpm, your fault? Mmmmmmm, its hard we know. I've played all of these songs, know the tempos, and my LIVEBpM tells me where you're at.



'Addicted to Love' Record- 112 bpm Fired Up- 124 bpm... guitar solo jumps up to 128 bpm

'Wayward Son' Record- 128-132 bpm Fired Up- 127 bpm

'All the old Dudes' Record- 155 bpm Fired Up- 145 bpm

'Crazy Diamond'- Record 93 bpm Fired Up- 104bpm Quarter notes on the ride (or 8th notes with 1/4 note accents will (help) slow it down).

IMO its the singer that rushes any band more than a drummer (unless the drummer is a beginner). I sing and play drums, when doing so the band doesn't rush bc the singer and drummer are one, locked into the groove. Guitarists have a tendency to rush solos, OK as long as you come back, a 'support devise' allows you to do this easily and more importantly accurately.

I would assess 'Fired Up' has a small timing issue, one that could easily be remidied by the drummer using a 'support devise'. They will follow as it should be. Ok to follow them? To a point, but the trick is being able to come back accurately, else the train gets out of hand- support device for the win.

Last edited by Les Ismore; 12-08-2015 at 11:25 PM.
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  #11  
Old 12-09-2015, 04:11 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

FWIW, perceptions change too. Like listening to playback on the ride home from the gig I just did, I might think a song feels fast. But the next day listening again, I feel it was OK. Or vice versa. Perceptions change.

My goal is to have it sound and feel like exactly how it sounded and felt while playing it.

All I know is perception is a fickle thing. It changes.

FWIW, on your video, I didn't feel anything at all was too fast. Not even in the slightest.

Andy, I used to get on you about your time feel. I think your time feel is really spot on these days. For the last 3 years at least I think your time feel and tempos sound terrific. I can even see that you are more relaxed.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:37 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post

My goal is to have it sound and feel like exactly how it sounded and felt while playing it.
So Larry, are you making any headway with this project? And if so, how?
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:28 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Sounds fine to me.


Those toms sound amazing
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  #14  
Old 12-09-2015, 06:50 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KamaK View Post
There was a live album by one of my favorite bands of all time whose title sums up the situation perfectly:

Greatest Hits Played Faster
Lmao.

I think, in situations of live music, you also must consider the adrenaline of the crowd. I was recently at a concert where the band just felt too slow. Now, it was a modern backing-tracked computerized-guitar-patch-changes band, so I'm assuming it was exactly the album tempo. But it felt slow! Why not speed groove-based things up a touch live? In my experience it'll just be a little more exciting.
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:59 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

I only noticed a bit of a wavering in the first song, I think you hesitated with the back beat when the vocals came in, and then there was a bit of a push coming from somewhere and a rushed drum fill, the rest of it seemed nice, cool rock drumming. I love your rim shots, you have cool technique.

I was watching a recording of my band last night and I think generally we played everything a bit faster too, some band members tended to rush in after a pause and the singer was guilty of pushing the tempo.

Actually reminds me of another debate that I'm having with myself lately, I realize that I don't listen to the bass players tempo much in my bands, I generally listen to the vocalist, or the person who needs the most "attention", and by that I mean the person who has the least control over their tempo... I notice that I tend to focus on that person because if I lose sync with them then it's going to be really obvious. In a way this is making the bass player listen to me and follow me, instead of the other way around, which is probably ideal given that I'm the one who spends time practicing with a metronome.
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:10 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
I find that erring on the side of relaxed/lazy usually means the resulting tempo is about right. I 'play' the song in my head before counting it off, and if it feels just a little slow to me, I know I'm on the right track.

Bermuda
This is so true. The first time I was in a rehearsal with Bermuda there, I'd look at him for a tempo, and he'd give it to me and it felt really slow. But he's right. I've adapted this into my own interpretations of songs now too. If it feels slow, it's just right. The adrenaline involved with being in front of an audience and the excitement of actually having a gig to play, is just that, adrenaline. It must be controlled.

But I know Andy already knows this.
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  #17  
Old 12-09-2015, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

I finally had a chance to watch/listen to the video, and I have to say the only song that felt uncomfortable to me was Purple Rain. The others seemed to feel just fine in the context of a live gig, IMO.

The concept remains the same, though. It IS easy to play too fast when the energy is flowing!
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Thanks for all the excellent replies chaps :) I'm travelling right now, so less thread attentive than usual, but I'm back home tonight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Those cell phones are a burden to us live musicians trying to fake it till we make it!
And isn't that the truth ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by spleen View Post
is it possible to train one's perception to be more consistent?
Oooo - that's a big one - I suppose yes, it's called experience :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post

My LIVEBPM has your 'Comfortably Numb' @ 127 bpm, PF studio Wall version- 127bpm, You singer is ahead of the beat more than Waters, bass player too, its a collective thing this time issue is, not just the drummers burden. The guitar solo jumps up to 135 bpm, your fault? This is the intended tempo, including the speed up feel for our deliberately overblown version of the solo, so happy with that :)

'Addicted to Love' Record- 112 bpm Fired Up- 124 bpm... guitar solo jumps up to 128 bpm This is intentional as we blend it with Wayward son.

'Wayward Son' Record- 128-132 bpm Fired Up- 127 bpm Spot on :)

'All the old Dudes' Record- 155 bpm Fired Up- 145 bpm Still 5bpm faster than we'd like our version to be :(

'Crazy Diamond'- Record 93 bpm Fired Up- 104bpm Quarter notes on the ride (or 8th notes with 1/4 note accents will (help) slow it down). Completely unacceptable, & way faster than we'd usually shoot for (min 10 bpm less) :(
Thanks for your detailed reply Les - replies in bold in your quote. Overall, better than I thought, except for Crazy Diamond. That was the one I really felt on the night too (starts with iconic guitar intro)

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post

Andy, I used to get on you about your time feel. I think your time feel is really spot on these days.
I've worked out what happened there Larry. When I gave up "the day job", most of my work was fixing current pop tracks (mid 80's), & the trend at the time was urgent. I think my feel clock stopped on that day, & that's where it picked up a few years ago after my long hiatus. Took a while to reset it :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bull View Post
Those toms sound amazing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Tape View Post
I generally listen to the vocalist, or the person who needs the most "attention",
Me too - whoever is going to unintentionally push / pull the most at a particular point get's my focus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
adrenaline. It must be controlled.

But I know Andy already knows this.
I think the main issue with me Bo is distraction. This gig for example, I was running the stage & FOH sound for the mini festival, therefore my setup & breakdown was hardly hassle free, plus handing the desk over to someone else (who got the monitor feed numbers mixed up badly). Essentially. I had zero time to get into playing mode, & that's never a good thing.
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Old 12-09-2015, 10:22 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

I know many will disagree with that but in my opinion, when playing live the "correct" tempo does not necessarily need to be 100% stable. Depending on the mood of the band and audience, rushing or dragging slightly, even in an uncontrolled way, is natural and feels even somehow more interactive and enjoyable.
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Old 12-09-2015, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

To avoid driving myself crazy I've always decided that the actual tempo doesn't really matter as no one can play perfectly in a live session. As long as no one notices the tempo shifting and everyone is comfortable playing their instrument at that speed you're good.
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Old 12-09-2015, 11:20 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

I dont care, really. Some gigs are so good and the audience is really up, if the song is a few BPM faster so what? Excitement and adrenaline are wonderful things. As long as its not rushed a bit faster is ok with me. Some orchestral conductors will deliberately do this to increase excitement, its an old trick.

As I say, its rock and roll not mathematics. If its pure excitement making it a little faster, without it sounding rushed then its fine.
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Old 12-09-2015, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

I can relate to all the comments so far.

In one of my bands the bass player likes everything a bit fast.
In the other one the bass player keeps really steady time, but the guitarist rushes. So any song that starts with a guitar intro is always fast. (eg La Bamba)

I agree that videos really highlight this. I also agree that if the crowd and the band is energised, then the appropriate tempo would be a bit faster than normal.

I tend to rush fast songs that have 1/4 hihats - like Footloose, Higher and Higher and Walking on Sunshine. I find it hard to 'feel' the correct tempo when I'm playing 1/4's instead of 1/8's on hihat. I just remember not to relax when I play those songs. As soon as I relax I get faster. Not sure why.
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Old 12-09-2015, 02:47 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck Tape View Post
I only noticed a bit of a wavering in the first song, I think you hesitated with the back beat when the vocals came in, and then there was a bit of a push coming from somewhere and a rushed drum fill, the rest of it seemed nice, cool rock drumming. I love your rim shots, you have cool technique.

I was watching a recording of my band last night and I think generally we played everything a bit faster too, some band members tended to rush in after a pause and the singer was guilty of pushing the tempo.

Actually reminds me of another debate that I'm having with myself lately, I realize that I don't listen to the bass players tempo much in my bands, I generally listen to the vocalist, or the person who needs the most "attention", and by that I mean the person who has the least control over their tempo... I notice that I tend to focus on that person because if I lose sync with them then it's going to be really obvious. In a way this is making the bass player listen to me and follow me, instead of the other way around, which is probably ideal given that I'm the one who spends time practicing with a metronome.
I have the same issue listening to the lead (singer/guitar). Most of them have a tendency to speed and be waaaayyyyy ahead of time and rush like crazy.

I am working on listening to the rhythm section and putting the lead way in the back. I also do the same thing while listening to the radio. It is helping me a bunch doing that.

I also notice then when I do that , I feel the rush of the leads while the rhythm section is staying put (lots of it on led zeppelin) . If I was the drummer, I would have followed and the whole band would have sped up.
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  #24  
Old 12-09-2015, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spleen View Post
So Larry, are you making any headway with this project? And if so, how?
Oh I've made miles of headway....starting from the very first day I started recording my live shows. I've literally recorded about 600 shows in the last 10 years. When you listen back that much, after about the first hundred shows, you get a real handle on how it felt vs how it sounded.

I've adjusted my live playing so I don't cringe on playback. Which involved blending my volume, reigning in too much busy-ness, RELAXING, and altering every other little detail that sticks out too much where it shouldn't. For me generally speaking it translates into controlling the drums, taming them, especially the volume. Less in your face and more subtle and nuanced....finessed..works better in my situation. I try to play with class as opposed to (extreme example) a Keith Moon type. Everyone's situation is different.

I'd say I'm operating at over 90%. Meaning about 90% of what I hear on the playback is one in the same with my memory of how it felt. I haven't cringed in years.

Everyone should record themselves just so they know how they are being perceived by every other person in the room. That's something that IMO no drummer can do without a recording.
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Old 12-09-2015, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

I think a lot of bands struggle with this. I believe a lot of it comes down to the sound on stage. If you are playing a big venue and getting little or no bass in your ears then the tendency is to push the tempo faster.

The difficulty, as we all know by now, is in hearing the band as the audience is hearing it. This is far more difficult with poor audio mixes and all that concentration on playing parts musicians have to do.

A few months ago I decided to create a visual tempo app for mobile to use at gigs (www.songtempo.com - plug). It doubles up as a setlist as sometimes songs don't need a strict tempo or the slight variation matters little. Other songs only sound well within a very small bpm range.

It was pretty enlightening to see how tempo perception can vary from player to player, and from gig to gig. I've heard one person say, 'that felt too slow' and another say 'that felt too fast' all because how they were perceiving it.

It's no coincidence that many of the top live arena bands use in-ear click mixes.

Here's Larry from U2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5WOORbKv1k

Drums start around 2min 30.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

I think a lot of times, the first few songs run a bit faster until you get settled in. Seems where the most mistakes tend to happen also.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

I've never really experienced tempo issues playing live. The only time that happens is when a guitar player starts a song. I'm pretty good at pushing the tempo faster or slower during a song. My whole time drumming, I've always focused on tempo because so many people have made an issue of it. So, now tempo is rarely an issue anymore.
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I think the main issue with me Bo is distraction. This gig for example, I was running the stage & FOH sound for the mini festival, therefore my setup & breakdown was hardly hassle free, plus handing the desk over to someone else (who got the monitor feed numbers mixed up badly). Essentially. I had zero time to get into playing mode, & that's never a good thing.
I think that's your main issue, right there, Andy. I know you like to stay busy and deeply care about the whole band package, but by taking on so much responsibility and keeping track of and managing so much stuff, you really can't be surprised that when it's show time, you've still got all these residual elements competing for that same precious RAM.

Imagine a scenario where you could duck out for an hour or two before show time to clear your mind and/or take a nap. Like a reboot for the old brain. I know, I know, totally not practical, and maybe not even desirable since it seems pretty clear that you really enjoy all those other roles you're playing, so take that for whatever it's worth.

After some heavy scrutinizing of your evidence and after a period of deliberation, this juror has to vote 'not guilty'. I get what you're saying in terms of how your versions may have deviated from the original version's bpm, because I'm sure they probably did. But what I'm saying is, Who the hell cares as long as it still sounds good? Honestly, if that's you at your worst on an off night, then you might consider taking a hit out on your perfectionist side. I agree that you have a pretty good handle on keeping steady time and smooth feel, so even if it is faster or slower on this song or that song, or pushes or pulls here and there, it still sounds like you're owning it and it's still comfortable.

The only criticism I might offer up is your snare tuning. Not that it sounds bad (quite the opposite), but for a lot of the older rock numbers, especially the slower Floyd/Prince-type ballads, that high sharp crack is a little out of place, IMO. Imagine Stewart Copeland's snare on just about any Journey track, especially the Steve Smith power ballads. There's just something a bit too staccato and harsh about it where something a little more lush and deep might lull you into a more relaxed state for some of those songs. I don't mean Don Henley soggy, just something where the attack isn't quite the jarring contrast to the attack of the toms.

Any chance you could take a second snare tuned down a notch that you could quickly switch out that wouldn't wreck the FOH sound?
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Old 12-09-2015, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post

I think the main issue with me Bo is distraction. This gig for example, I was running the stage & FOH sound for the mini festival, therefore my setup & breakdown was hardly hassle free, plus handing the desk over to someone else (who got the monitor feed numbers mixed up badly). Essentially. I had zero time to get into playing mode, & that's never a good thing.
You need your own qualified sound guy, so you don't have to worry about anything. Let me know when your next gig is and I'll fly over and take care of that for you ;)
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Old 12-09-2015, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Oh I've made miles of headway....starting from the very first day I started recording my live shows. I've literally recorded about 600 shows in the last 10 years. When you listen back that much, after about the first hundred shows, you get a real handle on how it felt vs how it sounded.

I've adjusted my live playing so I don't cringe on playback. Which involved blending my volume, reigning in too much busy-ness, RELAXING, and altering every other little detail that sticks out too much where it shouldn't. For me generally speaking it translates into controlling the drums, taming them, especially the volume. Less in your face and more subtle and nuanced....finessed..works better in my situation. I try to play with class as opposed to (extreme example) a Keith Moon type. Everyone's situation is different.

I'd say I'm operating at over 90%. Meaning about 90% of what I hear on the playback is one in the same with my memory of how it felt. I haven't cringed in years.

Everyone should record themselves just so they know how they are being perceived by every other person in the room. That's something that IMO no drummer can do without a recording.
Congrats on your progress Larry. Good stuff and same here, though I'm miles behind you in terms of volume. Just haven't been consistent and as a result, I've passed up a lot of opportunities to improve, right?

I don't know if this fits for you but it seems like you approach your recording and post-analysis with a strong work ethic, that it's something you do consistently as "part of the job." Wow, 10 years of recordings is a lot of research done over the long haul but it sounds like it has paid off and gotten you to a good place.

BTW, great thread everyone, really digging the responses. IMO, this kind of stuff doesn't get talked about nearly enough.
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Old 12-09-2015, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

I've seen Steve Gadd with James Taylor last Winter, and I was at the the first row.
He had an audible metronome he used to set the tempo between the songs.
It wasn't very loud, and I guess most people in the audience couldn't hear and/or notice it, but I did.
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Old 12-10-2015, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alain Rieder View Post
I've seen Steve Gadd with James Taylor last Winter, and I was at the the first row.
He had an audible metronome he used to set the tempo between the songs.
It wasn't very loud, and I guess most people in the audience couldn't hear and/or notice it, but I did.
Timing like sound is subjective, practically impossible to play a lot, be accurate and not use some sort of time keeping/watching devise.
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Old 12-10-2015, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

those crashes sound amazing. drums look to be cheap pearl export or early asian junk, probably 8 ply poplar or crappy luan judging by the tone.

drummer could use a lot of help, or maybe the band could get a new drummer? this guy is a train wreck!
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Old 12-10-2015, 08:57 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cemguvener View Post
Depending on the mood of the band and audience, rushing or dragging slightly, even in an uncontrolled way, is natural and feels even somehow more interactive and enjoyable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by douglaschoi_ View Post
As long as no one notices the tempo shifting and everyone is comfortable playing their instrument at that speed you're good.
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Originally Posted by mikel View Post
As I say, its rock and roll not mathematics. If its pure excitement making it a little faster, without it sounding rushed then its fine.
I agree with all these posts, but it's numbers that step substantially outside of the "planned" tempo that I'm referring to.

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Originally Posted by Stitch Kaboodle View Post
It was pretty enlightening to see how tempo perception can vary from player to player, and from gig to gig. I've heard one person say, 'that felt too slow' and another say 'that felt too fast' all because how they were perceiving it.
Absolutely - that happens frequently.

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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Imagine a scenario where you could duck out for an hour or two before show time to clear your mind and/or take a nap. Like a reboot for the old brain.

Any chance you could take a second snare tuned down a notch that you could quickly switch out that wouldn't wreck the FOH sound?
Agree on both points Mike. I'm frequently distracted - rushing around like a madman moments before starting the gig. It's not good, & I have made changes recognising that. At most gigs, I now turn up earlier & take time out to have a meal or some other relaxation before playing.

2nd snare = check. It's something I'm feeling, & something I need to try out.

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Originally Posted by Matt Bo Eder View Post
You need your own qualified sound guy, so you don't have to worry about anything. Let me know when your next gig is and I'll fly over and take care of that for you ;)
Deeply practical for a bar gig ;)

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Originally Posted by spleen View Post
BTW, great thread everyone, really digging the responses. IMO, this kind of stuff doesn't get talked about nearly enough.
agreed, & thanks.

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Originally Posted by no talent View Post
those crashes sound amazing. drums look to be cheap pearl export or early asian junk, probably 8 ply poplar or crappy luan judging by the tone.

drummer could use a lot of help, or maybe the band could get a new drummer? this guy is a train wreck!
I agree with everything you're about to say ;)
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Old 12-10-2015, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

As others have mentioned, there's the adrenaline, the situation, the distractions... Which means that I don't trust myself, not even now after almost 40 years of playing, and always bring a metronome or the Fakebook app.

I only use it for count-off (and the occasional sanity check), but I guess it has saved me from a train wreck or two...

(Shameless self-plug: when I use my Fakebook app as a programmable metronome it also serves as a setlist -- and of course to show me the music or scribbled shorthand notes.)
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:16 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

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Originally Posted by Skrivarna View Post
As others have mentioned, there's the adrenaline, the situation, the distractions... Which means that I don't trust myself, not even now after almost 40 years of playing, and always bring a metronome or the Fakebook app.

I only use it for count-off (and the occasional sanity check), but I guess it has saved me from a train wreck or two...

(Shameless self-plug: when I use my Fakebook app as a programmable metronome it also serves as a setlist -- and of course to show me the music or scribbled shorthand notes.)
I'm certainly considering some form of simple count off tempo tool for stage reference of tempo critical songs. We rehearsed our (fairly heavy / sour / grungy) version of this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i5zXiQHSSg for the first time last night, & it's a prime candidate for getting it wrong from the get go.
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

I sing the chorus of the next song, to myself, while the singer is introducing it, seems to work pretty well in nailing the tempo. Only works when I am counting in but hey, I cant be responsible for everyone in the band.

I have used the flashing light on a Tama tempo thingy, just for the count off. As you can program in a whole set its ideal, as long as no one changes the running order on the night.
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Old 12-11-2015, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I'm certainly considering some form of simple count off tempo tool for stage reference of tempo critical songs. We rehearsed our (fairly heavy / sour / grungy) version of this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i5zXiQHSSg for the first time last night, & it's a prime candidate for getting it wrong from the get go.
I would hope he doesn't let his son go down on him. Geez, what a weird name for a song.
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Old 12-11-2015, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

I sometimes use a click if there is a track involved. I really focus on the cadence of the singer singing said song. I try not to have them sound like auctioneers, or on Xanax. If it feels and sounds right I go with it. I also use LiveBPM as well, on average I tend to rush about 5BPM.
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: Live tempo perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikel View Post
I sing the chorus of the next song, to myself, while the singer is introducing it, seems to work pretty well in nailing the tempo.
That's pretty much what I do if I'm not feeling it intuitively at that moment in time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
I would hope he doesn't let his son go down on him. Geez, what a weird name for a song.
You're a very naughty boy! The - my ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesdog View Post
I really focus on the cadence of the singer singing said song. I try not to have them sound like auctioneers, or on Xanax.
I'd need more than tempo control to guarantee that ;) ;) ;)
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