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  #1  
Old 05-27-2014, 08:12 AM
Jazz Man
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Default Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

I finally figured out WHY my meter has been speeding up lately (much to the disgust of my bandmates).
It happens every time I have to "rush" to get to a certain part of the kit and back again to where I started.
Because I have to physically speed up my limbs to move around the kit, I have transitioned into speeding up.

SO, I assume I have to arrange the kit so everything is much closer together so there's no rushing around the kit.

Has anyone else ever had this epiphany?
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  #2  
Old 05-27-2014, 08:35 AM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Yeah, proximity of your surfaces is real important. That's why all my drums are kinda low and flat, all my cymbals are close in but not "up my nose"...

As for keeping time- think in longer phrases. You don't walk and look at your feet, right? Because when you do the first obstacle (usually a pole) hits you right in the face. As with walking, "look farther down the block" (song) so that when you can "see" the next section coming up you may easily traverse it rather than having to negotiate the part right on the spot. It makes you think less when you do it that way. And less thinking = more creating.
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  #3  
Old 05-27-2014, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

The location of your kit parts is not the cause of your speeding up. Poor internal meter or poor meter of external other players is "causing" your issue.

Rushing into and out of fills is a very common issue for less-experienced drummers. Practice those fills to a click and make sure you know where the 1 is going to be as you play.
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Old 05-27-2014, 08:46 AM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

As you approach a more complicated section you tense up and speed up as a result. You focus on the mechanics of what you need to hit, and the musicality of hitting stuff right flies out the window.




Well, that's how I do it anyway.
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Old 05-27-2014, 09:00 AM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
The location of your kit parts is not the cause of your speeding up. Poor internal meter or poor meter of external other players is "causing" your issue.
It may not be a cause but it would definitely compound any existing issues.
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  #6  
Old 05-27-2014, 03:08 PM
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WaitForItDrummer WaitForItDrummer is offline
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazz Man View Post
I finally figured out WHY my meter has been speeding up lately (much to the disgust of my bandmates).
It happens every time I have to "rush" to get to a certain part of the kit and back again to where I started.
Because I have to physically speed up my limbs to move around the kit, I have transitioned into speeding up.

SO, I assume I have to arrange the kit so everything is much closer together so there's no rushing around the kit.

Has anyone else ever had this epiphany?
Good observation. A related epiphany I recently had is that when transitioning from 16ths notes to say two half notes, I tend to think that the interval btw the half notes is shorter than it actually is ... Even though if I just play two half notes or transition from quarter notes, this issue does not come up.

I think that the frequency of sound/movement associated with the 16ths is distorting my (overall not too bad but inexperienced) sense of time - causing me to rush the half notes... Good counting should help fix this...


(This reminds of how recent visual stimuli can alter how people perceive new visual stimuli (from my psych degree) but I digress... And not going launch into how cool it would be to better understand auditory perception...)
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  #7  
Old 05-27-2014, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillRayDrums View Post
Yeah, proximity of your surfaces is real important. That's why all my drums are kinda low and flat, all my cymbals are close in but not "up my nose"...

As for keeping time- think in longer phrases. You don't walk and look at your feet, right? Because when you do the first obstacle (usually a pole) hits you right in the face. As with walking, "look farther down the block" (song) so that when you can "see" the next section coming up you may easily traverse it rather than having to negotiate the part right on the spot. It makes you think less when you do it that way. And less thinking = more creating.
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Old 05-27-2014, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

The arrangement of the kit may play some part but I don't think it will fix everything.

Right now your are thinking of the fill as a separate piece when you should be thinking of it as simply an extension of the main piece. You need to keep the 1 2 3 4 going as you are rolling in and out of your fills.

Working with a metronome will certainly help. Altering your fills may also help. Try to determine where you tend to go off track and maybe leave out a note or start with a different hand or drum.
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  #9  
Old 05-27-2014, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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Originally Posted by WaitForItDrummer View Post
.. And not going launch into how cool it would be to better understand auditory perception...)
I think about perception a lot. Just last week, practicing with a metronome....when I would stop, the metronome would sound to me like it was going faster than when I was playing to it. I stopped multiple times to try and test my perceptions, and every time the met sounded like it accelerated whenever I stopped playing. Of course it didn't, it was all in my head. The next day was the same story. So now I am trying to reconcile my perceptions while playing compared to stopping. Hopefully one day I will perceive them as the exact same. Perceptions majorly affect what/how drummers play, and perceptions can definitely trick you.

Hearing things as they actually are takes getting over my own perceptions. My own perceptions fool me sometimes, so it can be a little unsettling, like I can't trust my own ears. Awareness is the first step.
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  #10  
Old 05-27-2014, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I think about perception a lot. Just last week, practicing with a metronome....when I would stop, the metronome would sound to me like it was going faster than when I was playing to it. I stopped multiple times to try and test my perceptions, and every time the met sounded like it accelerated whenever I stopped playing. Of course it didn't, it was all in my head. The next day was the same story. So now I am trying to reconcile my perceptions while playing compared to stopping. Hopefully one day I will perceive them as the exact same. Perceptions majorly affect what/how drummers play, and perceptions can definitely trick you.

Hearing things as they actually are takes getting over my own perceptions. My own perceptions fool me sometimes, so it can be a little unsettling, like I can't trust my own ears. Awareness is the first step.

One thing I used to do was set a drum machine to play four bars of click then four bars of silence and loop that around. You may have to start with two bars to gain the confidence to nail it. Then when you master four bars, move on up to 8 bars. Play a solo over the top of the click then groove through the silence. When that's comfortable then switch the groove to the clicks and solo over the silence.

That'll tune you right up
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  #11  
Old 05-27-2014, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I every time the met sounded like it accelerated whenever I stopped playing. Of course it didn't, it was all in my head.
After working with a click for 2.5 years, my bass player STILL occasionally claims that the click speeds up/slows down. I stopped laughing long ago and now just shake my head and smile :)
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  #12  
Old 05-28-2014, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazz Man View Post
I finally figured out WHY my meter has been speeding up lately (much to the disgust of my bandmates).
It happens every time I have to "rush" to get to a certain part of the kit and back again to where I started.
Because I have to physically speed up my limbs to move around the kit, I have transitioned into speeding up.

SO, I assume I have to arrange the kit so everything is much closer together so there's no rushing around the kit.

Has anyone else ever had this epiphany?
While kit ergonomics are important you must remember that it is NEVER the stick, drum or pedal. It is that which moves the stick or pedal.

Another way to look at it, do you think that (insert your favorite drummers name here) could play the same song on your exact kit and not speed up?

The cause is always within you.
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  #13  
Old 05-28-2014, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Hearing things as they actually are takes getting over my own perceptions. My own perceptions fool me sometimes, so it can be a little unsettling, like I can't trust my own ears. Awareness is the first step.
This was a big learning for me too. I always thought I had reasonable time, but playing with a click often felt like I had to concentrate hard so I could never play my best stuff with a click. Like I was 'against' the click in some sort of competition!

During practice a few weeks ago I stopped thinking of the click as a click, and started thinking of it as sort of just "the guide for where the time is", or something. (Sounds weird I know, and it's the same thing really, but anyway...) After this subtle change in 'perception', I listened more to the click as I played, and played with it like I would listen to a member of the band to stay in time with them.

For me this was something of a revelation. It sounds odd but I found I was listening more to the click, and sort of letting my playing happen. Like a different kind of awareness, sharing my attention between the click and my playing.

I still need to practice! But this has made it much more natural, so it's easier to stay in time with the click and play what I want to play.
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:14 PM
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  #14  
Old 05-28-2014, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Are you trying to put too much in your fills, and have you played them at a slower tempo until you have them down?
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  #15  
Old 05-28-2014, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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T. It sounds odd but I found I was listening more to the click, and sort of letting my playing happen. Like a different kind of awareness, sharing my attention between the click and my playing.

I still need to practice! But this has made it much more natural, so it's easier to stay in time with the click and play what I want to play.
It doesn't sound odd to me. It' IS similar to playing with another musician. He only knows one note but has perfect time.

If you were playing with another real musician, you would both waver and compensate and play together at basically the same tempo. With the click, you are the only one who has to make all the adjustments. The work all falls upon you.
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazz Man View Post
I finally figured out WHY my meter has been speeding up lately (much to the disgust of my bandmates).
It happens every time I have to "rush" to get to a certain part of the kit and back again to where I started.
Because I have to physically speed up my limbs to move around the kit, I have transitioned into speeding up.

SO, I assume I have to arrange the kit so everything is much closer together so there's no rushing around the kit.

Has anyone else ever had this epiphany?
Your body (i.e. mind) has to get used to how long it takes to get from one surface to another, just like it has to learn timing when you play ghost notes and accents. Practice with the metronome did it for me.

Also, highly recommend this book....

http://www.amazon.com/Drum-Set-Warm-...od+morgenstein
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  #17  
Old 05-30-2014, 12:47 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Thank you ALL for the wonderful feedback and advice!!!

(I realize that my meter is an issue regardless of the kit's set up. It's just one PHYSICAL thing I noticed that was definitely working against me.)

I have a metronome now!!!

I really appreciate all the great tips and suggestions.
I've got my work cut out for me (as usual).

Grunter's Dad......To answer your questions, regarding fills, I find myself trying to think UP fills on the spot and of course, it's a train wreck. I haven't worked through them slowly yet, but I SURE will from now on!!

The Drumster...........Thanks for the book recommendation. It looks good and at a steal of a price.

I also catch myself getting all excited just with the fact of PLAYING the drums and THAT "speeds" me up too.
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  #18  
Old 05-30-2014, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

it does matter where you put your stuff. take it to the extreme. put one of your drums on the other side of the room. your time is gonna suffer, i don't care who you are. ergonomics are very important. in my humble opinion, of course. practicing to a click, in every style and regime possible, so you know your tendencies. listen to recordings of yourself. "oh crap, i rushed that break!" try and remember what your state of mind was when the mistake was made. "ok, i have a tendency to tighten up, and rush that section." getting too emotionally tied up, on a kit that's set up for a space alien is a recipe for timing inaccuracy. in my worthless opinion.
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Old 05-30-2014, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Having to reach further to get to the next sound source can throw you off. You should eventually get used to it. Practice those parts over and over by yourself, preferably with a metronome, until they become more fluid. You'll learn to cope with things being further apart.
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:20 AM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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Originally Posted by New Tricks View Post
After working with a click for 2.5 years, my bass player STILL occasionally claims that the click speeds up/slows down. I stopped laughing long ago and now just shake my head and smile :)
Mine does that too!!
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  #21  
Old 06-01-2014, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

You guys are being weird and focusing on the wrong things. I have played more kits than I can count, setup in countless ways. Some were easier to play than others, but never once could I claim that I sped up part of a song because of how the kit was setup.

We rush or drag because our sense of meter is not as aware as it should have been. The best way to fix this is to setup the kit in a comfortable way, then stop focusing on it. Instead, get your metronome out and practice those parts in a very exacting way.

Think about it. If you rushed the section, you actually had more time to get around the kit than you used.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I think about perception a lot. Just last week, practicing with a metronome....when I would stop, the metronome would sound to me like it was going faster than when I was playing to it. I stopped multiple times to try and test my perceptions, and every time the met sounded like it accelerated whenever I stopped playing. Of course it didn't, it was all in my head. The next day was the same story. So now I am trying to reconcile my perceptions while playing compared to stopping. Hopefully one day I will perceive them as the exact same. Perceptions majorly affect what/how drummers play, and perceptions can definitely trick you.

Hearing things as they actually are takes getting over my own perceptions. My own perceptions fool me sometimes, so it can be a little unsettling, like I can't trust my own ears. Awareness is the first step.
Larry,

Thanks for this--it resonates a lot with my own experiences and ongoing work in developing my time. It's something I wish more people would talk and write about. Coming up, I had all kinds of people tell me that a good sense of tempo is something "you either got or you don't." I disagree, I think it's a skill that like any other, can be continually developed. I think part of the reason people don't talk/write about this sort of development is that it tends to be less concrete and more conceptual.

But I dig the direction you're going in finding ways to talk about this that are in addition to the more "concrete" things like "practice with a click, put spaces into your click track, etc." These are very useful but I think there could be a lot of value in discussing conceptual things like "perception"

So, if you don't mind, my questions for you: What do you do to "get over" your own perceptions? And when you say "awareness is the first step," what do you have in mind as the steps that will follow?

Thanks brotha and hope this makes sense,

Jason
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I think about perception a lot. Just last week, practicing with a metronome....when I would stop, the metronome would sound to me like it was going faster than when I was playing to it. I stopped multiple times to try and test my perceptions, and every time the met sounded like it accelerated whenever I stopped playing. Of course it didn't, it was all in my head. The next day was the same story. So now I am trying to reconcile my perceptions while playing compared to stopping. Hopefully one day I will perceive them as the exact same. Perceptions majorly affect what/how drummers play, and perceptions can definitely trick you.

Hearing things as they actually are takes getting over my own perceptions. My own perceptions fool me sometimes, so it can be a little unsettling, like I can't trust my own ears. Awareness is the first step.
Larry (& Wait For It Drummer),

Thanks for this--it resonates a lot with my own experiences and ongoing work in developing my time. It's something I wish more people would talk and write about. Coming up, I had all kinds of people tell me that a good sense of tempo is something "you either got or you don't." I disagree, I think it's a skill that like any other, can be continually developed. I think part of the reason people don't talk/write about this sort of development is that it tends to be less concrete and more conceptual.

But I dig the direction you're going in finding ways to talk about this that are in addition to the more "concrete" things like "practice with a click, put spaces into your click track, etc." These are very useful but I think there could be a lot of value in discussing conceptual things like "perception"

So, if you don't mind, my questions for you: What do you do to "get over" your own perceptions? And when you say "awareness is the first step," what do you have in mind as the steps that will follow?

Thanks brotha and hope I've made some sense,

Jason
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  #24  
Old 06-01-2014, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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You guys are being weird and focusing on the wrong things. I have played more kits than I can count, setup in countless ways. Some were easier to play than others, but never once could I claim that I sped up part of a song because of how the kit was setup.

.
First, Everyone is not as experienced as you.

Second, I don't see where anyone was focusing strictly on the set up. A LOT of things can affect your meter and the set up is is just one of them. You need to be comfortable in order to play properly. If you are worried that you may have trouble getting around the kit for certain fills, your meter may suffer.

If necessary, most experienced players would simply adjust what they play on a difficult or oddly set up kit. When you are learning however, consistency is important.
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Old 06-01-2014, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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First, Everyone is not as experienced as you.
I suppose that's true, but I'm far from any kind of drumming "great", and what I'm talking about has always applied through my entire time as a drummer, and indeed musician. Going from electric bass to a full size stand up fretless monster might make for a challenge, but you shouldn't let it affect your meter mentally. The solution isn't just to go back to the smaller bass, or a tighter setup because that's easier than addressing the mental issue of your psyching-out over something being different than you think it should be.

Quote:
You need to be comfortable in order to play properly.
Nonsense. I was just reading a thread about all kinds of mishaps and terrible drum kits setup in odd ways. The prevailing notion was that each player got through the gig, and a lot of the time, the audience has no idea.

Quote:
If you are worried that you may have trouble getting around the kit for certain fills, your meter may suffer.
And instead, if you're comfortable and know you've got a great meter, because you put in the time, you won't be thinking this regardless what setup you're sitting at. I don't often "learn" other people's fills, but when I do, I always work them out by the sticking, and then first learn them on a pad or a snare to a metronome. No getting around the kit at all. It's much more important to think about where each note falls within the pulse than it is to think about what kit part (and where it is) you're going to hit next in this awesome fill.

Quote:
If necessary, most experienced players would simply adjust what they play on a difficult or oddly set up kit. When you are learning however, consistency is important.
I'd argue the opposite, as I suppose I have. In a way, you're supporting my point. The "adjustments" you're talking about here is really just a different voicing of the same notes.

Play your fills OVER your sense of time. Never let your fills dictate the time.
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Old 06-01-2014, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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So, if you don't mind, my questions for you: What do you do to "get over" your own perceptions? And when you say "awareness is the first step," what do you have in mind as the steps that will follow?

Jason
What do I do to get over my own perceptions. Well I really can't escape them, but I can learn to question if what I think I am hearing is what is actually going on. What I mean is to try and hear what is honestly happening, despite my own fallibility in perceiving something. So it's like a mental focus to make sure my own misconstrusions don't get in the way. A cynical ear may be another way to put it.

Awareness...the metronome speeding up is a great example. I heard it and said, damn, it seems like it's accelerating. Of course, I realize that the problem is, as always, with ME. Awareness = realizing my own shortcomings, and being totally honest about them. Knowing where I am deficient is essential to correcting the deficit. Then it comes down to work ethic, talent and just being able to be a freestylin white chocolate.
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Old 06-01-2014, 10:51 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

I've said it earlier and I'll say it again:

Trying to place blame or credit on anything except yourself for your playing is a sure ticket to mediocrity. The "cause" is always you.

The OP commented that he didn't have a metronome at the beginning of the thread. I'd say the cause for his meter speeding up is that he has never worked with a click before and thus his meter is poor.
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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In a way, you're supporting my point.
Now THAT is some nonsense :)
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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I've said it earlier and I'll say it again:

Trying to place blame or credit on anything except yourself for your playing is a sure ticket to mediocrity. The "cause" is always you.

The OP commented that he didn't have a metronome at the beginning of the thread. I'd say the cause for his meter speeding up is that he has never worked with a click before and thus his meter is poor.
Reminds me of something a teacher at school once said. He was the basketball coach and we were training.

He remarked how a lot of the time, people would say 'bad luck' when you lose or you miss the basket - or get your footing wrong and can't turn back to defend in time. In his view, it was always 'poor skill' rather than 'bad luck'. He was absolutely right. It's not like there are atmospheric conditions getting in the way.

I would say the same is true most of the time in music. Things can go wrong that are out of your control but it is your job as a musician to be skilled enough to right those situations. If you forget to take a tom with you, you should be able to play with a tom missing. If a cymbal cracks through no fault of your own, decide whether or not to use it (as an effect, is it appropriate?). There are very few things that can go so spectacularly wrong that the gig is cancelled. Instead, it's up to you to have the skill to put in a performance.
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Old 06-02-2014, 03:44 AM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
What do I do to get over my own perceptions. Well I really can't escape them, but I can learn to question if what I think I am hearing is what is actually going on. What I mean is to try and hear what is honestly happening, despite my own fallibility in perceiving something. So it's like a mental focus to make sure my own misconstrusions don't get in the way. A cynical ear may be another way to put it.

Awareness...the metronome speeding up is a great example. I heard it and said, damn, it seems like it's accelerating. Of course, I realize that the problem is, as always, with ME. Awareness = realizing my own shortcomings, and being totally honest about them. Knowing where I am deficient is essential to correcting the deficit. Then it comes down to work ethic, talent and just being able to be a freestylin white chocolate.
Ah, it's definitely the freestylin while chocolate element that I've been missing. ;-)

A cynical ear, like that. Or perhaps a critical ear. If you're like me (and god I hope for your sake your not), the deficits in perception aren't consistent and this makes it a bit tougher. There are times when I'm on a gig and I can't not play consistent time, it's just so obvious and easy (kind of like when you are playing back a recording of yourself--any fluctuations stand out in a big way). Other times it seems to require more effort to focus. Then there are times when the recording presents a different "reality" than what I experienced. This happened on a recent gig where I was sure I had the tempo of one particular tune dead nuts on, only to find out later that it was much too slow. Ouch.

One thing I've been toying with lately is sort of "letting go" of the time but then checking back in regularly. Hard to explain, but I recently heard a drummer (Joe Crabtree) use the analogy of bouncing a ball against the wall, that there's a part in the cycle where you let go of it, let it do its thing and let it come back to you. Again, hard to describe but for me, it's a mental process that makes use of imagery and then, I reckon, memory systems in the brain. And I suppose it's also a way to remind myself not to focus too much.

But going back to perceptions, I've discovered I'm in much better shape for time keeping if I'm well rested. If I've not been getting enough sleep, then it's time to be extra careful so I can play well in spite of myself.
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  #31  
Old 06-02-2014, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Interesting thread. I've actually discovered in my own playing, is that if I start listening too much to the rest of the band - waiting for a cue or a lick or some vocal hook, I start to subtly slow down my tempo. A friend of mine made me aware of this, I had no idea I did it. It took some self analysis to find the exact problem, it just happens during songs I'm not familiar with.
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  #32  
Old 06-02-2014, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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I've said it earlier and I'll say it again:

Trying to place blame or credit on anything except yourself for your playing is a sure ticket to mediocrity. The "cause" is always you.

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absolutely untrue, BUT, we have to be open to the possibility.
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  #33  
Old 06-03-2014, 01:48 AM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Perish the thought it may be the drummer who is responsible for the way the drummer is playing. That would mean accounatbility for what we are doing. And I'm well aware that in 2014 there is no accountability......not when it's far easier to blame the drum kit than turn the eyes inward and focus on the actual crux of the issue.
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Old 06-03-2014, 08:39 AM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Yep......you guys are right.
I was just fired from the band.

All my fault. Not the kit.
A lesson learned.
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  #35  
Old 06-03-2014, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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Yep......you guys are right.
I was just fired from the band.

All my fault. Not the kit.
A lesson learned.
Many times failure is the best teacher. You have learned something about your playing and have taken steps to improve it by buying a metronome.

Don't sweat it about the band, there are a million bands out there and a good drummer will always find a band. Just put in your hours in the shed and you'll get there.

Good Luck
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  #36  
Old 06-03-2014, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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Then there are times when the recording presents a different "reality" than what I experienced. This happened on a recent gig where I was sure I had the tempo of one particular tune dead nuts on, only to find out later that it was much too slow. Ouch.
In my drumming life, this is the thing that needs constant attention, tempos.
It's why I record, mainly. So I can reconcile what it felt like onstage, compared to listening the next day. Sometimes the 2 don't line up. Sometimes, like you, I think I'm dead nuts on. Only to be proven wrong by my friend the recorder.

Sometimes if I listen on the ride home, while still "under the effect" of the music, it sounds fine. But the next day, I'll re-listen and say....why did I think this was fine? So my perceptions trick and fool me. Having a recorder is the only chance I have at getting my perceptions to line up with what actually happened. It's something I think will always need attention, fine tuning my own perceptions.

Critical ear, that's a fine way of terming it too. It's weird when your own perceptions fool you. Not a good weird either.
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  #37  
Old 06-03-2014, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Bummer about the band, bro.

Hit that metronome. Blow em away with your solid fills over unbreakable beats next time.
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Old 06-03-2014, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Sometimes your timing is off acoustically. I use to play in a church and behind the kit and close I was right on time, but if you would step into the back it was like milliseconds behind. Recording it was spot one, but by ear and in the audience it did sound delayed. Sometimes you couldn't even hear the drum in the church-like they just melted into oblivion-which was frustrating when you thought you really did well for a change. They finally got a sound engineer to help with there problems.
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  #39  
Old 06-03-2014, 11:49 PM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

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Originally Posted by Jazz Man View Post
Yep......you guys are right.
I was just fired from the band.

All my fault. Not the kit.
A lesson learned.
Sorry to hear this man but I'm glad to hear there's been some learning that's come from it. Remember that it's a skill that can be developed.

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
In my drumming life, this is the thing that needs constant attention, tempos.
It's why I record, mainly.
Same here. With this instrument in particular, chops, coordination, independence, etc. aren't of much value if it doesn't groove. And yes, sometimes making it groove means pushing or pulling the tempo but I always want to be in control of that in the moment. So for me, there's this ongoing part of the work (or play?) that entails exactly what you are talking about, making use of the unbiased recorder who has the ability to hear things unfiltered by perception. Of course, our listening of the recording is moderated by processes involved with audio perception but it's a very different context to be listening back later than it is to be listening "in the moment" while performing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Sometimes if I listen on the ride home, while still "under the effect" of the music, it sounds fine. But the next day, I'll re-listen and say....why did I think this was fine? So my perceptions trick and fool me. Having a recorder is the only chance I have at getting my perceptions to line up with what actually happened. It's something I think will always need attention, fine tuning my own perceptions.
Know what you mean. I sometimes do professional writing related to my day job and waiting until the following day to read a draft offers a much clearer perspective that allows for critique. Same thing with music when you're "under the effect" as you say.

And I'm also with you regarding the fine tuning being an ongoing process. It's a worthy pursuit, I believe, as it makes me better equipped to do what I do at an increasingly higher level. Sort of an apprenticeship without end but in a very, very good way.
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  #40  
Old 06-05-2014, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: Cause of Meter Speeding Up Discovered.

Thanks!

This is a GREAT community.
MANY years of experience generously shared and appreciated.

LOTS of shedding ahead.....and listening!

Thanks again.
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