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  #1  
Old 10-24-2013, 01:20 PM
kuren84 kuren84 is offline
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Default Tactile monitoring/butt shaker

Hi all,

I have really like the idea of the whole Porter & Davies, Butt kicker, Throne shaker thing but can no way justify the expense, so I was thinking of other ways to this. I found various do it yourself ideas but then it dawned on me. What do I use everyday that vibrates? My electric toothbrush and my mobile phone. (I know what some of you were thinking :-) So then it got me thinking is there a way to hook up my mobile somehow to give me a feeling of this tactile monitoring without the price tag. I totally appreciate that it won't be the same and may be weak in comparison but thought it would be worth a go. And that is where you all come in. How/is this possible?

To all you budding engineers/gadgeteers and anyone else good luck.

Thanks
Kevin
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  #2  
Old 10-24-2013, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: Tactile monitoring/butt shaker

Sounds a lot more complicated than just using some sort of speaker...it's not as if they're terribly expensive either.
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  #3  
Old 10-25-2013, 05:36 PM
kuren84 kuren84 is offline
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Default Re: Tactile monitoring/butt shaker

Hi when you say use a speaker what exactly do you mean? Sorry if i'm being dumb.

Kevin
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:13 PM
Razbo Razbo is offline
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Default Re: Tactile monitoring/butt shaker

Wow, I had never heard of such a thing before. The reviews (the serious ones lol) seem to say it's a very good addition.

I did see this you tube vid for a DIY version as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVp0fu1nCvc
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  #5  
Old 10-25-2013, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: Tactile monitoring/butt shaker

The answer is no. You need some kind of trigger on the bass drum to send a discrete signal to an amplifier that would convert and amplify that signal into a voltage that can be sent when triggered. You then need something on the other end to convert that voltage into a useable format that you can feel. Your toothbrush or mobile phone pezio vibrators do not have the ability to be interfaced with the amplifier to vibrate on command.

You could convert it and amplify it to about 30 volts then stick the wires in your ass. That would be a real buttkicker.

In all seriousness, Im not sure what actually gives the user the "thump" feeling in the buttkicker, I'm assuming it works like a speaker magnet. You could DIY it, but it would probibly be cheaper just to buy one.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:54 PM
kuren84 kuren84 is offline
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Default Re: Tactile monitoring/butt shaker

Thanks guys i didn't think there would be a good alternative but worth an ask. Definitely don't want wires poking me up the butt either.

Kevin
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:20 AM
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Default Re: Tactile monitoring/butt shaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuren84 View Post
Hi all,

I have really like the idea of the whole Porter & Davies, Butt kicker, Throne shaker thing but can no way justify the expense, so I was thinking of other ways to this. I found various do it yourself ideas but then it dawned on me. What do I use everyday that vibrates? My electric toothbrush and my mobile phone. (I know what some of you were thinking :-) So then it got me thinking is there a way to hook up my mobile somehow to give me a feeling of this tactile monitoring without the price tag. I totally appreciate that it won't be the same and may be weak in comparison but thought it would be worth a go. And that is where you all come in. How/is this possible?

To all you budding engineers/gadgeteers and anyone else good luck.

Thanks
Kevin
Bermuda uses a device that's cheaper than the BCII & Gigster from P&D, & he rates it highly.

Tactile monitoring is not just a vibration thing, it's much more complicated than that in engineering terms. To be useful, it needs to truly represent what the drum is delivering, & that means fine dynamic representation as well as representative decay. The good stuff will even accurately replicate the bass drum note. You can even put a bass guitar through it! The P&D stuff is pro gear at a pro gear price. Pro's buy it for a reason - it's very good. I know many artists who use their tactile monitoring thrones. I have a BCII, & two of our artists use P&D thrones too.

If you really must go the DIY route, (& getting that right is all about control), many bolt on units use the same "shakers" supplied with cinema style surround sound seating. You could start your "quest" there.
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:31 AM
kuren84 kuren84 is offline
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Default Re: Tactile monitoring/butt shaker

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Bermuda uses a device that's cheaper than the BCII & Gigster from P&D, & he rates it highly.

Tactile monitoring is not just a vibration thing, it's much more complicated than that in engineering terms. To be useful, it needs to truly represent what the drum is delivering, & that means fine dynamic representation as well as representative decay. The good stuff will even accurately replicate the bass drum note. You can even put a bass guitar through it! The P&D stuff is pro gear at a pro gear price. Pro's buy it for a reason - it's very good. I know many artists who use their tactile monitoring thrones. I have a BCII, & two of our artists use P&D thrones too.

If you really must go the DIY route, (& getting that right is all about control), many bolt on units use the same "shakers" supplied with cinema style surround sound seating. You could start your "quest" there.
Thanks for the advice.

Kevin
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  #9  
Old 10-31-2013, 05:24 PM
matchgrip1 matchgrip1 is offline
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Default Re: Tactile monitoring/butt shaker

After a lot of research and thinking, I decided to go with the BC2 by Porter & Davies. I have had the unit now since late August of this year, and I am completely sold on the unit! I have internally mounted my earthworks mic using the Kelly Shu internal mount kit, and haven't had a sound engineer touch my kick mic configuration since. The P&D BC-2 is of course new to most engineers, and I prefer setting up my own monitor mix etc, so dialing in the BC-2 has been a learning experience for me. Mic positioning has ALOT to do with getting that perfect response from the tactile monitor throne. Once this bad boy is set properly, your body is literally tricked into being an audience member getting hit in the chest with that awesome kick feel. I have also found the the countour adjustment is also key in getting the unit to lock in to your stage mix. I carry this unit everywhere I perform now, to include small gigs in local rooms etc. Initially, I noticed that the internal anti-clip lighting started soaking a hot signal (keep in mind that you cannot clip this thing), so I adjusted the input and contour and I was locked right in. I have had engineers and techs just flipping out over this gear. You can't screw up the signal at all. If you are a drummer who uses a double pedal onslaught, it's right there without any delay. It's instantaneous. I chose the BC-2 because I like to have control over everything on stage, and I'm the guy who is setting up and breaking down, so the Gigster was not my choice since it is a rack mount unit. The BC-2 is built into the top of a very high quality flight case cube. You just undo the wing fasteners, flip it over, grab the included power cord, speakon connector and mic lines in and out, run the out into your snake and hand it over to the desk, plug the speakon into your throne seat, and you're set! Worth every cent. You won't ever want to play your kit without it again! It just feels weird without it even when I'm using my DW's! The P&D staff are awesome as well. Chances are, if you need a tech rep stateside, you are delaing with a direct employee who has "hands on" since there are only about 9 guys that build this thing. What I did find was that only one retail store in the U.S is (or was) carrying these, so I went direct ship out of the U.K. once I placed the order, Mr. Davies sent me the tracking info, and it was on my doorstep in three business days!
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  #10  
Old 11-01-2013, 10:38 AM
kuren84 kuren84 is offline
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Default Re: Tactile monitoring/butt shaker

Thank you so much for your thoughts and input. I know i would fall in love with it if i had one one but alas the price tag for now is a little bit much and the fiancee would not approve.

All the best
Kevin
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  #11  
Old 11-02-2013, 08:57 AM
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Florian Florian is offline
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Default Re: Tactile monitoring/butt shaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by matchgrip1 View Post
I chose the BC-2 because I like to have control over everything on stage, and I'm the guy who is setting up and breaking down, so the Gigster was not my choice since it is a rack mount unit.
Gigster is a standalone unit, you must be thinking of the BC-2rm. BTW, love my Gigster, it just kills it and has all the functionality of the more expensive units.


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  #12  
Old 11-02-2013, 03:05 PM
matchgrip1 matchgrip1 is offline
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Default Re: Tactile monitoring/butt shaker

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Originally Posted by Florian View Post
Gigster is a standalone unit, you must be thinking of the BC-2rm. BTW, love my Gigster, it just kills it and has all the functionality of the more expensive units.


F
Florian,

Yes, you are correct. I was speaking of the BC-2M. Anything by Porter & Davies kills! I really liked the Gister as well. The only reason I went with the BC-2 is because of the flight case configuration. It suited me well.
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2013, 11:38 AM
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Default Re: Tactile monitoring/butt shaker

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I have a BCII...
I tried for the first time the BC2 at Andy's back in August, let me tell you that it's amazing, the feel you get from it is like your BD's hitting you in the stomach, incredible... a bit strange at first, but after a few minutes you can't go without it, it's that good, expensive, but it's worth the money.
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  #14  
Old 11-05-2013, 12:00 PM
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Default Re: Tactile monitoring/butt shaker

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Originally Posted by Mad About Drums View Post
I tried for the first time the BC2 at Andy's back in August, let me tell you that it's amazing, the feel you get from it is like your BD's hitting you in the stomach, incredible... a bit strange at first, but after a few minutes you can't go without it, it's that good, expensive, but it's worth the money.
.
yes, that put a smile on Henri's face ;) The BC's ability to accurately mimic the bass drum's sonic contour in real time is unmatched IMHO. You can put other stuff through it too (e.g. bass guitar) but still retain separation.

Hey guys, the P&D stuff is pro touring gear, so it's built to take punishment, both physical & performance. It has a system that disperses excess heat & limits excessive delivery via a system of "bulbs". In other words, the units are designed specifically for this task, not adapted from other similar applications (i.e cinema effects seating, etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian View Post
Gigster is a standalone unit, you must be thinking of the BC-2rm. BTW, love my Gigster, it just kills it and has all the functionality of the more expensive units.


F
The BCII has phantom power built in. I'm not sure if the other units do. Not something I use as all my bass drum mic's are dynamic. The downside of the BCII is weight. It's built like a brick sh&^*&%e, & feels it. P&D throne tops are heavy too.
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