DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 03-28-2013, 12:04 AM
StickIt's Avatar
StickIt StickIt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Deep East Texas
Posts: 330
Default A little S-Hoop History

I had been under the impression that the "Stick Saver Hoop" was a Slingerland thing. And while this is not an important piece of info at all, I still found it a little interesting...

From a 1961 Tama (Actually "Star" which was pre-Tama) Catalog:

__________________
Practice, Improve, Repeat...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-28-2013, 01:08 AM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,819
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

It IS a Slingerland thing.Slingerland introduced the stick saver hoop in the 50's.Star simply copied it,as they copied lots of American drum company designs.So did Pearl and Yamaha.

They also copied most of the hardware and the sound king lug(Slingerland)and Broadcaster(Gretsch) lug design.Also note the oval badge,the soundking snare lugs and the 3 point strainer.....all used by Slingerland,some from the 40's on.They even copied the bridges used on the Slingerland Radio king snare drums,first introduced in 1936.

Steve B
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-28-2013, 04:34 PM
StickIt's Avatar
StickIt StickIt is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Deep East Texas
Posts: 330
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

Thanks for the reply. None of that surprises me, but it is a nice bit of info on drum history. I didn't even know that Tama (Star) was making drums that far back until yesterday, so I guess my knowledge is lacking in that area. Makes me wonder why they quit putting the S-Hoops on at all though...probably an expense thing?
__________________
Practice, Improve, Repeat...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-28-2013, 09:24 PM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,819
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

Quote:
Originally Posted by StickIt View Post
Thanks for the reply. None of that surprises me, but it is a nice bit of info on drum history. I didn't even know that Tama (Star) was making drums that far back until yesterday, so I guess my knowledge is lacking in that area. Makes me wonder why they quit putting the S-Hoops on at all though...probably an expense thing?
No...style really.The sticksaver hoops last flange of a tripple flange,bends inward.Though similar to the S hoop.it is slightly different,and no doubt was a design inspiration for the S hoop.

Most other triple flange hoops.bend outward.The cost of production is the same.Most drummers just prefered the look of this type of hoop.

Steve B

Last edited by tamadrm; 03-29-2013 at 09:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-29-2013, 02:25 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,365
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

I like the idea but had no clue they were that old. I would love to put one on my Steam Bent snare and protect the edges.
__________________
Johnny. Pictured left to right, Bermuda, Weird Al, Grunt.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-22-2014, 02:45 PM
Yoshinya's Avatar
Yoshinya Yoshinya is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Grand Rapids, MI USA
Posts: 219
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

I've no idea why the outward-flanged triple-flanged hoops became more popular, when the Stick Savers really are much better and definitely don't chew up your sticks nearly as much. Maybe it's a cost thing? Maybe inward-flanged hoops are a bit more expensive to make?

I think that the building popularity of S-Hoops is possibly making some drum manufacturers rethink this, though. Tama just added "Sound Arc" 1.6 mm hoops (basically stick saver hoops) to their Silverstar line, though I'm told this is only for the European market, so far). Additionally, some of the S.L.P. snare drums (Classic Maple, Power Maple, Super Aluminum, Vintage Steel) feature 2.3 mm Sound Arc hoops.

I bought an S.L.P. Vintage Steel late last year, and really love it. I'm a Die-Cast hoop guy, through and through, but these Sound Arcs might be changing my mind on that. I put them on my go-to Tama Starclassic Maple 14" x 5.5" (2003 era, with Sound Focus Rings) and it seemed to open the drum up much more nicely than a set of 2.3 mm triple-flanged I tried on it before.

I'm tempted to order another set of either Sound Arcs or a set of S-Hoops to try on my other snares. I hear that the S-Hoops are a great deal more rigid than a regular Stick Saver-style, though, which might make for even more sonic possibilities. Hmmm..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-22-2014, 04:34 PM
FreDrummer's Avatar
FreDrummer FreDrummer is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 577
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshinya View Post
I hear that the S-Hoops are a great deal more rigid than a regular Stick Saver-style, though, which might make for even more sonic possibilities. Hmmm..
That is the claim -- that they are almost as rigid as die cast, and enhance rimshots, yet retain the openness of triple flanged. I have them on two snares and really like them.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-22-2014, 04:53 PM
Florian's Avatar
Florian Florian is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,059
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

I have them on all my drums, love them!

F
__________________
Sonor SQ2/S Classix/Ascent
Paiste/UFiP/Evans/Vater/Pearl
Porter & Davies
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-22-2014, 08:41 PM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,819
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoshinya View Post
I've no idea why the outward-flanged triple-flanged hoops became more popular, when the Stick Savers really are much better and definitely don't chew up your sticks nearly as much. Maybe it's a cost thing? Maybe inward-flanged hoops are a bit more expensive to make?

I think that the building popularity of S-Hoops is possibly making some drum manufacturers rethink this, though. Tama just added "Sound Arc" 1.6 mm hoops (basically stick saver hoops) to their Silverstar line, though I'm told this is only for the European market, so far). Additionally, some of the S.L.P. snare drums (Classic Maple, Power Maple, Super Aluminum, Vintage Steel) feature 2.3 mm Sound Arc hoops.

I bought an S.L.P. Vintage Steel late last year, and really love it. I'm a Die-Cast hoop guy, through and through, but these Sound Arcs might be changing my mind on that. I put them on my go-to Tama Starclassic Maple 14" x 5.5" (2003 era, with Sound Focus Rings) and it seemed to open the drum up much more nicely than a set of 2.3 mm triple-flanged I tried on it before.

I'm tempted to order another set of either Sound Arcs or a set of S-Hoops to try on my other snares. I hear that the S-Hoops are a great deal more rigid than a regular Stick Saver-style, though, which might make for even more sonic possibilities. Hmmm..
It wasn't a cost thing at all.You simply use a different bending wheel in the press,to bend inward as oppose to outward,so the cost factor is exactly the same.Premier also used that design .

S-hoops are more rigid,because they are thicker,and use more material that typical 2.3 mm triple flange hoops.

Steve B
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-22-2014, 10:27 PM
Sjogras's Avatar
Sjogras Sjogras is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 610
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

I've been using S-Hoops for a while now, and I like eveything about them.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-22-2014, 10:36 PM
Red Menace's Avatar
Red Menace Red Menace is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 2,810
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

I bought my father in law one for his LM400 and he loves it. Gives him that extra oomph on the rimshots without drying out the tone.
__________________
Classy grip all day.

Mah Rogers
Snares
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-22-2014, 11:12 PM
Starship Krupa's Avatar
Starship Krupa Starship Krupa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Alameda, CA USA
Posts: 154
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

I'm catching a small whiff of confusion, so to clarify, an S-Hoop is a recent product, currently marketed by Ahead and Big Bang Distribution.

The Stick Saver was introduced by Slingerland in the 1950's.

The Stick Saver is similar to a standard triple flanged hoop, but with the top rim curved inward to help prevent stick damage.

The S-Hoop's top is more sharply bent inward, and sits closer to the drum head. Part of the idea is to also cover the bearing edge of the drum and thereby protect it from damage.

I've tried both, and I was surprised to find that I prefer the Stick Saver. Rim clicks are an important part of my playing, and I like the rim click of the Stick Saver better. Maybe because the rim sits up higher? Anyway, I have an S-Hoop on my WFL snare, and Stick Savers on all the others.

My kit is a Slingerland, so it came with Stick Savers on all of the drums.

My guess regarding why the Stick Saver style has not seen greater adoption is that Slingerland may have deterred other US manufacturers from using the design. There is a patent on it, now expired.

Anyway, both the S-Hoop and the Stick Saver are improvements over the standard triple flange, and an easy and inexpensive way to customize your drums. The price of one is about the same as two pairs of sticks, so if you're a chopper, they'll pay it back in a matter of weeks.
__________________
----
Erik
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-22-2014, 11:42 PM
dat yeti's Avatar
dat yeti dat yeti is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 159
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

Always wanted to try the original s hoops. I have the new s hoops and they're really nice. Like die casts and flange too.

One thing I've tried is using gibraltar drum bumpers on my flange rims since I want my sticks to last a little longer, and it kinda works, only tried a few times and after so many hits you have to move them back where you want them. No idea if they will last as they probably compress.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-23-2014, 02:09 AM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,365
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

Well I have done so. Put one on my Maple steam bent snare. Very good $18.00 investment.
__________________
Johnny. Pictured left to right, Bermuda, Weird Al, Grunt.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-23-2014, 02:23 AM
bobdadruma's Avatar
bobdadruma bobdadruma is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: second measure of a fill-in
Posts: 11,176
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

Let us not forget that before there were Stick Saver and S-Hoops, there were sharp and straight Stick Chopper hoops. I have some of these devils neatly tucked away in a wooden crate in my closet with two padlocks on it :) Some evil should be kept locked up and not released on the world.
__________________
I kind of like old drums:)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-23-2014, 05:56 AM
mandrew mandrew is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,262
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

S-hoops work great on my customized Acrolite!
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-23-2014, 12:01 PM
mpthomson mpthomson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 373
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
It wasn't a cost thing at all.You simply use a different bending wheel in the press,to bend inward as oppose to outward,so the cost factor is exactly the same.Premier also used that design .

S-hoops are more rigid,because they are thicker,and use more material that typical 2.3 mm triple flange hoops.

Steve B
Point of order, Premier never used stick saver type flanged hoops. What they did do was to put die-cast hoops (which look as though they have a rollover, but it's just the casting) that they called 'cushion rim hoops' on just about everything including toms, except the very cheapest ranges, which originally had single flange and then 'normal' triple flange hoops.

Premier still use the basic design of these diecast hoops to this day.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-23-2014, 01:59 PM
drum4fun27302 drum4fun27302 is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,388
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

I have one on my 13 Steve Jordan snare and love. It gives a much simpler line and do save me some sticks !!!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-23-2014, 07:02 PM
tamadrm tamadrm is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,819
Default Re: A little S-Hoop History

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpthomson View Post
Point of order, Premier never used stick saver type flanged hoops. What they did do was to put die-cast hoops (which look as though they have a rollover, but it's just the casting) that they called 'cushion rim hoops' on just about everything including toms, except the very cheapest ranges, which originally had single flange and then 'normal' triple flange hoops.

Premier still use the basic design of these diecast hoops to this day.
While Premiers were in fact die cast,the design,was the same as stick savers.They were flanged inward,the same way stick savers(aka rim shot) are,and the two designs resemble one another.

Steve B
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com