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  #1  
Old 10-15-2012, 02:00 PM
Tjenkins Tjenkins is offline
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Default Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

I am new users to this forum and a moderate drummer and I need your help determining which set is better. I had the Yamaha stage Custom first and I like the set accept how high the toms sing, I was using the Remo black suede heads with tone rings and it helped the sound a lot. Played a couple of gigs and church they were quick setup but I ened up selling the kit to a church in need. I went and purchased the Pearl Vision VB825/B black which was a little cheaper but the guy at Guitarcenter told me that if I wanted a deeper tone in my drum I need bigger drums so I went with the pearl which is 12,13,16, I have the black suede heads again with an Aquarian Super Kick 2 drum head. Here my problem and I know this seems strange but I don't like the setup of the Peal. With using the Pearl Intergrated susupension system for the toms and having to use the drum key and lever adjustment I can't find a setup for the toms that I like. I feel like I have to set the drums so high to keep them flat that I need a higher drumseat but I did not need that with the Yamaha. With the Yamaha it was very easy to setup things up, with the movable tom it was so easy to setup. Here is my probel is it I am not giving myself a chance to get use to Pearl or was the Yamaha just a better set. I am considerning taking taking the pearl back have not played on it yet, just put the heads on, not even tuned them yet. My equipment has to sound right and look right and something about this pearl looks odd setup. I have searched for reviews on the set but can't find any. At the same time I think the set is going to sound good so I am torn can you help me make some sense of this madness?
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:51 PM
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alparrott alparrott is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjenkins View Post
I am new users to this forum and a moderate drummer and I need your help determining which set is better. I had the Yamaha stage Custom first and I like the set accept how high the toms sing, I was using the Remo black suede heads with tone rings and it helped the sound a lot. Played a couple of gigs and church they were quick setup but I ened up selling the kit to a church in need. I went and purchased the Pearl Vision VB825/B black which was a little cheaper but the guy at Guitarcenter told me that if I wanted a deeper tone in my drum I need bigger drums so I went with the pearl which is 12,13,16, I have the black suede heads again with an Aquarian Super Kick 2 drum head. Here my problem and I know this seems strange but I don't like the setup of the Peal. With using the Pearl Intergrated susupension system for the toms and having to use the drum key and lever adjustment I can't find a setup for the toms that I like. I feel like I have to set the drums so high to keep them flat that I need a higher drumseat but I did not need that with the Yamaha. With the Yamaha it was very easy to setup things up, with the movable tom it was so easy to setup. Here is my probel is it I am not giving myself a chance to get use to Pearl or was the Yamaha just a better set. I am considerning taking taking the pearl back have not played on it yet, just put the heads on, not even tuned them yet. My equipment has to sound right and look right and something about this pearl looks odd setup. I have searched for reviews on the set but can't find any. At the same time I think the set is going to sound good so I am torn can you help me make some sense of this madness?
Personally, while the shells are probably pretty comparable, I would go back to the Yammies. Yamaha hardware is light-years better than Pearl's at that price point. I have found the Pearl tubes don't stay where you set them unless they're memory locked (and most adjustment points on most of their stands don't include memory locks). And on this forum, you will not find very much, if any, popular support for the ISS mounts on the Vision.

Meanwhile, the Stage Custom Birch enjoys a pretty solid reputation around here as one of the best-made intermediate kits out there.

If you can't position stuff and get comfy behind it, that would be a big dead giveaway in my book.
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  #3  
Old 10-15-2012, 04:02 PM
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Xero Talent Xero Talent is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

Yamaha, hands down .
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  #4  
Old 10-15-2012, 04:06 PM
Tjenkins Tjenkins is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

I feel so much better I thought I was missing something, now I have to call Guitarcenter about bringing the Pearl back. My gut told me to go with Yamaha I should have listened

Quote:
Originally Posted by alparrott View Post
Personally, while the shells are probably pretty comparable, I would go back to the Yammies. Yamaha hardware is light-years better than Pearl's at that price point. I have found the Pearl tubes don't stay where you set them unless they're memory locked (and most adjustment points on most of their stands don't include memory locks). And on this forum, you will not find very much, if any, popular support for the ISS mounts on the Vision.

Meanwhile, the Stage Custom Birch enjoys a pretty solid reputation around here as one of the best-made intermediate kits out there.

If you can't position stuff and get comfy behind it, that would be a big dead giveaway in my book.
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  #5  
Old 10-15-2012, 04:36 PM
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wildbill wildbill is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

IMO, Yamaha has the best tom mounting system available.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjenkins View Post

....I had the Yamaha stage Custom first and I like the set accept how high the toms sing,...


With some tuning and the right heads, you'll be able to find the sound you're after.
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  #6  
Old 10-15-2012, 04:46 PM
Tjenkins Tjenkins is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

I have to agree after dealing with this pearl


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IMO, Yamaha has the best tom mounting system available.






With some tuning and the right heads, you'll be able to find the sound you're after.
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  #7  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

You probably were hearing the toms "sing" because of the cheap stock heads on the Stage Custom. They are pretty nasty. A proper batter head and a proper tuning does wonders, and not necessarily a particularly muffled head. I run coated Evans G2s on my Stage Custom toms (with clear G1s underneath) with no muffling at all. It sounds big and tubby behind the kit, but out front it sounds like angels tapdancing on tuned trampolines.
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  #8  
Old 10-15-2012, 08:13 PM
Tjenkins Tjenkins is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

I will be the first to admit I am not the greatest at tuning, I have watched a few youtube videos and tried to duplicate but I have never achieved that great sound in which you don't need a muffling ring. I bought the Remo Black Suede heads because I was told they would give me the lowest tone. You have just taught me that I need to invest in decent lower heads did not know they made that much of a difference. I know there are strategies I think where if you tune the lower head higher than the batter head to give the drum a cutoff instead of longer overtone or vice versa. I have spoken to Guitarcenter and I am going to return the Pearl and get the Stage custom with the 22' kick. I am curious what is the advantage or disadvantage to using a 22' kick over the 20' kick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alparrott View Post
You probably were hearing the toms "sing" because of the cheap stock heads on the Stage Custom. They are pretty nasty. A proper batter head and a proper tuning does wonders, and not necessarily a particularly muffled head. I run coated Evans G2s on my Stage Custom toms (with clear G1s underneath) with no muffling at all. It sounds big and tubby behind the kit, but out front it sounds like angels tapdancing on tuned trampolines.
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  #9  
Old 10-15-2012, 08:22 PM
Tjenkins Tjenkins is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

Here is the set I am hoping they have it in black or Honey Amber

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Yamaha-S...28-i2248725.gc
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  #10  
Old 10-15-2012, 10:57 PM
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alparrott alparrott is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjenkins View Post
I will be the first to admit I am not the greatest at tuning, I have watched a few youtube videos and tried to duplicate but I have never achieved that great sound in which you don't need a muffling ring. I bought the Remo Black Suede heads because I was told they would give me the lowest tone. You have just taught me that I need to invest in decent lower heads did not know they made that much of a difference. I know there are strategies I think where if you tune the lower head higher than the batter head to give the drum a cutoff instead of longer overtone or vice versa. I have spoken to Guitarcenter and I am going to return the Pearl and get the Stage custom with the 22' kick. I am curious what is the advantage or disadvantage to using a 22' kick over the 20' kick?
The advantage of the 20" as opposed to the 22" is a little more punch and rebound as opposed to the bigger 22". While you do not get quite as low a note as the 20" that actually helps the kick to cut a little through the racket of the other instruments.

And also, that 2 extra inches is a couple of extra pounds, too. The 20" is easier to fit into a backseat if you haven't got a hatchback. (As a smaller guy, i find my toms can also sit lower.)
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  #11  
Old 10-15-2012, 11:32 PM
Tjenkins Tjenkins is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

So it would be better to stick with the 20' Kick and you make great points


Quote:
Originally Posted by alparrott View Post
The advantage of the 20" as opposed to the 22" is a little more punch and rebound as opposed to the bigger 22". While you do not get quite as low a note as the 20" that actually helps the kick to cut a little through the racket of the other instruments.

And also, that 2 extra inches is a couple of extra pounds, too. The 20" is easier to fit into a backseat if you haven't got a hatchback. (As a smaller guy, i find my toms can also sit lower.)
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  #12  
Old 10-15-2012, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

Quote:
Originally Posted by alparrott View Post

.... it sounds like angels tapdancing on tuned trampolines....

LOL

Mine too - ha ha.


About the bass drum sizes - besides the difference in pitch, feel, responsiveness, and so on, it also can make a difference for how your toms are positioned (as alparrott mentioned).

I'm average height for a male in the USA.
I used to have a 22" kick with deep power toms, and never realized that it wasn't the right fit for me.
I switched to a 20" bass drum, with the Stage Custom tom depth, and everything feels comfy/cozy now. Fits like a glove.
20" bass drum will always be my main size kit from now on, for many reasons.

Here's a peek at my latest kit: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=96122
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  #13  
Old 10-16-2012, 04:50 AM
Tjenkins Tjenkins is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

After several hours at Guitarcenter the Yamaha Birch Stage Custom is back in my posession along with Evans EC2 Coated Fusion Pack but I think I made a mistake of just asking for Evans resonant heads because they gave me Genera Resonant Clear heads which by looking at the chart it has long sustain which from reading the chart it sounds like I want the G1 instead and the Aquarian Super Kick II bass head. Evans rings just in case I can't acheive the proper sustain I want but I want to thank everyone who replied in this thread today you really helped me improve my kit and sound.
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  #14  
Old 10-16-2012, 01:35 PM
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Xero Talent Xero Talent is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

Quote:
Originally Posted by alparrott View Post
You probably were hearing the toms "sing" because of the cheap stock heads on the Stage Custom. They are pretty nasty. A proper batter head and a proper tuning does wonders, and not necessarily a particularly muffled head. I run coated Evans G2s on my Stage Custom toms (with clear G1s underneath) with no muffling at all. It sounds big and tubby behind the kit, but out front it sounds like angels tapdancing on tuned trampolines.
I have Remo Pinstripes on my SC Advantage toms and they sound fantastic, a nice fat tone. On my kick batter (24"), it's a Powerstroke 3. I have a few snares, but on my 5.5" S/C wood snare, I'm just using a standard Coated Ambassador and it's a nice dry crack - the driest of all my snares.

Here's my latest recording with them in my studio if you'd like to have a listen to how the Stage Customs sound with Pinstripes. The toms are all raw - now EQ or post-processing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2ncOZb82_I
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  #15  
Old 10-16-2012, 03:35 PM
Tjenkins Tjenkins is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

Nice setup what size are your toms? This video was cool as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...&v=hVuh1TRceHY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xero Talent View Post
I have Remo Pinstripes on my SC Advantage toms and they sound fantastic, a nice fat tone. On my kick batter (24"), it's a Powerstroke 3. I have a few snares, but on my 5.5" S/C wood snare, I'm just using a standard Coated Ambassador and it's a nice dry crack - the driest of all my snares.

Here's my latest recording with them in my studio if you'd like to have a listen to how the Stage Customs sound with Pinstripes. The toms are all raw - now EQ or post-processing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2ncOZb82_I
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  #16  
Old 10-16-2012, 04:27 PM
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Xero Talent Xero Talent is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

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Originally Posted by Tjenkins View Post
Nice setup what size are your toms? This video was cool as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotat...&v=hVuh1TRceHY
Ah thanks man :) I have more recordings on my SoundCloud page if you want to hear more (see my sig below)

Toms are:
10" x 8" tom
12" x 9" tom
13" x 10" tom
16" x 14" floor tom
24" x 17" bass drum
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  #17  
Old 10-17-2012, 04:29 PM
ConvertedLudwigPlayer ConvertedLudwigPlayer is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

Check out the Johhny Lord video's on The Hub on Yamaha's site. you'll have to noddle around a little on the site to find it.
https://www.yamaha.com/thehub/home.html
Click Drums and Percussion at the top, then look at the Library on the left side and scroll down for Acoustic Drum Tuning on the left side, and look for the ones with Johnny Lord.

I have found his tuning method to be the easiest and fastest for low tuning.

Keep in mind that what you are hearing behind the kit is different than what others will hear out in front of the kit. The tuning rings are fine for practicing by yourself, etc., but they would get lost in the mix. That ringing that you hear and the higher pitches will blend in with live playing and help your sound to project and be heard.
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  #18  
Old 10-17-2012, 04:37 PM
Tjenkins Tjenkins is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

Now I have never thought about it that way of what the sound is like in front of the kit. I will check out the video

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConvertedLudwigPlayer View Post
Check out the Johhny Lord video's on The Hub on Yamaha's site. you'll have to noddle around a little on the site to find it.
https://www.yamaha.com/thehub/home.html
Click Drums and Percussion at the top, then look at the Library on the left side and scroll down for Acoustic Drum Tuning on the left side, and look for the ones with Johnny Lord.

I have found his tuning method to be the easiest and fastest for low tuning.

Keep in mind that what you are hearing behind the kit is different than what others will hear out in front of the kit. The tuning rings are fine for practicing by yourself, etc., but they would get lost in the mix. That ringing that you hear and the higher pitches will blend in with live playing and help your sound to project and be heard.
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  #19  
Old 10-17-2012, 04:46 PM
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Xero Talent Xero Talent is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConvertedLudwigPlayer View Post
Check out the Johhny Lord video's on The Hub on Yamaha's site. you'll have to noddle around a little on the site to find it.
https://www.yamaha.com/thehub/home.html
Click Drums and Percussion at the top, then look at the Library on the left side and scroll down for Acoustic Drum Tuning on the left side, and look for the ones with Johnny Lord.
Awesome, never saw that before, nor have I seen this approach. I may spend this evening retuning my drums to see how that method works :)
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Old 10-17-2012, 04:59 PM
ConvertedLudwigPlayer ConvertedLudwigPlayer is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

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Originally Posted by Xero Talent View Post
Awesome, never saw that before, nor have I seen this approach. I may spend this evening retuning my drums to see how that method works :)
It really is the fastest method I have seen. I don't use it on all of my kits, but it makes the ones I do use it on sound nice and deep and tubby.

I forgot to add that it is tougher to do with coated heads.
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  #21  
Old 10-17-2012, 05:23 PM
Tjenkins Tjenkins is offline
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Default Re: Yamaha Stage Custom vs Pearl Vision Birch

The video you posted is close to this one I used to tune my toms. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISdMNKb-hjc

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Now I have never thought about it that way of what the sound is like in front of the kit. I will check out the video
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