Ringo

tamadrm said:

I have said that about a few drummers,especially Ringo over the years.The 'fit"was perfect,especially later on.On Sgt. Peppers his drumming is epic.I'm not saying its the pinnacle of technical drumming,but is is a lesson in taste and musical drumming,which Ringo has demonstrated numerous times over the years,and on every tune he plays on..

I can't think of Rush without Peart,or the Who without Moonie,Zep without Bonham,Deep Purple without Paice.The list can go on. The point is,none of these bands would have achieved their level of success without their drummers unique style and what they brought to the party.The Beatles without Ringo?

Steve B

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Totally agree with you. I don't know what Purdie is smoking or was..? I love his drumming too but you gotta admit that his allegations sure keep his name out there in the news, etc. Maybe he did overdub work on the horrible Beatles Hamburg, Germany tapes from 1960 or something. I dunno. But yes yes yes it's all about Ringo's "taste" for playing.
Awesome. My brother is in a successful local Beatles tribute band. They pack the houses locally and have been together for 10 years and the drummer STILL is not even close to "getting" Ringo's playing down. Proof that it may sound easy to play but in reality it ain't.

If Pete Best were not fired and Ringo was not hired, we could have seen /heard something different from the beatles songs.... still we would have said.. the drummer played for the song.

Ringo was my first drum teacher, so he's kinda like my Obi wan. Then I heard Zeppelin and found my Yoda lol.

My family didn't have a CD player, but we did have the entire Beatles catalog on vinyl and an old record player.

Ringo was pretty darned sneaky with some of his stuff, sounds all simple. But you play that exact figure and it doesn't sound quite right. Dynamics, Accents, Melodic and bouncy tom fills. Oh god I love Ringo's drumming!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even now, when I'm feeling stuck in a rut, I'll just put on the white album (vinyl,) blast it through my PA and get back in the groove (literally)

I think the one of the biggest things you can take away from Ringo is his feel. Everything else he did was fantastic. But the man can drop a groove bomb. One of my favorites is "While my guitar gently weeps" right after the intro. Every song grooved like mad, because of Sir Ringo and Sir Paul.

-Kyle

Pollyanna said:

No one knows how much of it was his intuition and how much came from Paul's and John's instructions.

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According to Geoff Emerick (one of the Beatles' main recording engineers) in his book "Here, There and Everywhere" - a MUST read for any Beatles fan - John would rarely instruct Ringo on any drum parts whereas Paul would often have specific recommendations to Ringo about what to play.

Barry

barryabko said:

According to Geoff Emerick (one of the Beatles' main recording engineers) in his book "Here, There and Everywhere" a MUST read for any Beatles fan - John would rarely instruct Ringo on any drum parts whereas Paul would often have specific recommendations to Ringo about what to play.

Barry

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Definitely the best and most informative book about the Beatles music and recording ever. Hands down. The man was in the studio with them from (almost) from beginning to end.

aydee said:

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Beatles music is littered with many fantastic and unique drum parts. Not just nice generic grooves, but individual rhythms which custom fit the song. So yea, RIngo, in addition to having his one groovy vibe was also compositionally very strong, like Bonham, Peart, Garibaldi, Gadd, and dare I say, Keith Moon.


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Abe, dare I say that is almost a direct quote. I like the Keith Moon bit though.

Ringo (or someone advising him) came up with parts that were very unusual. Get Back? Ticket to Ride? Where did those rhythms come from? Quite creative.

Pretty Purdie did do sessions with The Beatles but Ringo's parts were definitely his: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25517

Barry, I've read the Geoff Emerick book (very enjoyable) ... it tells of some parts (like Ticket to Ride) that were Pauls' idea but there's still a lot we don't know. Funny thing, no matter who you read about - be it George Martin, Geoff Emerick, John Paul, George ... they always try to make you think that they were the critical component

Doctor Dirt, it depends how you define "great drummer". To me, if the music sounds great then the drummer has done a great job. Chops have almost nothing to do with it. Playing a drum part that helps the song reach its fruition ... that's what Ringo was great at (and may well still be great at it).

I believe the part about Purdie playing on earlier Beatle singles when Pete Best was in the band.Ringo hadn't even joined the band yet.But his other claims are nonsense.Some of the tunes and albums were already released,so why would you want to overtrak drums on an album that is a gold record?

Like i've said before,he is a great drummer...one of the best studio drummers of all time.But as many in the business have said..a pathological liar.

Steve B

Solid, solid back beat. That's Ringo.

Also, back in the day it was almost live recording. Takes done as a band, and any mistakes mean starting again. Cant fix it in the mix.
No click track back then, the drummer and the rest of the band kept the tempo.

Look at the youtube of the Beatles at Shea stadium, Ringo is the best musician on the stage, and without monitors, not that they could have heard them anyway above the noise of the audience.

When Ringo sings during the gig they take a straight mike stand, stick it in front of him, next to the snare, and off he goes, flat based cymbal stands swaying alarmingly.

The reason early producers were not keen on Ringo or most pop/rock drummers, was because they were still based in old style recording methods and musical styles. The bass drum patterns of the new wave of drummers were alien to producers like, even, George Martin, who were used to the old tin pan alley way of recording music. That is why they sometimes insisted on session drummers, until they saw the light.

larryz said:

With all due respect, I'm not sure what you mean by your statement and what your reference source is?

As far as my knowledge of Beatles history, they used only a 4-track recorder up to and including Sgt. Pepper's album (June 1967). They didn't really technologically catch up with the times until their final LP Abbey Road.

Are you saying that Ringo's playing isn't all that great and that things could have dubbed over and over to get the right sound? I'm lost...

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This man claims to have overdubbed on 21 Beatles songs. http://www.jimvallance.com/03-projects-folder/purdie-project-folder/pg-purdie.html


I think on some later songs ringo played 2 different tracks layered on top of each other.

For instance, ringo overdubbed cymbals on Good Day Sunshine.

Paul played drums on Back in the USSR. Ringo had left the band.

Btw I am a BIG Beatles fan and have many (vinyl) albums. Imho vinyl sounds the best!

Pollyanna said:

Pretty Purdie did do sessions with The Beatles but Ringo's parts were definitely his: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25517

Barry, I've read the Geoff Emerick book (very enjoyable) ... it tells of some parts (like Ticket to Ride) that were Pauls' idea but there's still a lot we don't know. Funny thing, no matter who you read about - be it George Martin, Geoff Emerick, John Paul, George ... they always try to make you think that they were the critical component

Doctor Dirt, it depends how you define "great drummer". To me, if the music sounds great then the drummer has done a great job. Chops have almost nothing to do with it. Playing a drum part that helps the song reach its fruition ... that's what Ringo was great at (and may well still be great at it).

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I'm glad you brought up the Geoff Emerick book because I've been assailed here and there (actually not here) for stating that Ringo created the big drum sound when Geoff says it was him. But as you said, how do we know. Perhaps Ringo said, I want a bigger drum sound, and Ringo would be the last to want to take credit for anything. I am leery of the Gottfridsson book as well, which stated that Purdie played on the Tony Sheridan recordings. I was actually the one that brought that book to the fore. But they would have flown Purdi4 to London, I don't think you would forget that. Now we can hear those recording in digital and hear that there is not overdubbing of the parts.

Purdie has changed his story as well, from I played on 20 songs, to I overdubbed songs now claiming that Ringo drummed over his drum parts, which were used as a reference. Look, I love Purdie, and am not going to blame him for being overly suspicious in a business where people are routinely ripped off, not given credit, and stabbed in the back, especially back then. Musicians were rarely ever credited for being on a track, and their input to the final product was rarely protected under copyright. Who knew that sampling would become an issue? Who knew that music would still be around 40-50 years hence?

If you want to emulate Ringo, don't emulate Ringo. Be unique and found a particular way to approach every song you do. The elements to keep in mind are the way that Ringo could play a variety of feels and bring in a unique feel for every song.

I think we are all sometimes guilty of over stating musicianship, for want of a better word.
I dont think anyone would claim that any of the Beatles were "virtuoso" musicians.
None of them had what you would call a "great" voice.

But, put John, George, Paul and Ringo in a band and magic happened. Its like baking, or cooking, get the right ingredients and you have great outcome.

What can not be denied, even by those who dont like the Beatles music, is that the Beatles were, and still are, the most influential music group of the last century.

Its about how a band sparks between the members, not weather any of them can play a double kick at 200 beats per second or can emulate every note Jimmi Hendrix ever played.

.

Very well put Mike. I grew up with the Beatles. I started playing drums two years before they made it to the USA. I like the Beatles a lot. I have everything they recorded, even some 8mm film that is not on their Anthology series that I may sell one day. Did I lik eall of their music ? No. Did I like them? Obviously. What I don't understand is why we feel a need to dissect everything they or Ringo did. Johnny Cash sounded like crap and made billions. Bob Dylan should have kept writing and never sang a note but he did and made billions. It's all in who we like. There is no contest or I am better than him. Ringo made, and is still making more money than any of us could ever dream of. His concerts, although small venues, are still sold out.
Who cares? The people that pay to see him love him for who and what he is. Take some advice from the BeaTles and , Let It Be.

Lively discussion, but getting back to my original question, the takeaways for me as I work on these songs seem to be the following - Ringo's fills and textures often tend to follow the vocals / melody rather than the bass. He often began his fills with his left hand. At times he did not ride, and because the parts are very sparse in places, micro timing is key. Easy on the crashes


Thanks!

shadowtick said:

Lively discussion, but getting back to my original question, the takeaways for me as I work on these songs seem to be the following - Ringo's fills and textures often tend to follow the vocals / melody rather than the bass. He often began his fills with his left hand. At times he did not ride, and because the parts are very sparse in places, micro timing is key. Easy on the crashes


Thanks!

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There is a good book from Hal Leonard with Beatles drum transcriptions.

Things to look for in Ringo is his treatment of the high hat. He uses a variety of open and closed sounds as well as straight and swung feels. His doesn't just play eight on the hh because that what everyone dose. He mixes it up. He very rarely used ghost notes, I've Got A Feeling, although drummers were doing that in the early 60s. He accents the upbeat of two in the Mersey Beat. He emphasizes the one on the bass drum, and the earlier tunes have sparse bass drum to allow for the bass guitar to play more melodically. Drum parts are sparse yes, listen to While My Guitar Gently Weeps, great half-time feel.

Doctor Dirt said:

He sure beats the crap out of listening to Charlie Watts play the exact same thing for 45 years on just about every song. Now theres a group I can visualize alot of drummers in and they could have used a musical focal point because no one in in that group has outstanding talent on their instruments. Saw them 3 or 4 times since the early 60s and without Jagger being a good front man there'd be no reason to stay and listen to these guys play Chuck Berry tunes about as bad as anyone I ever heard. Thank god for take 2 and on in a studio, live their weak at best. Am I ranting? damn I am! Lunch time. Doc

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in the same respect I find "Gimme Shelter" to be THE most perfect song/record EVER recorded. that tune has more life than any other song ever.

on some of the later stuff you will notice some of Ringos fills are quite interesting because he was lefty playing on a righty kit and led his fills with his left hand

I love me some Ringo

chops master?....no

kick ass drummer?...... absolutely

Doctor Dirt said:

He sure beats the crap out of listening to Charlie Watts play the exact same thing for 45 years on just about every song. Now theres a group I can visualize alot of drummers in and they could have used a musical focal point because no one in in that group has outstanding talent on their instruments. Saw them 3 or 4 times since the early 60s and without Jagger being a good front man there'd be no reason to stay and listen to these guys play Chuck Berry tunes about as bad as anyone I ever heard. Thank god for take 2 and on in a studio, live their weak at best. Am I ranting? damn I am! Lunch time. Doc

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It is amazing that the stones are still the greatest rock n roll band in the world, even tho I agree with ur rant
If we take the media out of the stones and beatles and let the listeners decide whom to choose, we would have witnessed something different.

hogdaddy said:

Lots of the Beatles songs had overdubbed instruments, vocals, including drums.

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And a lot of the instruments were recorded, then played backwards and placed into the songs. George Martin was a genius that was a big reason for their success. That being said, I loved Ringo's drums on Beatle songs and then even more so on some of his solo stuff.

He was also quite the ham on stage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oBZu_bJp9c&feature=fvwrel