DOUBLE STROKES
- Thread starter J5TRONG
- Start date
topgun2021
Gold Member
Lead with the weak hand, see if that helps.
You could also work the weak hand individually for a while to build up strength.
You could also work the weak hand individually for a while to build up strength.
thedrumninja
Senior Member
Like topgun 2021 said - do plenty of exercises leading with the left hand:
16ths - LLRR (accent the 2nd stroke), Triplets - RLL & LLR. Too many to list really so pick up a copy of Stick Control and work your way through that. That will do your hands the world of good.
And watch Jim Kilpatrick on a regular basis for inspiration...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RzQMT1lt1E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYT77qnPqcI
Good luck boss!!
16ths - LLRR (accent the 2nd stroke), Triplets - RLL & LLR. Too many to list really so pick up a copy of Stick Control and work your way through that. That will do your hands the world of good.
And watch Jim Kilpatrick on a regular basis for inspiration...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RzQMT1lt1E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYT77qnPqcI
Good luck boss!!
Monica McCoy
Senior Member
You are a very good instructor, Caspar. You remind me of my teacher how excited he gets explaining and demonstrating things. It really shows you love what you are doing. Please share more.
I'm going to LLR some triplets right now in your honor. Practice pad though. It's late.
I'm going to LLR some triplets right now in your honor. Practice pad though. It's late.
C
Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan
Guest
You are a very good instructor, Caspar. You remind me of my teacher how excited he gets explaining and demonstrating things. It really shows you love what you are doing. Please share more.
I'm going to LLR some triplets right now in your honor. Practice pad though. It's late.
Thank you SO much, Monica, that was a great compliment!!
I am working on some more videos, stay tuned
By the way, suggestions are welcome....
Casper
tonyp123
Junior Member
I addition to the other suggestions, I would recommend playing the double stroke roll with accents on the second stroke of each hand (lL rR), like the original NARD rudiment is written. It will help develop the finger control for the roll and produce a smoother-sounding roll too.
Bart Elliott
DW PRO DRUMMER
Here are two of my video lessons that you may find helpful:
The Endurance Method
The Rebound Game
Here's an article of mine that may help as well:
Building the Weaker Hand
The Endurance Method
The Rebound Game
Here's an article of mine that may help as well:
Building the Weaker Hand
C
Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan
Guest
The method of accenting the second stroke deals with a potential problem a student can have with his or her double stroke: that the second stroke is weak. And it is an awesome way to deal with that. Thanks for posting this.
J5's issue is imbalance between the hands, so I would say, to use this method, modify it, playing wWs wWs (w=weak, s=strong). Now, he isn't spending time on his dominant hand, but focusing, using your method, on his weaker hand.
Casper
C
Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan
Guest
Bill, thanks for posting the Endurance Method. You seem to be a great teacher, and a very warm and friendly guy (you remind me of that guy from the Daily Show, a compliment).
Anyway, I think a balanced left to right approach will develop anybody's hands, but the real issue here is IMbalance. So doing the endurance exercise will not correct that. A modified version would, to drill the weaker hand much more.
And as for the TruBounce practice pad commercial, I am sure they are great pads, but for me, I get more bounces on a Vic Firth pad than I do on the snare. Then again, I am using Dom's Pad Stick on the pad and regular sticks on the snare.
So much great practice gear to try out!
Finally, your acrticle is good. It is a great idea to brush teeth etc with the weaker hand.
Casper
Bart Elliott
DW PRO DRUMMER
Thank you. And the name is Bart ... Bart Elliott ... Bill Elliott is the famous race car driver.
I agree about practice pads; each one can be unique and have its own pros and cons. You never know until you try them out. I use my Vic Firth "Heavy Hitter" StockPad practice pad went I want a good "quite" workout. I too get more bounces from this pad than on a Snare drum, regardless of the head tension. This can be good or bad, depending on what you are working on and trying to achieve. If I want to work on a pad, but won't it to feel and respond like a real Snare drum, I use the Aquarian Tru-Bounce Practice Pad. Use what works for you and makes you a better player.
C
Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan
Guest
cathartic_j
Senior Member
EDIT: I was an idiot and wrote out the wrong stickings for the first exercise, and just realized it this morning. Go to my next post to get the correct version.
I used variations of the exercises attached below in heavy doses to gain improve my double strokes relatively quickly. A few notes:
-As with any exercise, start out at a very slow tempo, and only increase the tempo as far as you can maintain control. It's hard to derive any benefit from any exercise unless you have the discipline to do this.
-... and as with most exercises, alternate which hand leads, and reverse the sticking accordingly. These exercises are pretty good at working each equally, but you'll particularly benefit from playing the second with a left-hand lead. Since you stated that you're having particular problems with your non-dominant hand, you'll probably want to do more reps leading with that hand.
-For each of the exercises, alternate between playing very softly (ppp) and loudly with a full stroke (f or ff).
-Master the first exercise without accents at moderate tempos before attempting to add the accents.
-The second exercise will be at a much slower tempo than the first, in part because of how it's written. (If you want, you can think of the sixteenths as eighths, and the 32nd-notes as sixteenths, and you should be able to play both exercises at approximately the same tempo once you've learned them.)
-There are many variations of exercises similar to these, and feel free to create your own.
Hopefully this contributes; best of luck working towards improvement!
I used variations of the exercises attached below in heavy doses to gain improve my double strokes relatively quickly. A few notes:
-As with any exercise, start out at a very slow tempo, and only increase the tempo as far as you can maintain control. It's hard to derive any benefit from any exercise unless you have the discipline to do this.
-... and as with most exercises, alternate which hand leads, and reverse the sticking accordingly. These exercises are pretty good at working each equally, but you'll particularly benefit from playing the second with a left-hand lead. Since you stated that you're having particular problems with your non-dominant hand, you'll probably want to do more reps leading with that hand.
-For each of the exercises, alternate between playing very softly (ppp) and loudly with a full stroke (f or ff).
-Master the first exercise without accents at moderate tempos before attempting to add the accents.
-The second exercise will be at a much slower tempo than the first, in part because of how it's written. (If you want, you can think of the sixteenths as eighths, and the 32nd-notes as sixteenths, and you should be able to play both exercises at approximately the same tempo once you've learned them.)
-There are many variations of exercises similar to these, and feel free to create your own.
Hopefully this contributes; best of luck working towards improvement!
Last edited:
There is a 3 step process to developing the double stroke roll. It has never been mentioned here. Find a good teacher who knows the process. I worked with a famous teacher who taught it to me. Maybe Tommy Igoes dvd's talk about it. My teacher came from Henry Adler's studio which I believe is where Tommy's famous dad also studied.
cathartic_j
Senior Member
Okay, here's the correct version of the first two files I posted yesterday... (sorry for any confusion!).
Also, I'm sure this is talked about quite a bit in the videos that were posted, but you want to make sure that you're playing to distinct strokes with each hand; you should be able to see and feel your wrist move. That doesn't mean that you can't use the natural rebound from the first stroke, but if that's all you're using, then slow down!
Also, I'm sure this is talked about quite a bit in the videos that were posted, but you want to make sure that you're playing to distinct strokes with each hand; you should be able to see and feel your wrist move. That doesn't mean that you can't use the natural rebound from the first stroke, but if that's all you're using, then slow down!
Hi,
I've been playing for only 2yrs now, but there is one thing that helped me get those crisp double strokes really consistent. Albeit 16th notes at only 115-120 bpm but I'm staying here for a while until my control feels right.
It's the slow, exaggerated motion. What does it look like with you? With me a double stroke in slow, exaggerated motion is quite different from regular 3, 4 or 5 bounce roll. after each stroke, I actually snap the stick with my fingers where I let the stick go all the way up with the tip pointing towards the ceiling. As opposed to working on the roll I let gravity sort of do it's work and control the amount of bounces with my middle finger.
The distinction between those two (double stroke roll vs multiple bounce roll) and paying close attention to equal dynamics in both strokes in the double stroke automatically lead to having the double strokes really tight. This is the most boring method becuase now I worked up till 115-120 bpm while still sounding crisp, but for the longest time I stuck with 40-60 bpm because I wanted to feel that control before I moved on. Eventhough I was 'able' to play faster than that at that point.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
I've been playing for only 2yrs now, but there is one thing that helped me get those crisp double strokes really consistent. Albeit 16th notes at only 115-120 bpm but I'm staying here for a while until my control feels right.
It's the slow, exaggerated motion. What does it look like with you? With me a double stroke in slow, exaggerated motion is quite different from regular 3, 4 or 5 bounce roll. after each stroke, I actually snap the stick with my fingers where I let the stick go all the way up with the tip pointing towards the ceiling. As opposed to working on the roll I let gravity sort of do it's work and control the amount of bounces with my middle finger.
The distinction between those two (double stroke roll vs multiple bounce roll) and paying close attention to equal dynamics in both strokes in the double stroke automatically lead to having the double strokes really tight. This is the most boring method becuase now I worked up till 115-120 bpm while still sounding crisp, but for the longest time I stuck with 40-60 bpm because I wanted to feel that control before I moved on. Eventhough I was 'able' to play faster than that at that point.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Jackolobe
SD Evangelist
Awesome video Casper! You always look very relaxed when you play, which I am really trying to work on. Any suggestions to help in that respect?
C
Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan
Guest
Thank you, and....THANK you!! Yes, I definitely have suggestions in that department. What helped me enormously was learning the free stroke, and then later the Moeller technique. These two techniques are a solid foundation for drum technique mechanics. I have found that whatever technical issues I have, they are always reflected in how I play these techniques, and can therefore be corrected from there.
So, I suggest getting a really good teacher to explain these things to you. Dom Famularo's book It's Your Move, or JoJo's video is a great starting point, but you will learn it MUCH better from an actual person.
Let me know if you have more questions.
Casper
Jackolobe
SD Evangelist
Thanks Casper! I just recently picked up jojo's DVD (which is awesome), and have begun working on the freestroke. I will also look for Dom's book as well on this subject.
Other than alternating strokes, do have any practice tips for working on the free stroke? I haven't quite got it built into my muscle memory to allow the rebound to happen naturally, and any ideas are greatly appreciated. Thanks!
-Jack