Lou Reed & Metallica :(

My point is that you probably don't listen to much Metallica either. And Lou Reed's legacy was never as a master musician, but as a lyricist who portrayed aspects of life that most did not write about. So my question was, when was Metallica great playing and when did Lou reed actually have a great voice? If it's crap it's not because the project is crap. It's because music wise these guys have always been crap, END of STORY.

Oh come on Ken, Ride the Lighting is classic moment in music history.
Master of Puppets and And Justice For All are hugely influential albums.
 
My point is that you probably don't listen to much Metallica either. And Lou Reed's legacy was never as a master musician, but as a lyricist who portrayed aspects of life that most did not write about. So my question was, when was Metallica great playing and when did Lou reed actually have a great voice? If it's crap it's not because the project is crap. It's because music wise these guys have always been crap, END of STORY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcbAibPA2yY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfoDh1XL2wo

Listen to those two songs and tell me that this collaboration (and we can even say minus Lou's vocals) sounds anything like old Metallica. I don't even like Metallica and I pretty much hate metal, but I really think you are way off here.
 
Oh come on Ken, Ride the Lighting is classic moment in music history.
Master of Puppets and And Justice For All are hugely influential albums.

I was waiting for you to say something, but that was quick. People may like or dislike Metallica, and they are huge and influential, but as musicians they suck. The thing is that I can be the asshole now because I was the one who was open-minded. :)
 
I was waiting for you to say something, but that was quick. People may like or dislike Metallica, and they are huge and influential, but as musicians they suck. The thing is that I can be the asshole now because I was the one who was open-minded. :)

Isn't their lead guitarist classically trained and a student of one of those cheesy instrumental guitar virtuosos? Vai or Satch or one of them.?.?. Also, their original bassist was supposed to be a real shredder before he died too.

But what do I know... I think they suck too, haha.
 
Isn't their lead guitarist classically trained and a student of one of those cheesy instrumental guitar virtuosos? Vai or Satch or one of them.?.?. Also, their original bassist was supposed to be a real shredder before he died too.

But what do I know... I think they suck too, haha.

Yeah, I think he studied with Satriani. Satch thinks he's great, what do I know? I actually have a story about Kirk.

When I graduated college I moved out west and was taking some classes at SF State because I didn't have a BA in music and needed to take some classes to apply to grad school. I grew up listening to Led Zep and Deep Purple. I always thought Page was a hack though. Blackmore is a different story. I could imagine there was a guy who came of age back in '68 listening to Diz, Trane and Miles, and he came to realize that it was Led Zeppelin that was to be heralded as the next great thing. It was his eye opener. Metallica was mine. I had asked a girl back in 1984 who was going to be the next big thing and she told me Metallica. I didn't believe it.

Any way the year that I was taking classes in SF State so was Kirk Hammitt. on Friday afternoons I would be practicing, and being a big talker, this one guy would always get me out and start talking to me. He would ask me What do you think of Metallica? The first time I said vehemently, "that band sucks." And he laughed. At the second week I said I don't like that band much. But by the third week, I didn't say anything except "why do you always ask me that." He kept on asking me for a few more weeks until the ritual ran dry. So the last day of class, two 14 year olds come running up to me asking me where is Kirk Hammitt is. Guitar Player had just come out with an interview and Kirk talked about how he was taking classes at SF State. They showed me the article and I realized that guy got me out of the practice room and then waited for Kirk to come out of class and he asked me at that moment what I thought of Metallica. It was a big secret but I seemed to be the only one who didn't know. It did teach me a lesson though. I mean they were in the process of writing the Black Album. I do like Nothing Else Matters. He's a sweet heart of a guy, you know that.
 
when was Metallica great playing

Metallica was great in their heyday. I was a huge fan of theirs in the 80s. They made some seriously killer music. Their last great album was the black album. It was down hill after that. But I can still put on Puppets to this day and think they were geniuses. They were pioneers not only in the thrash genre but metal in general.

Lars is not the best metal drummer by any stretch of the imagination but he did some great stuff on those records.
 
If it's crap it's not because the project is crap. It's because music wise these guys have always been crap, END of STORY.
Quite possibly Ken, & I do get your point. The concept may have merit. I know very little about the work of either artist/artists, so I'm coming at this from either an unbiased or ignorant POV. Again, maybe a bit of both. Unfortunately, if there is merit in the concept, it's completely masked by the appalling lack of ability to play as a cohesive unit. All I see is monotone pitchy vocal with occasional lyrical interest, backed up by posturing nonsense. If there is a message, it ain't getting through.

I get the wider concept of thrusting unlikely partnerships into a creative environment & seeing what comes out. That, in itself, I find very exciting indeed. Take these recently released examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79G18CjiRWw&feature=related There's even a Metal element to the composition.

& this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evOZJPmSk-k&feature=related
 
You go, Ken! I agree. Lou and Metallica are both below the bar technically, but a lot of people enjoy what they have to say musically and how they say it. Attitood and vision. Same reason why Bob Dylan, The Sex Pistols and Nirvana were so popular.

It's like movies with plot holes - you're supposed to ignore the details in execution. Having said that, the collaboration isn't for me, but far from the worst thing I've heard.
 
It's like movies with plot holes - you're supposed to ignore the details in execution.
Yes Pol, I get that approach, & I always search out the positive bits, but this performance is just one big hole! It's impossible to ignore the details, the bad bit's, because the whole thing is a hole.

Pol, you're a musical paragon as far as I'm concerned, & Ken knows his stuff too, so I guess I'm missing something outside of the fact that sometimes it's a good idea to mix it up & see what comes out.


but far from the worst thing I've heard.
If I didn't know better, I'd say you've been listening to some pretty awful stuff. I genuinely haven't heard a pub band as bad as this in decades! I'll throw one thing into the mix though, I'd take this over some benign bimbo bouncing uber manufactured music hypermarket garb' any day of the week.
 
Watched it on Jools last night. Couldn't believe it. Did someone forget to switch Lou Reed's monitors on? Worse than Mastodon the week before.
 
Yes Pol, I get that approach, & I always search out the positive bits, but this performance is just one big hole! It's impossible to ignore the details, the bad bit's, because the whole thing is a hole.

lol - yes, it's pretty hole-y :) Have to admit I struggle to understand Lou's diction in this. His blah blah monotone over a barely varying, somewhat wonky riff is hardly compelling for me.


... sometimes it's a good idea to mix it up & see what comes out.

That's what I'm thinking.


If I didn't know better, I'd say you've been listening to some pretty awful stuff. I genuinely haven't heard a pub band as bad as this in decades! I'll throw one thing into the mix though, I'd take this over some benign bimbo bouncing uber manufactured music hypermarket garb' any day of the week.

True! The car radio provides me with steady supply of dull music (wedged between the ads). I'd rather hear a blah blah monotone with a barely varying, somewhat wonky riff than cash register music performed by some bimbo / himbo. But I understand people's disappointment, given some of their separate efforts in the past.

PS. Did you say I was a paramour? :)
 
Quite possibly Ken, & I do get your point. The concept may have merit. I know very little about the work of either artist/artists, so I'm coming at this from either an unbiased or ignorant POV. Again, maybe a bit of both. Unfortunately, if there is merit in the concept, it's completely masked by the appalling lack of ability to play as a cohesive unit. All I see is monotone pitchy vocal with occasional lyrical interest, backed up by posturing nonsense. If there is a message, it ain't getting through.

I get the wider concept of thrusting unlikely partnerships into a creative environment & seeing what comes out. That, in itself, I find very exciting indeed. Take these recently released examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79G18CjiRWw&feature=related There's even a Metal element to the composition.

& this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evOZJPmSk-k&feature=related

Let's go through Metallica albums one by one and see who actually sings more off tone notes, James or Lou. In all fairness through, and to not seem like a total dick, there is an element of theater in the singing of each that fans enjoy.

Lou's done this kind of stuff before. He did a concept album/musical play with John Cale back about ten years that's sounds a lot like this. Yes, Pol, what it lacks in substance, it certainly makes up for in guys trying to look really really cool doing it. But overall it is something different and maybe the frivolous novelty is just what does it for me in this case.

But when we're going to start putting Anthony Jackson and Simon Phillips up against Lars and Bob hey you know what can you say. This is the reality of playing music professionally, and to me there is quite a bit of tragedy in the fact that most people if asked would see the latter as somehow better than the former. There is still an art to just making great music, (or writing a good theater piece.) and most of these hacks in the public eye just ain't doing it. And before people get my tail. I have probably listened to more Lou reed, Iggy Pop, Metallica, Bon Jovi or Poison than most people who listened to that music have listened to the music that I really enjoy.


But people may not know that Lars actually auditioned for Dream Theater. He lay down his money beat with fierce abandon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjlKPTfCpPc
 
Let's go through Metallica albums one by one and see who actually sings more off tone notes, James or Lou. In all fairness through, and to not seem like a total dick, there is an element of theater in the singing of each that fans enjoy.

Lou's done this kind of stuff before. He did a concept album/musical play with John Cale back about ten years that's sounds a lot like this. Yes, Pol, what it lacks in substance, it certainly makes up for in guys trying to look really really cool doing it. But overall it is something different and maybe the frivolous novelty is just what does it for me in this case.

But when we're going to start putting Anthony Jackson and Simon Phillips up against Lars and Bob hey you know what can you say. This is the reality of playing music professionally, and to me there is quite a bit of tragedy in the fact that most people if asked would see the latter as somehow better than the former. There is still an art to just making great music, (or writing a good theater piece.) and most of these hacks in the public eye just ain't doing it. And before people get my tail. I have probably listened to more Lou reed, Iggy Pop, Metallica, Bon Jovi or Poison than most people who listened to that music have listened to the music that I really enjoy.


But people may not know that Lars actually auditioned for Dream Theater. He lay down his money beat with fierce abandon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjlKPTfCpPc

I love that video!

2020202020202020202020202020
 
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But when we're going to start putting Anthony Jackson and Simon Phillips up against Lars and Bob hey you know what can you say. This is the reality of playing music professionally, and to me there is quite a bit of tragedy in the fact that most people if asked would see the latter as somehow better than the former. There is still an art to just making great music, (or writing a good theater piece.) and most of these hacks in the public eye just ain't doing it. And before people get my tail. I have probably listened to more Lou reed, Iggy Pop, Metallica, Bon Jovi or Poison than most people who listened to that music have listened to the music that I really enjoy.

Thumbs up man! I totally agree with this...

If you gonna make music, no matter what mixed styles and artists, it should be played professionally, it won't be to everybody's liking, but at least it would be well played! Not like last night performance...
 
The thing is, the more I watch these videos the more inclined I am to go out and buy this album. It's absolutely terrible but in a very funny way. One poster mentioned that Lou Reed may have been using Metallica as 'fall guys' and heaven knows Metallica look very serious but something is telling me Reed isn't being serious.

After all, he has form with this. I have a lot of time for Lou Reed. Outside of the Velvet Underground he has a huge body of interesting, albeit inconsistent work and he can clearly write some ground-breaking lyrics ('Walk on the Wild Side, anybody?) then he goes out and does 'Metal Machine Music' as a joke. That joke has informed a lot of my personal aesthetic and it's still as funny today as it was in the late 70's when he made it.

Maybe I just have a very obtuse sense of humour? That's entirely possible but I think Lou Reed is one of the funniest musicians on Earth.
 
I like bouncing bimbos. Very much.
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Ok Abe, you got me there, but that's a different thread ;)

But when we're going to start putting Anthony Jackson and Simon Phillips up against Lars and Bob hey you know what can you say.
Yes Ken, completely agree, but the reason I put up that link, was not to compare musicianship (frankly, opposite ends of the spectrum), it was as an example of unlikely partnerships turning out wonderful stuff.

& Duncan, I'm betting the album just might be interesting, as it neatly gets around the horrendous performance distraction. Based on Metallica's previous record of taking months to stitch together micro snippets of drum tracking to get a decent groove, I bet it took some time too ;)
 
I don't really have a problem with this performance. It's not my thing, but it doesn't offend me. But then, I liked St. Anger, too.
 
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