Having trouble with 8" and 16" tom tuning

Kopi

Member
I have a PDP x7 maple kit with Remo Emperor heads all around 8/10/12/14/16 (about 6 months old). I'm very satisfied with where I can get my 10/12/14 toms, I think they sound great. I've read many (and I mean many) guides online as far as tuning, many different methods, watched all the Gatzen videos my brain could handle, but I can't get either of my 8 or 16 inch drums to sound right.

I have a hard time describing the sound, but the 8" lacks any tone what so ever. I tried tuning it relatively low to match with my 8 to 10 to 12 rack toms, and thats the only spot it sounds mildly good but even at that it sounds flat, and kinda has an unpleasant "bung" sound to it.

My 16" is just the opposite...I can't tune it high enough without it sounding awful. Right now it sits way off the deep end and sounds hollow.

I'd love to post up some audio clips but the best I could do would be from my SLR digital camera, I've often been told don't even bother.

The kit in question..
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13550_1132117235514_1604775184_30348641_5477142_n.jpg
 
Hi,

You should play with different type of heads. I would try an ambassador on the 8" tom it will open it(And don't forget the reso head).

For the 16", you should put a more muffled head if you want less overtones.(Evans EC2 will be a good start) Or try dampening the Emperor with moongel.

Have a nice day
 
The approach I like is to not have a sound in my head that I'm trying to force the drums to match. Just experiment with your tuning so that each drum is making an interesting musical sound (so probably not like a bunch of loose papers or like you're hitting a desk--although if you find those sounds interesting and musical, go for it), and then once you find that, stick with it.

At that, you'll probably find a range of sounds from each drum that are interesting musical sounds, and you might prefer some to others, and of course, different heads will result in different sounds. It's usually not easy to quickly and cheaply experiment a lot with different heads though--most music stores aren't going to say, "Yeah, sure, you can try 15 different heads on that tom--let me stack 'em up for you". It takes time and money to experiment with it.

There's a quote I like a lot from Brian Eno that I think fits situations like this: "The only error is your inability to adjust your preconceptions to reality".

Nice looking kit, by the way. I dig that color.
 
always start tunning the drums that give more trouble and then move to the other drums , because somtimes you tune your 14" tom and then you want your 16" to match but your 16" won't go as low or as high as you want it to be , but if you tune your 16" fisrt then you can tune your 14" to match your 16"
 
I have an X7 kit at my church and I can tune the 8" to its relative sweet spot, but it just doesn't sound that great to me in the first place, so I took it off and shelved it. I'm running a Pinstripe on the 16" (actually on all the toms) and I'm having no problems with getting the toms tuned to a good, throaty sound. I don't think that 16" is going to stand for a very high tuning, though... it's probably going to sound better tuned low, just the nature of this kit.
 
I have an X7 kit at my church and I can tune the 8" to its relative sweet spot, but it just doesn't sound that great to me in the first place, so I took it off and shelved it. I'm running a Pinstripe on the 16" (actually on all the toms) and I'm having no problems with getting the toms tuned to a good, throaty sound. I don't think that 16" is going to stand for a very high tuning, though... it's probably going to sound better tuned low, just the nature of this kit.

I agree - I love a deep throaty sound, which is why I think I have a hard time fitting my 8" into the setup, I may have everything tuned just a little too low (which might make the 16" a little too deep/open)

always start tunning the drums that give more trouble and then move to the other drums , because somtimes you tune your 14" tom and then you want your 16" to match but your 16" won't go as low or as high as you want it to be , but if you tune your 16" fisrt then you can tune your 14" to match your 16"

This is also a good idea I will play around with :) thanks!

Hi,

You should play with different type of heads. I would try an ambassador on the 8" tom it will open it(And don't forget the reso head).

For the 16", you should put a more muffled head if you want less overtones.(Evans EC2 will be a good start) Or try dampening the Emperor with moongel.

Have a nice day

The approach I like is to not have a sound in my head that I'm trying to force the drums to match. Just experiment with your tuning so that each drum is making an interesting musical sound (so probably not like a bunch of loose papers or like you're hitting a desk--although if you find those sounds interesting and musical, go for it), and then once you find that, stick with it.

At that, you'll probably find a range of sounds from each drum that are interesting musical sounds, and you might prefer some to others, and of course, different heads will result in different sounds. It's usually not easy to quickly and cheaply experiment a lot with different heads though--most music stores aren't going to say, "Yeah, sure, you can try 15 different heads on that tom--let me stack 'em up for you". It takes time and money to experiment with it.

There's a quote I like a lot from Brian Eno that I think fits situations like this: "The only error is your inability to adjust your preconceptions to reality".

Nice looking kit, by the way. I dig that color.

Thanks, the orange looks really nice in decent lighting. I questioned trying an ambassador on the 8" to try to open it up, thought the 2-ply might be a little restrictive for a drum its size..I think i may have to pick one up.
 
Before new heads I'd double check all of the bearing edges top and bottom on all of your drums. On my Pacific kit the edges were inconsistent enough to warrant having them all recut. Before that I had some difficulty on all the drums but my 12" was nearly untunable. If any of the edges are a little bit wonky it's going to cause a fair amount of tuning problems.

Once you get past that I think you're on the right track by considering different heads for different tom sizes.

In my own experiences with 8" toms I've found they don't sound good with two-ply heads. I'd go for an Ambassador, even a Diplomat if you didn't think you'd put a stick right through it in the first week.

I'd even go so far, even though you said you're happy with the sound of your 10" to try an Ambassador there too. I think 10's really open up with thinner one-ply heads too.

Working down to the 16" I think I'd use a Pinstripe batter on that drum. That should help you get a more stable-sounding pitch yet not lose the low range a drum that size is capable of.

Last but not least (and while I'm already spending your money on new drum heads) I think it is important to replace all of the bottom heads if you're still running the stock Pacific resonants. The bottom heads on my Pacific kit were absolute junk, even though I didn't realize how much they were throwing off the sound until I changed them.
 
Before new heads I'd double check all of the bearing edges top and bottom on all of your drums. On my Pacific kit the edges were inconsistent enough to warrant having them all recut. Before that I had some difficulty on all the drums but my 12" was nearly untunable. If any of the edges are a little bit wonky it's going to cause a fair amount of tuning problems.

Once you get past that I think you're on the right track by considering different heads for different tom sizes.

In my own experiences with 8" toms I've found they don't sound good with two-ply heads. I'd go for an Ambassador, even a Diplomat if you didn't think you'd put a stick right through it in the first week.

I'd even go so far, even though you said you're happy with the sound of your 10" to try an Ambassador there too. I think 10's really open up with thinner one-ply heads too.

Working down to the 16" I think I'd use a Pinstripe batter on that drum. That should help you get a more stable-sounding pitch yet not lose the low range a drum that size is capable of.

Last but not least (and while I'm already spending your money on new drum heads) I think it is important to replace all of the bottom heads if you're still running the stock Pacific resonants. The bottom heads on my Pacific kit were absolute junk, even though I didn't realize how much they were throwing off the sound until I changed them.

Bearing edges eh, I hadn't thought about looking into this. Do these have to be shipped somewhere to have the edge redone? Is this an expensive process?

I've sort of made up a plan in my head..

- Ambassadors for all resos
- 8" Ambassador for batter
- 16" play with for a bit..might start here and tune my kit starting there. If not, will consider a pinstripe for the extra muffling.

Thanks for your recommendations so far, will hopefully be able to grab all these heads by the end of the week
 
If the bearing edges are OK, you're just probably having tuning problems. It really doesn't matter much if you're using single or double ply heads as your batter heads, but I definitely would change your resonant heads to a 10 mil something. Either a Remo Ambassador or an Evans G1 clear. I have three different 8" rack toms and two of them have Evans G2 clear batters and the other has an Evans G1 coated. for it's batter head. I always start tuning with my largest floor tom first and make my way around to the 8. I like to be able to get the low end sound from my floor toms that I like to hear. All the rack toms just fall into place. If you don't want the pitch bending sound, get your heads in tune with themselves. If you want the most resonance and sustain from your drums, keep the batters and reso heads very close in pitch to one another per drum.

Dennis
 
You don't mention reso heads. Are they stock? If so, ditch them for some clear Ambassadors or G1s.

A single-ply on the 8" might be just what you need.

You'll have to define "awful" on the 16" to get any useful help.

The most important thing is to let the drums tell you where they want to be tuned, by running them from finger-tight up through their range very gradually to find the sweet spot for each. If you put each tom in its sweet spot, they may not end up where you'd like them to be, but they'll be where they sound best both individually and overall.
 
Smaller drums by their nature will sustain less. Emperors on anything smaller than 10" can be problematic.

You said emperors all around. Did that mean seso heads too? If so those probably need to go in favor of a single ply head

Clear heads can be more prone to overtones than coated heads as the coating acts as a very mild muffling. As such they are a bit fussier when it comes to tuning. It is certainly not impossible though. I use ambassador weight heads top and bottom. It takes a bit more to get them right but it is so worth it.
 
Bearing edges eh, I hadn't thought about looking into this. Do these have to be shipped somewhere to have the edge redone? Is this an expensive process?

I've sort of made up a plan in my head..

- Ambassadors for all resos
- 8" Ambassador for batter
- 16" play with for a bit..might start here and tune my kit starting there. If not, will consider a pinstripe for the extra muffling.

Thanks for your recommendations so far, will hopefully be able to grab all these heads by the end of the week

Wait you've put emperor on all the reso side of your toms? It's normal to have problem with tuning your 8" and your 16":

The 8" is chocked by the 2 ply on the reso, there is not enough movement of air for letting resonate the emperor on the reso side. On 8" and 10" I prefer 1 ply head for let it breathe.

The 16" resonate too much because it's a floor tom and it have a lot more movement of air so the 2 ply resonate much more than if it was a 1 ply in a result of a long resonance warm sound.

Your plan is good you'll see an amelioration, take time to tune.
 
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Sorry for the confusion, my resos are the stock PDP single ply heads, not emperors. Emperors are batter only.

I look forward to having a day with just my drumkit and I :)

I'm going to try to re-tune the 16" first before getting a new head for it. I've almost always done the reso first...finger tight, maybe a couple turns until I get a sound I think is relatively close to what I want the batter to sound like, then repeat on the batter side, is that a good way of going about this? Or do you tune the batter first, then match the reso to that?
 
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Sorry for the confusion, my resos are the stock PDP single ply heads, not emperors. Emperors are batter only.

I look forward to having a day with just my drumkit and I :)

I'm going to try to re-tune the 16" first before getting a new head for it. I've almost always done the reso first...finger tight, maybe a couple turns until I get a sound I think is relatively close to what I want the batter to sound like, then repeat on the batter side, is that a good way of going about this? Or do you tune the batter first, then match the reso to that?

Definitely ditch the resos, could solve half your problems right there.

The best way to find the drum's sweet spot is to work on both heads at once. Put both down to finger-tight. Add 1/4 turn to every tension rod, top and bottom, using two keys on opposite rods and a star pattern. Keep adding 1/4 turn all around until you get a real tone out of the drum. At this point match both heads in pitch and make the lug-to-lug tuning decent.

You have now found the lowest note this tom will play with these heads.

Now keep adding no more than 1/4 turn to every tension rod, keeping both heads the same pitch and the lug-to-lug tuning good. Strike the batter in the center after every round of tension.

At some point you'll reach a place where the drum really opens up, sounds louder and punchier, and has the most sustain. That's the sweet spot. When you go above it, the drum begins to choke.

Now if you want to fool around with raising the reso to cut sustain, do so.

If you do this with all your toms they'll all be equally loud and resonant, and will sound well-matched.

8" toms are a special case. Definitely try a single-ply batter on it. If you still don't get enough sustain to equal the other drums, try using a clear Evans G-plus for a reso. Being thicker it will sustain more.
 
8' inch toms can be persnickety,I have owned a few,and tuned a few for people,some of them can just be a pain to tweak.The easiest ones I have ever tuned have been pearl exports,the hardest a 70's ludwig,I have an eames 8 " that is really sensitive,if you get it a smidge off at one lug it sounds sour as heck.
 
Definitely ditch the resos, could solve half your problems right there.

The best way to find the drum's sweet spot is to work on both heads at once. Put both down to finger-tight. Add 1/4 turn to every tension rod, top and bottom, using two keys on opposite rods and a star pattern. Keep adding 1/4 turn all around until you get a real tone out of the drum. At this point match both heads in pitch and make the lug-to-lug tuning decent.

You have now found the lowest note this tom will play with these heads.

Now keep adding no more than 1/4 turn to every tension rod, keeping both heads the same pitch and the lug-to-lug tuning good. Strike the batter in the center after every round of tension.

At some point you'll reach a place where the drum really opens up, sounds louder and punchier, and has the most sustain. That's the sweet spot. When you go above it, the drum begins to choke.

Now if you want to fool around with raising the reso to cut sustain, do so.

If you do this with all your toms they'll all be equally loud and resonant, and will sound well-matched.

8" toms are a special case. Definitely try a single-ply batter on it. If you still don't get enough sustain to equal the other drums, try using a clear Evans G-plus for a reso. Being thicker it will sustain more.

Thanks for the great advice...I've always tried tuning one head, then the other. Seems like it would make a lot of sense to sit down and do them both starting from fingertight. I will try this for sure!

8' inch toms can be persnickety,I have owned a few,and tuned a few for people,some of them can just be a pain to tweak.The easiest ones I have ever tuned have been pearl exports,the hardest a 70's ludwig,I have an eames 8 " that is really sensitive,if you get it a smidge off at one lug it sounds sour as heck.

I'm not sure I've ever heard the word persnickety before, but I can imagine its meaning. Were you using ambs/other single ply heads on the 8"?
 
I'm using 8, 10, 13 and 16" toms (sort of Danny Carey-like), and I don't really have any trouble with the tuning. I expect the little 8 to be at or near the high end of the tonal spectrum so I tune it somewhere in the "D" range. Similarly, the 16" should sit near the low end, but I'm also realistic enough about that size of drum to know that it will never sound as deep as a bass drum.

Tuning can also be deceptive. What seems too tight will actually sound quite nice in context with the rest of the kit (and the music, if applicable). "Tight as a drum" isn't just empty slang, y'know! Sometimes I think my 16" floor sounds like "BINNNGG..." until I hit it at the same time as my snare and I get that nice powerful THUMP.

I just got an idea.....I got a GOOD idea.
 
I

I just got an idea.....I got a GOOD idea.

Care to share?

I messed around with my 8" before band practice last night. I must say that tuning the reso and batter at the same time starting with fingertight, increasing by about 1/4 turns really made a nice sound. It still sounds a little "bungy" for my liking so I will still do ambassadors on both reso/batter for it, I think it will help a lot.

Thanks for your help guys :D
 
I was using single ply clear ambassador batter and a clear dip reso,I then tried a terry bozzio amb weight clear as a batter,the edges on the eames are a modern 45 with a very slight roundover to the outside and the collar on the bozzio seated and tuned very quickly,those heads seem to really work well with sharp/modern bearing edges.
 
DRUMTECHDAD...Your advice is right on the money!!! I use the G plus on my 8, 10 and 12 toms with awesome results. Better resonance than the standard G1"s
 
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