Help me with basement remodeling. Soundproof drum/band room.

Boom

Boom

Silver Member
Hey everyone! I'm in the process of a MASSIVE basement remodel of my home. Walls, floor, duct work, structural stuff, waterproofing (internal french drain) etc...

Any suggestions for those that have done the basement thing, and specifically, those that have soundproofed a drum/band room. I know about mass and the green glue. For those that don't, one way is to hang two pieces of drywall, and you put green glue in between those sheets. The green glue converts sound waves into heat and dissipates the sound after about 60 days (from the glue hardening or whatever).

But there are those that say a room within a room is the way to go. Do I have to go that way? Will good sound barrier insulation with 2 thick sheets and green glue be enough to remove most of the sound?

It doesn't have to be completely silent. I don't want neighbors complaining anymore and I will have guitar amps blaring (metal and other aggressive music). But ideally I want to make it so I can play my drums late at night with family 2 floors above sleeping. Is that possible? Any cost effective suggestions anyone has?

Z channel or resilient channel necessary? I think I lose some head space with that and I don't really want to. Remember this is a basement, and half of the room is under ground.

thanks in advance for any suggestions!
 
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It doesn't have to be completely silent.
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And ideally I want to make it so I can play my drums late at night with family 2 floors above sleeping. Is that possible?
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So it does have to be completely silent. ;] I think you'll need a full blown room-within-a-room to get there.

For those that don't, one way is to hang two pieces of drywall, with different masses. Like one with 1/2" and the other 5/8". That difference is mass is supposed to mess up sound waves. And then you put green glue in between those sheets. The green glue converts sound waves into heat and dissipates the sound after about 60 days (from the glue hardening or whatever).
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Sorry, that's all a bunch of nonsense. First, you need mass to isolate sound. Using different thicknesses of drywall does nothing. You're gluing them together; they're going to vibrate and resonate in unison no matter what. The only real goal is to have as much mass as possible. Secondly, all energy ends up as heat eventually. Simply friction wins in the end, and it doesn't matter what type of glue you use.
 
Soupy said:
So it does have to be completely silent. ;] I think you'll need a full blown room-within-a-room to get there.



Sorry, that's all a bunch of nonsense. First, you need mass to isolate sound. Using different thicknesses of drywall does nothing. You're gluing them together; they're going to vibrate and resonate in unison no matter what. The only real goal is to have as much mass as possible. Secondly, all energy ends up as heat eventually. Simply friction wins in the end, and it doesn't matter what type of glue you use.
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Soupy! Thanks for your response. Are you familiar with green glue? It isn't normal glue. Have you done much soundproofing (that question isn't to discount what you said, its an honest question)? Because the 2nd paragraph goes against tons of different sources I've used for research. I've been going over this stuff for like 6 months. Insane amount, and this is a constant theme. But I have my reservations, and that's why I'm asking. So I'm not trying to discount what you are saying. Can you tell me of any things you've done and found that were useful?

No doubt, as you said, mass wins unless there is a way to isolate (such as room inside a room). Just wondering if anyone has suggestions that they thought really worked, or was really cost effective. Thanks, Soupy.
 
Boom said:
Soupy! Thanks for your response. Are you familiar with green glue? It isn't normal glue. Have you done much soundproofing? Because the 2nd paragraph goes against tons of different sources I've used for research. I've been going over this stuff for like 6 months. Insane amount, and this is a constant theme. But I have my reservations, and that's why I'm asking. So I'm not trying to discount what you are saying. Can you tell me of any things you've done and found that were useful?

No doubt, as you said, mass wins unless there is a way to isolate (such as room inside a room). Just wondering if anyone has suggestions that they thought really worked, or was really cost effective. Thanks, Soupy.
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Boom, I have used the Green Glue in my drum room build. It worked well. But I truly was just looking for sound reduction...not complete isolation. I don't play late at night or have the band in my garage. The part that is false is the different thickness of drywall you are talking about. You want mass. I used two layers of 5/8" drywall over the existing drywall in my garage with Green Glue in between each layer. I achieved good sound reduction doing this. So much that I can play in the garage and my wife can watch TV 20' away and not be bothered.

What you are asking for needs more consideration. If you want to have a full band in the room and play late at night you will probably need the room within a room build.

Brundlefly has one of the most detailed threads on here I have ever seen on room within a room construction. I'll have to see if I can find the link to his thread.

Here's the link to the thread. Lots of great info here.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58532&page=2
 
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Knucklebuster, thanks for your response. After thinking about what soupy said about different masses, and now yours, yeah, that doesn't make sense. It might if they were different densities I think. But the two boards are equally dense, just different thicknesses so it can't make a difference.

As for how important it is to be able to play my drums late at night, I can get around it. The band and amps playing during the day and not firing up the neighbors from my basement is the real issue.

thanks for the link!
 
If you are in the same house as others.. Room inside a room is the way to go..

The only two ways to reduce or stop sound is to block it with mass and density. Or create a sound trap that dissipates sound waves.. Really only building a room inside a room is going to do what you want..
 
I also have green glue between two layer of 5/8ths type X drywall, it's the denser fire rated stuff. The green glue makes the laminate more lossy if it's suspended but doesn't do that much more than just two layers if it's hard attached to the structure.

I don't know what the existing walls of your basement are like but that is going to be the easy part. The hard part will be the ceiling. If you have enough height (which isn't very common in a basement, you can build a free standing structure with it's own ceiling. More likely is that you're going to have to deal with the existing floor above. And probably a bunch of pipes and ducts. You really need someone to look at the floor structure and see how much weight it can support since you're going to be trying to have mass up there. The simplest solution is iso clips with hat channel holding up a sandwich of drywall and green glue. If you can tolerate the weight, you can glue or otherwise attach drywall up against the existing floor to increase the mass of that layer. Then insulation and you're new ceiling.

The biggest thing with drums is the bass of the kick drum. Most sound reduction stuff is aimed at higher frequencies. To prevent the transmission of the bass, you need a fair amount of compliance to your isolation. Meaning things like wimpy metal framing on 24" centers. Look at every point where the interior walls/ceiling is going to be attached to the existing structure and see if there is a way to isolate it with a fairly loose connection.

Get and read Rod Gervais' book on home studio construction and avoid the myths. It's really not complicated but the devil is in the details. One upper corner of your walls and ceiling hard fastened to the house will defeat 20 gallons of green glue.
 
Fill all wall and ceiling cavities with rock wool sound batts
 
Chris and Aelion, thanks for your input.

I got some bad news today. I have some structural issues apparently. The good thing about it, after it is fixed, is that I'll have a ceiling that will be able to support quite a lot of weight. Yes, I don't have a ton of headroom down there. I think that was my fear about doing the room inside a room. Not to mention ventilation. I play in a poorly ventilated playing space now and man, that place gets humid quickly from my sweating (playing pretty physically).

I'll look into that book, Aelion. I'm going to have some more time on my hands to decide before I can go forward since I now I have to deal with structural issues.

Ps. Oldrockdrummer, yes, I spoke to a contractor today that mentioned that form of insulation. His company uses, instead of dryway, this really thick prefabricated walls designed for basements. And by thick, I mean like 4 inches. He said with that insulation you mention and those prefab'd walls, I should be ok. Thanks for your suggestion.
 
Aeolian said:
I also have green glue between two layer of 5/8ths type X drywall, it's the denser fire rated stuff. The green glue makes the laminate more lossy if it's suspended but doesn't do that much more than just two layers if it's hard attached to the structure.

I don't know what the existing walls of your basement are like but that is going to be the easy part. The hard part will be the ceiling. If you have enough height (which isn't very common in a basement, you can build a free standing structure with it's own ceiling. More likely is that you're going to have to deal with the existing floor above. And probably a bunch of pipes and ducts. You really need someone to look at the floor structure and see how much weight it can support since you're going to be trying to have mass up there. The simplest solution is iso clips with hat channel holding up a sandwich of drywall and green glue. If you can tolerate the weight, you can glue or otherwise attach drywall up against the existing floor to increase the mass of that layer. Then insulation and you're new ceiling.

The biggest thing with drums is the bass of the kick drum. Most sound reduction stuff is aimed at higher frequencies. To prevent the transmission of the bass, you need a fair amount of compliance to your isolation. Meaning things like wimpy metal framing on 24" centers. Look at every point where the interior walls/ceiling is going to be attached to the existing structure and see if there is a way to isolate it with a fairly loose connection.

Get and read Rod Gervais' book on home studio construction and avoid the myths. It's really not complicated but the devil is in the details. One upper corner of your walls and ceiling hard fastened to the house will defeat 20 gallons of green glue.
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Aeolian,

As always...spot on. I too used the fire rated drywall. I just didn't see the need for hat channel or clips for my purpose. I did the walls and ceiling in double layers. I'm happy with the result as is my wife...she is the one that matters results wise!
 
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