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  #1  
Old 06-13-2017, 03:00 AM
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Default Crashing on beat 1

Probably one of the most common things in drumming. After every fill, you can almost expect a crash on beat one. And yea, it sounds good.

For about the last year now I have been omitting some of my "beat 1 crashes" and instead, just go right into the beat without the crash. It really works well, better than using the crash, in many places I'm finding.

So many things in drumming are seemingly backwards. Omitting stuff sounds better sometimes. Less is more.

I remember reading somewhere that in the 20's 30's and 40's, it was considered stepping on a singers space, crashing beat on beat 1. I'm sure it was still done but you do hear a lot of crashes on beat 4 on the early records.
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Old 06-13-2017, 03:36 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I remember reading somewhere that in the 20's 30's and 40's, it was considered stepping on a singers space, crashing beat on beat 1. I'm sure it was still done but you do hear a lot of crashes on beat 4 on the early records.
true...maybe more swing then?

Good observations. Tomorrow night at band practice I will consciously omit some Beat 1 crashing.
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Old 06-13-2017, 03:42 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Yeah, it's often great to leave crashes out. It can really help intensify the groove. It's all about tension and release. You reminded me of a part of a steely dan song that has always stuck in my mind.

Bernard Purdie plays a few fills and crashes in 'Home at Last' and just as he's coming out of that section he plays a strong triplet fill that builds in volume to go back to the main part of the song, I was expecting a crash aaaand...nope. No crash. He finishes it by just going back to the hi-hat and kick. The kick he plays on that beat 1 after the triplet is strong and punchy, far more intense than a crash would have been.

Perfect decision by Purdie. It's SO powerful and keeps it tidier and tighter. It really made me think that way in my own playing.

The triplet is at 3:16.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGMjGaiIxtY&t=3m3s
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Old 06-13-2017, 03:49 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
For about the last year now I have been omitting some of my "beat 1 crashes" and instead, just go right into the beat without the crash. It really works well, better than using the crash, in many places I'm finding.
Agreed, I've been doing that for a while where I think the smooth transition works better than defining the next section with a crash. Not a steady diet, but just for occasional variety towards the understated. Along those lines, I'll sometimes avoid a fill altogether, and just slip smoothly and deliberately into the next section.

Less is truly more.
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  #5  
Old 06-13-2017, 04:11 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Sometimes I just omit playing altogether. No joke.

I recall mixing a big band at Disneyland once and the drummer was stuck in an accident but I had the band ready. So they started playing without the drummer, just the bass player pumping the band forward. It was so cool. Everyone danced and didn't even notice there was no drummer.

When the drummer did show up, for the rest of the night we were all, "what's that noise?"

;)
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Old 06-13-2017, 04:15 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

I do a bit of that in both my current bands - in my covers band where it helps the groove, and the originals band where I thought a fill to a no-crash would have helped the vibe. Great technique.
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Old 06-13-2017, 04:36 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Probably one of the most common things in drumming. After every fill, you can almost expect a crash on beat one. And yea, it sounds good.

For about the last year now I have been omitting some of my "beat 1 crashes" and instead, just go right into the beat without the crash. It really works well, better than using the crash, in many places I'm finding.

So many things in drumming are seemingly backwards. Omitting stuff sounds better sometimes. Less is more.

I remember reading somewhere that in the 20's 30's and 40's, it was considered stepping on a singers space, crashing beat on beat 1. I'm sure it was still done but you do hear a lot of crashes on beat 4 on the early records.


It really helps the singer by not crashing all the time on the one. Try crashing on the 4 of the next bar, see what the band does.



There are a few pop song without any crashes in the original studio recordings at all, can you name any?

Pink Cadillac- Natalie Cole is one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhHLifMnUxw




I don't crash at all in the whole song if I play 'Every breath you take'- The Police.
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  #8  
Old 06-13-2017, 04:43 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Crash on beat 2 Larry get scary!
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  #9  
Old 06-13-2017, 04:55 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Omitting the crash on 1 and crashing between 1 & 2 instead can create a really cool effect too.
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  #10  
Old 06-13-2017, 05:09 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by Merlin5 View Post
It's all about tension and release.
I look at it that way too. It's like a combination of the tension and releasing, except I'm not releasing all the way. Restraint is a good decision a lot of time.

Not playing what's expected...done right...is nice.

And Pete, crashing on beat 2! You're a maniac!
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  #11  
Old 06-13-2017, 05:18 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Sometimes I try to break up the monotony by crashing a little before or after the one. Guitar players love that.
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Old 06-13-2017, 05:50 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
There are a few pop song without any crashes in the original studio recordings at all, can you name any?
Papa Was A Rolling Stone - The Temptations
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  #13  
Old 06-13-2017, 05:59 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post


There are a few pop song without any crashes in the original studio recordings at all, can you name any?
One Headlight by The Wallflowers (Matt Chamberlain)
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  #14  
Old 06-13-2017, 06:11 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Yeah crashing on the & of 1 is really fun.
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  #15  
Old 06-13-2017, 07:02 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I look at it that way too. It's like a combination of the tension and releasing, except I'm not releasing all the way. Restraint is a good decision a lot of time.

Not playing what's expected...done right...is nice.

And Pete, crashing on beat 2! You're a maniac!
I'll take that as a Compliment, I always look at fills or rolls like a rubber ball bouncing and flummoxing down the stairs or kitchen pots and pans falling off a bench! Some of the best fills i've ever heard came out of a Kitchens.. Random! Ringo gets praise for understatement, What about Dear Charlie.. Reggae accents are Cool Too!
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  #16  
Old 06-13-2017, 07:14 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Fleetwood Mac - Don't Stop
Either no crash, or a crash on beat 2.
Towards the end of the song there are crashes on beats 2 and 4 of various bars, but never beat one of bar 1.
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  #17  
Old 06-13-2017, 07:33 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Crashes on 2 and 4 give a nice drive.

The second guitar solo on Comfortably Numb does this, and so does the first guitar solo (I think) in Sweet Home Alabama.
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  #18  
Old 06-13-2017, 08:56 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Garage drumming 101

You've played the obligatory fill down the toms and your RH is now a long way from the hats, where it needs to be for the next bar. A time honoured fudge is to hit a crash near the floor tom on the one and the wash covers the crappy recovery getting back to the hats.
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  #19  
Old 06-13-2017, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Garage drumming 101

You've played the obligatory fill down the toms and your RH is now a long way from the hats, where it needs to be for the next bar. A time honoured fudge is to hit a crash near the floor tom on the one and the wash covers the crappy recovery getting back to the hats.
:-) And that is why I now avoid crashing on the one.
The first time I really became aware of it was when I saw an excellent drummer reviewing a kit on a web video and it was more of a review of the hi hats snare drum and bass drum but with a tacked on "badum dum dum" around the toms followed by a "crash" and it sounded so much like what I would have played when I was learning. It was an eye opening moment and I've worked on the transition back to the hats to avoid this, in the process stopping myself hitting a sloshy hat on the one as that is a similiar sort of camouflage.
A habit from my youth is ending one bar and starting the next on the bass drum and crashing on , what I think is, the 2. Whatever it is I do I remember recording some tracks for a Metal/Hardcore band many years ago and the sound engineer mentioned that my drumming sounded weird when listening to the drum track in isolation but weirder still it all worked when the other tracks were recorded and added. I have songs like Don't Look Down from the first Go West album to thank for that quirk I think.
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  #20  
Old 06-13-2017, 11:11 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

It often doesn't occur to me to crash on 1. Plus I used to miss the damn cymbal a lot anyway, so even if I did remember I frequently didn't do it. I try to save my crashes for when they're really needed.
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  #21  
Old 06-13-2017, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Right up there with...

Hats on the verse and ride cymbal on the chorus....

;)

Last edited by Mongrel; 06-13-2017 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Correct the brain fogged reverse order of intent...lol.
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  #22  
Old 06-13-2017, 01:29 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Hold the crash until 3, it creates a cool tension moment. Get the rest of the band to accent it with you and its even cooler.
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  #23  
Old 06-13-2017, 01:56 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Crashing on 1 into the verse cuts across the Singers vocals...not a good thing.
Most of the time you want to ease off the intensity during a verse.

Its a hard habit to break though....
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  #24  
Old 06-13-2017, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

For the music I play crashing the one and playing with next to no dynamics is common, but I am trying to change both of these.

I feel like crashing on the 1, but doing it every 4 bars is far too common. A good way to think of it is does it NEED a crash? or ask yourself WHY are you crashing in that spot. If they song requires it, it's a big transition, etc it makes sense. If your saying, well it was 4 measures, or it's beat one so I should, You're wrong.

Not every transition from a verse to a bridge needs one either. I have also been working on this.

Another thing I have put a ton of time into is crashing on beat 2, or 3..or the and of 1,2, or 3 and going over the bar line in my fills. You can also work on the E's and A's. Makes it feel like a whole new song.
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  #25  
Old 06-13-2017, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

It depends on the song but sometimes not playing *anything* on beat 1 up until beat 2 works really well.

Or omitting a snare hit or two during a verse, maybe substituting it with an open hat, a ride bell or tambourine. Keeps things interesting without becoming obtrusive.

And dynamics, dynamics, dynamics.... a concept I wish the guitarists in my band could grasp :)
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  #26  
Old 06-13-2017, 04:29 PM
AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken is offline
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
It's like a combination of the tension and releasing, except I'm not releasing all the way.
Wow, not crashing on 1 and holding your release ... a Stewart Copeland reference _and_ a Sting reference! :-P
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  #27  
Old 06-13-2017, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

I didn't crash on 1 one time.

I didn't sleep for three days.
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  #28  
Old 06-13-2017, 05:28 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I remember reading somewhere that in the 20's 30's and 40's, it was considered stepping on a singers space, crashing beat on beat 1. I'm sure it was still done but you do hear a lot of crashes on beat 4 on the early records.
It sounds like you're talking about the "jazz era." And in jazz playing, in general, you avoid crashing on 1, or even ending fills on 1. It can be done sparingly, but it sounds really un-hip if you do it all the time.

For backbeat-oriented music, I agree, it's nice to leave out those crashes. I think about this a lot. Especially when playing small clubs where volume needs to be kept under control, cymbals don't sound as good being crashed gently, they really only open up at certain volumes. So I often omit the crash.

On a related note: Have you ever hit a crash at some point in a song, decided it didn't sound good, then struggle with the decision about whether to crash next time that part of the song comes up? The opposite also happens, where I wish I had crashed, but didn't. What do you do?

I struggle with those types of decisions. Part of me wants to be consistent within the performance, so I'll repeat a crash even if I didn't like it and just remember not to do it next time we play the song. Other times, it bothers me so much that I stop crashing at that point for the rest of the performance. I guess it depends on how much what I did the first time bothers me.
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  #29  
Old 06-13-2017, 06:13 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Well... not all sentences should end with an exclamation point. You'd be yelling all the time. (unless your hair really IS on fire ;-) And if music is a form of communication, I don't think you need to crash all the time unless you need the accent. Think of your playing as punctuating the music. If you only need a nice period or comma, a nice soft "doonk" on a high tom or a gentle "booomp" on a low tom might be just the ticket.

As far as crashing when you wished you didn't or vice-versa, I don't think most folks would even notice - just us drummers. And even then, as long as you didn't step on the vocalist or soloist, most drummers would wonder if it was on purpose or a mistake.
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  #30  
Old 06-13-2017, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

For variety, in certain songs where I feel its called for, I'll crash really lightly on the 1 using a very thin 17" Sabian AAXplosion. A glancing blow crash that wouldn't be heard if using a thicker cymbal.

It creates more of a "shush" sound than a bright solid crash, which gives the benefit of an emphasis without shouting it out.

Last edited by newoldie; 06-14-2017 at 04:35 AM. Reason: typo
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  #31  
Old 06-13-2017, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
Right up there with...

Ride cymbal on the verse and hats on the chorus....

;)
Yes, that gets old too. Nice to change this routine around a lot too.
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  #32  
Old 06-13-2017, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Thanks for seeing through my brain fog...

My post should have said:

"Right up there with HATS on the VERSE and RIDE on the CHORUS!"

It's like 96 degrees here in the shop today and I'm feeling my age lol.
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  #33  
Old 06-13-2017, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
I didn't sleep for three days.
Because that would be too long.
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  #34  
Old 06-13-2017, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

So are you all talking about original music? If you are playing covers don't you want to play primarily what the original drummer played?
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post

On a related note: Have you ever hit a crash at some point in a song, decided it didn't sound good, then struggle with the decision about whether to crash next time that part of the song comes up? The opposite also happens, where I wish I had crashed, but didn't. What do you do?

I struggle with those types of decisions. Part of me wants to be consistent within the performance, so I'll repeat a crash even if I didn't like it and just remember not to do it next time we play the song. Other times, it bothers me so much that I stop crashing at that point for the rest of the performance. I guess it depends on how much what I did the first time bothers me.
You can always hit a cowbell instead of that crash, just to spice it up a bit.
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  #36  
Old 06-13-2017, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by Groov-E View Post
You can always hit a cowbell instead of that crash, just to spice it up a bit.
The best way to do it is to substitute every high hat note and crash with a cowbell note.
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Old 06-13-2017, 11:51 PM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Sometimes a nice open hi-hat on the 1 until the 2 can be a really nice replacement for a crash hit.
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  #38  
Old 06-14-2017, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

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Originally Posted by Juniper View Post
Sometimes a nice open hi-hat on the 1 until the 2 can be a really nice replacement for a crash hit.
True. Serves the same function but with a different effect.
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Old 06-14-2017, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Or just do the Keith Moon thing....crash ALL THE TIME!
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  #40  
Old 06-14-2017, 07:22 AM
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Default Re: Crashing on beat 1

Try crashing on the 4 at the end of the fill then each alternate fill on the following 1 and repeat, good exercise.. see how long you can do it before realising that it doesn't matter and the singer can't sing anyway. Ha!
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