DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 05-26-2009, 06:33 PM
drummerBUMMER drummerBUMMER is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 40
Default when we practice.......

hey guys, i ve been wondering how long does it take a chop, lick or groove to pass from short to long term memory? im guessing it varies from person to person, but anyway what about u?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-26-2009, 08:10 PM
vinngadd's Avatar
vinngadd vinngadd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 31
Default Re: when we practice.......

It probably does vary from person to person, but for me it's probably about a 20-30 minute period. The reason being is because I practice the few licks I learn very methodically and slowly. Take the Steve Gadd lick that Terry Branham transcribed for instance. I started that lick off at about 60 BPM. And I only moved it up at 2 BPM intervals up until I had it up to tempo. That was about two years ago. I don't really work on that lick a lot, but I have it committed to memory. I can write it out and play it so that I can share it with others. And that's all because I spent all that time learning it over a 30 minute period.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-26-2009, 08:25 PM
Vipercussionist's Avatar
Vipercussionist Vipercussionist is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Rhode Island (USA)
Posts: 742
Default Re: when we practice.......

OH yeah, it varies QUITE a bit!!! Sometimes I blank out pretty good on stage, but if I don't panic everything comes out OK.

I always find it hard to remember the parts of new songs. I think old age is creepin' in!!

What were we talking about again??
__________________
Things to share
Thanks are implied
You are welcome
Listen To BONHAM here!!
ViperFace
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-26-2009, 09:42 PM
jonescrusher's Avatar
jonescrusher jonescrusher is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 2,207
Default Re: when we practice.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinngadd View Post
It probably does vary from person to person, but for me it's probably about a 20-30 minute period. The reason being is because I practice the few licks I learn very methodically and slowly. Take the Steve Gadd lick that Terry Branham transcribed for instance. I started that lick off at about 60 BPM. And I only moved it up at 2 BPM intervals up until I had it up to tempo. That was about two years ago. I don't really work on that lick a lot, but I have it committed to memory. I can write it out and play it so that I can share it with others. And that's all because I spent all that time learning it over a 30 minute period.

I think the OP was referring to the length of time it takes to fully absorb a lick/rudiment/technique, to the point that it comes out naturally when playing ie. not having to overtly recall it. If it takes you 30 minutes to acheive that you must be outplaying Vinnie and Steve put together!

I know there are some figures bandied about - 100 reps to get something comfortable, 2000 to start absorbing it, 10,000 practice hours to acheive virtuoso status etc. Seems that we're talking doing repetitions numbering in the thousands, so maybe 10-14 days with a concentrated regime? That said, being able to pull off a lick to the standard you hear a top pro play it may require honed pre-existing skills, which in themselves will need to be absorbed. The only certainty is that structured rehearsal is the only sure fire way to acheive.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-26-2009, 10:33 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is online now
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 21,245
Default Re: when we practice.......

Depends on the lick.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-26-2009, 10:55 PM
caddywumpus's Avatar
caddywumpus caddywumpus is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, OR USA
Posts: 5,785
Default Re: when we practice.......

The best way to get something from short-term memory to long-term memory is to practice it, go away from it, and come back to it multiple times. It's the way our brain works. It would be more productive, in this sense, to work on something for 5 minutes a day for 6 days than it would to work on it for just 30 minutes in one sitting. A year later, you'd have more luck remembering it if you took it in smaller chunks. Of course, working on it more would be even better.

For me, I know that I have a lick commited to memory when I can do it over and over again without thinking about it. That level of being familiar and comfortable with a lick means that my muscle memory is happening, and I can pull it out at any time without a single worry of "forgetting" it part-way through.
__________________
I guess my nickname is "life" now.

My kit: http://drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44195
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-27-2009, 12:51 PM
vinngadd's Avatar
vinngadd vinngadd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 31
Default Re: when we practice.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonescrusher View Post
I think the OP was referring to the length of time it takes to fully absorb a lick/rudiment/technique, to the point that it comes out naturally when playing ie. not having to overtly recall it. If it takes you 30 minutes to acheive that you must be outplaying Vinnie and Steve put together!

I know there are some figures bandied about - 100 reps to get something comfortable, 2000 to start absorbing it, 10,000 practice hours to acheive virtuoso status etc. Seems that we're talking doing repetitions numbering in the thousands, so maybe 10-14 days with a concentrated regime? That said, being able to pull off a lick to the standard you hear a top pro play it may require honed pre-existing skills, which in themselves will need to be absorbed. The only certainty is that structured rehearsal is the only sure fire way to acheive.
I didn't think about it that way. I was just assuming that he meant recalling it. I'm not sure how long it would take me personally to have a lick enter my playing and it come out naturally. That takes a long time. I know I play paradiddles, ruffs, flams, flam accents, etc...but those are a part of my playing. I'm just going for a sound. I don't consciously think about them as I'm doing them. I think the same can happen with the licks we learn. I'm not outplaying Vinnie and Steve!!!!! LOL!!!! Having something enter your playing naturally takes a long time and a lot of hours like you said.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-27-2009, 01:12 PM
oops's Avatar
oops oops is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 579
Default Re: when we practice.......

This is something I've been tossing around a lot the last couple of days.

I have to learn Max Roach's solo (and fours) from Joy Spring (Clifford Brown and Max Roach cd, HIGHLY worth owning, Max solos on pretty much every tune).

I've got about 2 weeks to commit it to memory, and while I'm sure I can get it in my short term and pass the exam, I'm interested in being able to add it to my repertoire.

I read an interesting article that said you should review something 3 times in a day, then 3 times the next week, 3 times the next month, then 3 more times in that year, and it'd be committed to your long term memory. Whilst this is great idea in theory I'm not sure about the practicality of returning to all your ideas 3 months down the track to refresh them.

Comments?
__________________
Wishing I was Stanton Moore...
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com