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  #1  
Old 05-02-2009, 07:54 PM
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Default Over Drumming

I haven't posted a whole ton on this forum, I usually stick to ghostnote, but nonetheless this topic wouldn't fit in ghostnotes forums very well. So I've come to you guys.

The topic is over drumming; meaning, trying to do to add too many intricacies into your drumming. I am drumming in a hardcore punk band right now. We are in the process of writing a new set/ep, and this time around I feel like my philosophies on drumming may be changing. Come a year ago I wouldn't even be thinking about "simplifying" my drumming. I use to make it my personal goal to out drum other bands drummers, and as a result I threw a lot of crazy avant garde crap into our music with the intentions of having other drummers look at me and think "he just did that." I was cocky and pretentious in many ways.

But now with this new music we're writing, I feel like I am leaning more towards just keeping solid beats, using fills only when they're needed, and keeping the avant garde aspect of my drumming to a minimum like the fills (only when its needed.) In a way, my drumming is now "dumber." Not because I haven't put enough thought or time into my writing, but because I feel as though it may be the more professional route to choose. Is this bad? Am I wrong?

Is the drummers performance more memorable when hes solid as can be, as opposed to him trying deliberately hard to impress others?

Any insight is welcome, thanks!
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:15 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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Originally Posted by Aleksandr View Post
Is the drummers performance more memorable when hes solid as can be, as opposed to him trying deliberately hard to impress others?
That's how things are in the real world of working musicians. Sounds like you're on the right track!

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  #3  
Old 05-02-2009, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

Keep it real......simple.

You probably have times during your show where you get to shine. Most of the time, the focus is on the singer or lead instrumentalist. You have a supportive role at that time, so you should play it as such.

Watching a band that has a member that overplays is like trying to have a conversation with a friend while my son is tugging on my leg saying, "Daddy, daddy, daddy..."
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

Great topic, this will expose a lot of drummers preconceived notions (mine included) that "dumber" drumming is bad. It's actually the right path, for most "regular" music at least. Trying to drum to "outdrum" others is taking a trip down a dead end street, wrong motivation. Intricate drumming....All I can relate is my experience....When I listen to playback of gig recordings, (every gig without fail) that's when I realize that "intricate" drumming just plain doesn't work (in the music I play at least) So over time my fills have gotten pared down to only the necessary ones, the groove is king, and I am much happier listening to the playback. Also, songs that I just "keep time" to, that to me are boring (I thought), actually sound WAY better than I think it sounds onstage. So now when I play those "boring" songs, I now know that it doesn't come across "boring" and I can enjoy them much more. As a beginner (not implying that you are at all) you naturally want to play intricate stuff to impress people, this lasts a long time, then hopefully you start to realize you don't sound as good as you think and you do a 180 and start to simplify, which is a good thing. You have to understand what the role is of the drumset. It's to support everything else, not be the center of focus. Drums are not a melodic instrument and when the groove aspect of our playing is sacrificed to play "intricate" stuff, our inexperience is being showcased. When keeping time is needed and the drummer is playing intricately instead....he just doesn't "get it" yet. Simplify. Know your role in the band, and don't try to muck it all up with "cool" stuff that just subtracts from the net effect..
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Old 05-03-2009, 04:19 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

Sometimes less is more.
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  #6  
Old 05-03-2009, 05:01 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

I believe the following quote to be correct. "You exist to serve the music. The music doesn't exist to serve you."
Jamie Muir to Bill Bruford.
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Old 05-03-2009, 06:03 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksandr View Post
I haven't posted a whole ton on this forum, I usually stick to ghostnote, but nonetheless this topic wouldn't fit in ghostnotes forums very well. So I've come to you guys.

The topic is over drumming; meaning, trying to do to add too many intricacies into your drumming. I am drumming in a hardcore punk band right now. We are in the process of writing a new set/ep, and this time around I feel like my philosophies on drumming may be changing. Come a year ago I wouldn't even be thinking about "simplifying" my drumming. I use to make it my personal goal to out drum other bands drummers, and as a result I threw a lot of crazy avant garde crap into our music with the intentions of having other drummers look at me and think "he just did that." I was cocky and pretentious in many ways.

But now with this new music we're writing, I feel like I am leaning more towards just keeping solid beats, using fills only when they're needed, and keeping the avant garde aspect of my drumming to a minimum like the fills (only when its needed.) In a way, my drumming is now "dumber." Not because I haven't put enough thought or time into my writing, but because I feel as though it may be the more professional route to choose. Is this bad? Am I wrong?

Is the drummers performance more memorable when hes solid as can be, as opposed to him trying deliberately hard to impress others?

Any insight is welcome, thanks!
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  #8  
Old 05-03-2009, 06:18 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

No, I think you are thinking along the right track.

Anyone can swat flies on a kit. The challenge is writing that sweet fill that just sticks out enough to remember. When you are ready to track those new tunes in the studio, people will be screaming "keep solid track, keep solid track". lol

IDK, maybe not but keeping solid track is generally better overall. When it's time to shine, go for it but when it's time to lay back and compliment do so.
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  #9  
Old 05-03-2009, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

Imagine if every band member tried to "embellish" to their fullest extent--the music would likely be a disaster of unlistenable proportion!
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:18 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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Imagine if every band member tried to "embellish" to their fullest extent--the music would likely be a disaster of unlistenable proportion!
Yeah, and there's a lot of music out there like that!

I've rarely played with anyone who wanted me to play more notes, or to play louder, or to play double bass or odd time signatures. Most people like the concept of a drummer more than the reality of a drummer.

I wonder if, on other musician discussion boards, there is a much soul-searching and teeth-gnashing as there is here on the topic of overplaying, serving the music, etc. etc. etc.
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  #11  
Old 05-04-2009, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

I completely understand where your coming from thats one of the reason i like john mayers continuum good solid drumming,

btw your avatar is a great abum i waslistening today!
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:42 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

I think it's great to see this being talked about. So many drummers really pile it on and, yes it's impressive, but it's also not very musical in my opinion. Jazz drummers really overdo it a lot. Tony this and Elvin that, filling in every space and responding to every lick that the soloist plays.
It's much cooler, I think, to listen to music and at some point realize, "Man, that guy's really cooking," instead of being slammed over the head with playing that would be better suited to a drum clinic.
There are a lot of places where there's no subsitute for over drumming, though. Try to imagine the Who without Keith Moon. Try to imagine "A Love Supreme" without Elvin Jones. It just wouldn't be anywhere near the same. But that sort of thing is the exception, I think.
Easy for me to say, though, since I can't play like either of those guys.
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  #13  
Old 05-04-2009, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksandr View Post
In a way, my drumming is now "dumber."

It's completely the opposite really.
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  #14  
Old 05-04-2009, 01:42 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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Originally Posted by Jon E. View Post
Imagine if every band member tried to "embellish" to their fullest extent--the music would likely be a disaster of unlistenable proportion!
PlanetX? lol

There have been may talks about this on a lot of drum forums and guys say, "Yea, I play less now and I play better.", but when I see these guys around in clubs working a gig they still still lay it on hard n heavey, filling every space and generally making a mess out of the music.
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  #15  
Old 05-04-2009, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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PlanetX? lol

...filling every space and generally making a mess out of the music.
Ha ha well said
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  #16  
Old 05-04-2009, 04:20 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

I think it largely depends on the style of music your playing, as well as the band your playing with. Some forms of music are more drum driven than others and as such allow for more outgoing playing styles. I believe a group of talented musicians should indeed showcase their talent; tastefully.

I can't say I agree with "serving" the music parsay. This could be because of my young and ignorant ways, but I will continue to be a driving force within the music I play, not a serving force. Like I said, always applied tastefully.

I wont lay down a fill every 4 bars; instead I think this time around I will work toward developing my rhythms in a more thoughtfully complex manner.
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  #17  
Old 05-04-2009, 05:00 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

There can be a powerful Zen thing going on when you lose your ego a bit, hunker down and craft a really great, simplified drum part. Confidently driving a band like that is totally bad-ass. Like Phil Rudd.
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  #18  
Old 05-04-2009, 06:36 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

One way to think of it is:










Just leave space for everybody else
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  #19  
Old 05-04-2009, 07:50 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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Originally Posted by con struct View Post
I think it's great to see this being talked about. So many drummers really pile it on and, yes it's impressive, but it's also not very musical in my opinion. Jazz drummers really overdo it a lot. Tony this and Elvin that, filling in every space and responding to every lick that the soloist plays.
Yooooo boy. ^ ^ ^

Attention groove soldiers!

Release the catchphrases!

Let the deja vu begin!
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
Yooooo boy. ^ ^ ^

Attention groove soldiers!

Release the catchphrases!

Let the deja vu begin!
Preliminary strike? ;-)

it's dangerous territory in here to try to square the circle between musical accompaniment and foundational groove. it's all relevant, meaningful and beautiful!

doing the right thing for the music is simply a sign of musical maturity, imho.
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  #21  
Old 05-04-2009, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

Think of it as having a conversation with someone who talks waaaaaaaaaay too much. No wants to talk with that person and by over drumming you are equivalent to that person and no one wants to play with you.
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Old 05-04-2009, 02:43 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

Everything is timekeeping. If you can keep time with a whole bunch of pizzazz (akin to Vinnie), then by all means go for it. But if you can't keep time with the simplest of beats (akin to Meg), then the question of overplaying is rather academic.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

Who exactly decides when it's over drumming?--- in light of the fact that:

Chops and musicality are not always mutually exclusive.

Yes, I think this constitutes an appropriate 1000th post.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

The irony continues and the soldiers of various sides dig in their heels and shout their epithets at the Others. Every ego clutching to their patch of dirt.

If we're looking for a definition of musicality, that's most certainly not it. At least there's some profit to be had.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
Who exactly decides when it's over drumming?--- in light of the fact that:

Chops and musicality are not always mutually exclusive.

Yes, I think this constitutes an appropriate 1000th post.
Agree....and it's really easy to be lulled into grooveland without offering up anything else musically. Just because someone 'plays alot' does not make them unmusical and playing musical does not always = simply playing less notes. Some people can play very intricate complex material and do it extremely musically...some people when they attempt to play complex sound like a mess and should either keep it simple or improve their levels of playing before attempting to play more complex material. It's all a matter of ability and context really.

It's like the tired (non) argument of groove versus technique. I cna't think of ANY major player out there who plays alot of "stuff" who cannot also groove when they need to. Vinnie is a perfect illustration. they simply are not mutually exclusive things...in fact the more you know how to play and more refined your abilities the better you are able to understand HOW to groove and play in that context.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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Originally Posted by druid View Post
Agree....and it's really easy to be lulled into grooveland without offering up anything else musically. Just because someone 'plays alot' does not make them unmusical and playing musical does not always = simply playing less notes. Some people can play very intricate complex material and do it extremely musically...some people when they attempt to play complex sound like a mess and should either keep it simple or improve their levels of playing before attempting to play more complex material. It's all a matter of ability and context really.

It's like the tired (non) argument of groove versus technique. I cna't think of ANY major player out there who plays alot of "stuff" who cannot also groove when they need to. Vinnie is a perfect illustration. they simply are not mutually exclusive things...in fact the more you know how to play and more refined your abilities the better you are able to understand HOW to groove and play in that context.
I tend to agree with most of what you said except this last assertion. In my experience, there is absolutely no guarantee that having a greater technical command of the instrument will necessarily lead to more musical/groovy playing. Just as a lack of technique hasn't stopped myriad drummers from putting in incredibly musical, grooving performances. Technique is a tool, but whether we use our tools to be artists, craftspersons or merely weekend DYI'ers is an entirely different question. A meaningful work of art can be produced using the highest technology, or with a hunk of wood and a knife. Chops and musicality are not mutually exclusive, but I reject the dichotomy not just because it is simplistic and overly dualistic (and it is) but because it erroneously places chops on the same level of importance as musicality. Frankly, we're talking about different orders of magnitude entirely. Chops must forever be in service of musicality - or just because you're a fast runner doesn't make you a good dancer, though quick feet definitely help.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

I guess what I am getting at is that just as some technical players can tend to ignore or have a snobby attitude about simplistic material, groove players can miss the boat with technical material dismissing it as "overly busy". It's been my experience that some of the technical people can also groove in fact very well and their playing ( even the over the top stuff) has a groove to it...just not one alot of people consider a typical "groove" per se. In fact to truly play some of the stuff correctly you want to work within the context of groove and feel to make it sound "right" to begin with....otherwise it's just a flailing of notes at high speeds or whatever. The other thing is this when people talk about groove they are usually referring to music in 4/4....well, there are styles in all genres that don't neccesarily fall into that parameter....indian music, bulgarian music, certain types of jazz which do not fall into those tradtional standards of things...but there certainly have their own "groove" happening when you listen. It's just that in certain traditions of Western music people are trained to hear one way and some other instrumentalists are actually deficient on hearing other types of rhythms so they expect a 4/4 groove all the time. Knowing when to play certain styles of course is the answer but it just rubs me wrong to hear pople argue groove versus technique...it's false as you said.
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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Originally Posted by Boomka View Post
I tend to agree with most of what you said except this last assertion. In my experience, there is absolutely no guarantee that having a greater technical command of the instrument will necessarily lead to more musical/groovy playing. Just as a lack of technique hasn't stopped myriad drummers from putting in incredibly musical, grooving performances. Technique is a tool, but whether we use our tools to be artists, craftspersons or merely weekend DYI'ers is an entirely different question. A meaningful work of art can be produced using the highest technology, or with a hunk of wood and a knife. Chops and musicality are not mutually exclusive, but I reject the dichotomy not just because it is simplistic and overly dualistic (and it is) but because it erroneously places chops on the same level of importance as musicality. Frankly, we're talking about different orders of magnitude entirely. Chops must forever be in service of musicality - or just because you're a fast runner doesn't make you a good dancer, though quick feet definitely help.
You would be in error to ever believe that the larger number of technique adherents/ past the nonmusical Joey boys who play Christmas drumsets/ don't understand your comments. They're certainly obvious enough, to the point of being /I'm sure/ unintentionally condescending towards those who have polished this discussion enough to see others in the furniture.

Your simplistic dichotomy analogy originally surfaced on drum forums years ago, when those in possession of few if any verifiable talents dysfunctionally elevated the negative significance of chops, as a way of arguing that any form of drumming requiring more than one hand, signalled the end of civilization as we knew it. From the get go it was nothing but a tactic used to validate an excuse for poor musicians to forego the actual work required to become good musicians. As an added bonus, talented drummers obsessively disgusted with the technical leanings of misdirected guys, chimed in. Then the forum wing men, lecturing fence sitters, and trolls, who claimed that any disagreement on the Internet was a fight, but could have cared less about any consensus that led to something meaningful, latched on to these really good players as a way of picking up credibility that didn't belong to them.

That's where your ego accusation truly belongs, not here.

Unfortunately as time passed, the black and white nature of Internet dialogue crystalized what could have been a beautiful resolution into a ficticious battle of good vs. evil.

Over time, Internet drum forums drew sides on this issue, and the all chops are bad crowd took over every forum but one. Eventually, a series of catchphrases /many of which can be found here/ were conjured to reinforce victory and codify a population of mostly followers. Then all that took on a life of its own to where it was even deemed appropriate to include Elvin Jones and Tony Williams in discussions of poor taste /see above/ alongside a ludicrous downsizing of the Buddy Rich historical legacy.

Still, even that wasn't enough.

Soon one began to observe an abundance of urban myths that could never be proved.

In jazz for instance, I would like to know of a single legendary drummer, other than the biblical miracle of Dannie Richmond, who got to that pinnacle without obvious technical grounding. I contend that no others exist. There most certainly is no myriad.

Then mainly out of habit, the discussion further evolved to include intellectually inaccurate equalizations of chops and musicality. Soon through repetition, in its role as the other side's singular catchphrase, it became an expression drawing in any number of related truths, but in doing so made a compelling point in true Internet style.

So that's your origin of the expression, and why people like me use it when required.

With all that said, I can still respect your point of view and observe correctly that your posts are of high quality. I merely ask you do likewise without assuming that proponents of necessary technical foundations haven't previously thought anything out enough to get it.

I retire from this thread. I've already said enough.
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Old 05-04-2009, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

Matt I believe you mentioned it here before but it is much like 'Idiocracy' sometimes when discussing this stuff.....and it has gone on for years and years....

I tried to explain it to someone once...some people are 'beat keepers' who know a few fills....some people play rhythms and understand it...some people are complete masters at the drums. All of us I am sure go thru various stages of this as well try to improve and develop. But...there are some who choose to not develop yet want that badge that proclaims them a drummer....( I see em in Guitar Center all the time)

People who try to somehow diminish those who put in tireless hours to "get good" at whatever style they are working on with too many notes arguments....well I just don't get it...anymore than I get people sitting down and play Boom Bap Boom Boom Bap and immediately declare themselves...a "drummer". It IS insulting to those who work hard at it and have respect for it. And lets be honest, some people don't put in the work to improve and it's always easier to slag someone who does than it is to put in the work yourself. I have seen this with people I know.

And it's true I know of NO jazz players who have not spent a great deal of time honing their craft beyond basic time keeping. And despite his gift ( which was obvious) and I sure Buddy Rich spent a good bit of time woodshedding as well.
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Old 05-04-2009, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

I think these discussions go too far in one direction, many times...as if to say "chops" has no place in drumming and drummers should not aspire to have chops, play amazing phrases, learn to play four different simultaneous patterns w/ all limbs, etc.

In some types of music, chops is perfectly acceptable, listenable, and enjoyable by *anyone*, not just musicians. In others it is not...it's really subjective and comes down to the style, the people involved, and the "target audience".

When these threads come up, I always think of Carter Beauford. He plays in what is essentially a "pop" band. Is he an over-playing, attention-starved, ego-maniacal amateur? Would DMB have sounded half as amazing without him?
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:15 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
You would be in error to ever believe that the larger number of technique adherents/ past the nonmusical Joey boys who play Christmas drumsets/ don't understand your comments. They're certainly obvious enough, to the point of being /I'm sure/ unintentionally condescending towards those who have polished this discussion enough to see others in the furniture.
Your defensiveness is noted, but unnecessary. I was doing what people do when they are trying to find common ground and generate discussion - that is, start from the "obvious": what might be called "first principles". I am not privy to all the previous conversations that you - and Druid - have had on this matter and I won't bother to go looking for them either. Whether or not your version of internet forum history or your entymology is accurate is similarly immaterial to the discussion as far as I'm concerned. Though it is always good to recall the rather "obvious" fact that when differences of opinion occur there is an inevitable hardening of hearts, closing of minds and slogans adopted. That - and the debate over Buddy, Elvin and Tony - is not peculiar to the internet.


Quote:
With all that said, I can still respect your point of view and observe correctly that your posts are of high quality. I merely ask you do likewise without assuming that proponents of necessary technical foundations haven't previously thought anything out enough to get it.

I retire from this thread. I've already said enough.
Though you've chosen a characteristic last-word flounce, I suppose I'll respond anyway just in case you're lurking (and you are). I certainly did consider that Druid was capable of understanding my point of view, and/or had considered it, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered responding to them. I took exception to the specific implications of their post and expressed a difference of opinion. While it's good that you feel a sense of loyalty to him/her and your defense of them is somewhat commendable, a more constructive approach would be to address the specific objection I made and the sentence at which it was levelled. Since you have decided to speak on behalf of Druid, perhaps you are in a position to clarify what he/she said? In spite of all your words, you've neglected to do so. Again, I ask that you be specific.

That you rather narcissistically chose to take a comment made to someone else as an affront to you and an imagined in-group called "the proponents of necessary technical foundations" speaks to your mindset more than mine at the time I posted. I wasn't speaking about YOU, but about me to someone else about a very specific sentence they wrote. So in the spirit of giving each other sage advice, I'll give you a piece I imagine you've been given before: get the chip off your shoulder. There is a persistent assumption in your responses to me and others that you and your team are being attacked. You aren't.

Last edited by Boomka; 05-05-2009 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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I think these discussions go too far in one direction, many times...as if to say "chops" has no place in drumming and drummers should not aspire to have chops, play amazing phrases, learn to play four different simultaneous patterns w/ all limbs, etc.

In some types of music, chops is perfectly acceptable, listenable, and enjoyable by *anyone*, not just musicians. In others it is not...it's really subjective and comes down to the style, the people involved, and the "target audience".

When these threads come up, I always think of Carter Beauford. He plays in what is essentially a "pop" band. Is he an over-playing, attention-starved, ego-maniacal amateur? Would DMB have sounded half as amazing without him?
Well stated. In some settings (not many) drummers are expected to over-play, like in Gospel Chops. If you're not showing off, you're not doing that genre right. If you're playing AC-DC covers, you need to keep it simple. If you're playing jazz, you need to keep it complex but simple.

As I have said before: The job of a drummer is to light a fire under the ass of the rest of the band. Sometimes it's a Bic lighter, sometimes its a cuddly campfire and other times it's a flamethrower. A good drummer knows the correct time and place for each of them.
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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There can be a powerful Zen thing going on when you lose your ego a bit, hunker down and craft a really great, simplified drum part. Confidently driving a band like that is totally bad-ass. Like Phil Rudd.
Don't ever say "bad-ass" and Phil Rudd in the same sentance, please.
lol
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

Ok one more.

Boomka.

Again, I respect you...seriously.

But I ask that you either answer the rebuttal or don't. All this other try to draw the other guy out personal stuff isn't pertinent to what I had hoped would be a nice debate. I used words like unintentionally and respect in a direct and honest way. Sincerity was at the core.

I look forward to continually learning from your insights.

Now this really is it.
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Old 05-04-2009, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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Ok one more.

Boomka.

Again, I respect you...seriously.

But I ask that you either answer the rebuttal or don't.
There was a rebuttal in there? Seriously, and with complete sincerity, I didn't read a single word in there that actually answered what I said, specifically.

The closest thing to a specific rebuttal -- i.e. your comments about Danny Richmond, etc. -- poached a word I used (myriad) while simultaneously substituting a narrower context (jazz) for the one I used. That's not sincere by any definition I know.

But in the interests of finding common ground, I'll address it anyway. It's a fair point - and one I've made a number of times: jazz music requires a high degree of specific technique. I still don't see how that's germane to what I said. "Jazz" and "musicality" are not coextensive.
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:05 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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I tend to agree with most of what you said except this last assertion. In my experience, there is absolutely no guarantee that having a greater technical command of the instrument will necessarily lead to more musical/groovy playing. Just as a lack of technique hasn't stopped myriad drummers from putting in incredibly musical, grooving performances. Technique is a tool, but whether we use our tools to be artists, craftspersons or merely weekend DYI'ers is an entirely different question. A meaningful work of art can be produced using the highest technology, or with a hunk of wood and a knife. Chops and musicality are not mutually exclusive, but I reject the dichotomy not just because it is simplistic and overly dualistic (and it is) but because it erroneously places chops on the same level of importance as musicality. Frankly, we're talking about different orders of magnitude entirely. Chops must forever be in service of musicality - or just because you're a fast runner doesn't make you a good dancer, though quick feet definitely help.
I agree with this. I have seen some primitive art, with simple technique, that is very moving, and I've seen some masterful technique applied to banal subjects. It's the same with music, as I've heard some mindblowing music from people with relatively little command of technique and I've heard some bland stuff from virtuosos.

If I hear the word "musicality" one more time though, I'm gonna scream. It gets my vote for overused word of the month.
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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But now with this new music we're writing, I feel like I am leaning more towards just keeping solid beats, using fills only when they're needed, and keeping the avant garde aspect of my drumming to a minimum like the fills (only when its needed.) In a way, my drumming is now "dumber." Not because I haven't put enough thought or time into my writing, but because I feel as though it may be the more professional route to choose. Is this bad? Am I wrong?

Is the drummers performance more memorable when hes solid as can be, as opposed to him trying deliberately hard to impress others?

Any insight is welcome, thanks!
Hey man, it all depends on the music, really. Don't think of it as, "does it sound more professional?" There is no standard that says as a professional you must play to the extreme of your ability. If you feel that hanging in the pocket and not doing a fill would sound best in a song, it probably would sound best that way!
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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If I hear the word "musicality" one more time though, I'm gonna scream. It gets my vote for overused word of the month.
I don't mean to wade into controversy or start any fires here, but what's wrong with "musicality?"
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Old 05-05-2009, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

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Don't ever say "bad-ass" and Phil Rudd in the same sentance, please.
lol
Wow, have you never listened to AC/DC? Phil Rudd is an amazing player.

I think a guy like you would find it more than a challenge to play the parts he does with such a consistent pocket and without playing some "monster blast beats", dude.

Who do you think is better? Lars?
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:55 AM
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Default Re: Over Drumming

Are we bound to engage in these ceaseless, divisive, brackish, and ultimately impotent "Chops v. Groove" altercations ad nauseum? Drummers have seemingly debated this contentious topic since Time Immemorial(or at least the advent of drumming in popular music); and little progress has been realized. That the art of drumming could become so polarized is quite discouraging, and I think it would be best if we could all move forward amicably.
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