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  #41  
Old 01-12-2009, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Originally Posted by what the funk of it View Post
Woah! Don't sneak up on me like that :P

I think you're on to something...
There's definitely such a thing as reading into something so much that it eventually becomes redundant. And I say that from experience.
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  #42  
Old 01-12-2009, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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There's definitely such a thing as reading into something so much that it eventually becomes redundant. And I say that from experience.
I must have missed something. Can you explain this to me?

I'm no vegan, but please spare me the beef.
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  #43  
Old 01-12-2009, 10:37 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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I must have missed something. Can you explain this to me?

I'm no vegan, but please spare me the beef.
Was that a joke...?

Nevermind. I was just commenting on your use of vocabulary.
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  #44  
Old 01-12-2009, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

Hitting the cymbals without bass drum is not necessarily a mistake.
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  #45  
Old 01-12-2009, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

A pretty lame one yeah. If I didn't know any better I'd say you're beefin' with me. Then again I could be wrong seeing as I'm still pretty clueless as to what you meant in the first place. In any case, I'm glad you like my words. I like yours too.

Anyways, this stupid little argument fits in here just fine considering the title of the thread. Time to get back on topic.

Friends?
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  #46  
Old 01-12-2009, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

Having a drummer play 4rth notes on a really fast song instead of half notes. It just makes the song sound horrible to me, it creates to much tension in the song.
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  #47  
Old 01-12-2009, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Originally Posted by what the funk of it View Post
A pretty lame one yeah. If I didn't know any better I'd say you're beefin' with me. Then again I could be wrong seeing as I'm still pretty clueless as to what you meant in the first place. In any case, I'm glad you like my words. I like yours too.

Anyways, this stupid little argument fits in here just fine considering the title of the thread. Time to get back on topic.

Friends?
Yeah, I didn't mean any offense. When you said that instead of saying wrong and right, we should say bad and good, I was just pointing out that ultimately, they are the same thing.
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  #48  
Old 01-12-2009, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Yeah, I didn't mean any offense. When you said that instead of saying wrong and right, we should say bad and good, I was just pointing out that ultimately, they are the same thing.
Ahah! You're sort of right, but I think you're still missing my initial point. Ultimately what sounds good is right, right?

BUT! When it comes to music, it's all about exploration and creativity. So you really can't go wrong. Then again if you play something that's bad, although you're not wrong, people generally won't listen to music that is bad. Whether you care or not is entirely up to you.

For example, say you're jamming with some buds. Whether you play your ostinato with quarters or half notes, as long as you're in time, it's going to sound right. Personally I'd go with eights, cause who the hell rides half notes anyways. (I think Drummergirl is in a 2/4 state of mind and there's nothing wrong with that either!) You don't even have to play an ostinato, you're free to do whatever you want be it a jazz ride pattern, batucada or even the cha cha cha.

My point is that in the end anything you play will either sound good or bad and there's no such thing as a wrong groove - unless you play in a cover band.

Ya Dig?
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  #49  
Old 01-12-2009, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Originally Posted by what the funk of it View Post
A pretty lame one yeah. If I didn't know any better I'd say you're beefin' with me. Then again I could be wrong seeing as I'm still pretty clueless as to what you meant in the first place. In any case, I'm glad you like my words. I like yours too.

Anyways, this stupid little argument fits in here just fine considering the title of the thread. Time to get back on topic.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by what the funk of it View Post
Ahah! You're sort of right, but I think you're still missing my initial point. Ultimately what sounds good is right, right?

BUT! When it comes to music, it's all about exploration and creativity. So you really can't go wrong. Then again if you play something that's bad, although you're not wrong, people generally won't listen to music that is bad. Whether you care or not is entirely up to you.

For example, say you're jamming with some buds. Whether you play your ostinato with quarters or half notes, as long as you're in time, it's going to sound right. Personally I'd go with eights, cause who the hell rides half notes anyways. (I think Drummergirl is in a 2/4 state of mind and there's nothing wrong with that either!) You don't even have to play an ostinato, you're free to do whatever you want be it a jazz ride pattern, batucada or even the cha cha cha.

My point is that in the end anything you play will either sound good or bad and there's no such thing as a wrong groove - unless you play in a cover band.

Ya Dig?
I see was you're saying...what's good is right, but bad isn't necessarily wrong.
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  #50  
Old 01-13-2009, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

Expecting that success comes easy.

This is a bit more general, but i find alot of aspiring young drummers think that they can become pretty pro by just goin to lessons and doing what they're teacher tells them to do. Well i know a few of em, not too sure about the rest of you.
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  #51  
Old 01-13-2009, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

If it sounds good to majority of the audience listening, there is no mistake at all.

my 3 cents.
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  #52  
Old 01-14-2009, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

Number one thing. more drums/cymbals DO NOT = better drummer/playing.

also in my neck of the woods(btw this is a pet peeve) everybody wanting to play drums because they want to show off with a double bass pedal. Now DO NOT get me wrong, I love some double bassing, but basics first, also along with that do not start a band the first year/two you are playing.... UNLESS it is a jam band, and used ONLY for purposes to make yourself better
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  #53  
Old 01-14-2009, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Originally Posted by Pachikara-Tharakan View Post
If it sounds good to majority of the audience listening, there is no mistake at all.

my 3 cents.
...and if it didn't get recorded, the mistake never happened.
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  #54  
Old 03-08-2009, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

for any amateurs....or just drummers who feel they over play too much....
watch steve gadd!.....his philosophy is "simplicity isnt stupidity"....(well i think steve jordan said that, but gadd goes by this principal)/......and look at how much of a well sought after drummer he is.
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  #55  
Old 03-09-2009, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

Pitfalls can hit anybody at any level. When Buddy was with Artie Shaw in the late '30s, Shaw had to keep after Buddy to lay back early in the tune and build up to the heat. Buddy always wanted to go all out early on. Shaw wanted Buddy to build up the excitement and then knock 'em dead. Good advice for any drummer.
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  #56  
Old 03-09-2009, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Originally Posted by sk8erpnkmt369 View Post
do not start a band the first year/two you are playing.... UNLESS it is a jam band, and used ONLY for purposes to make yourself better
As opposed to what, exactly?

What might happen if they started a band for some other reason? Would that really be so awful in every case?
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  #57  
Old 04-06-2009, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Originally Posted by BENANEB View Post
I think some of the biggest mistakes are getting into double bass too early, shopping for drum equipment more than you actually practice drums, and spending too much money on equipment before you actually start gigging.
So why can't beginners have a ride or a snare that sounds good (like a Bosphorus or a black beauty)?
The have the right to everything the same as people that have been playing for 40 years.
I used the crappy cymbals that came with my kit until I had enough to upgrade, I was going to get xs20's, but for that little bit extra, and a free splash, I got AAX's instead. Ihave never looked back. Then again, why would I? I saved for about 7 months to get them by the way.
I bought a used set of HH hi hats not too long ago, for 120. That is about the price of, just a bit over, a set of Paiste Alpha or XS20 hi hats. Would you choose the Alphas / XS20's over HH's?

Last edited by lewisn27; 04-06-2009 at 08:19 PM.
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  #58  
Old 04-06-2009, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Originally Posted by lewisn27 View Post
So why can't beginners have a ride or a snare that sounds good (like a Bosphorus or a black beauty)?
The have the right to everything the same as people that have been playing for 40 years.
I used the crappy cymbals that came with my kit until I had enough to upgrade, I was going to get xs20's, but for that little bit extra, and a free splash, I got AAX's instead. Ihave never looked back. Then again, why would I? I saved for about 7 months to get them by the way.
I bought a used set of HH hi hats not too long ago, for 120. That is about the price of, just a bit over, a set of Paiste Alpha or XS20 hi hats. Would you choose the Alphas / XS20's over HH's?
I don't remember the exact statistic, but something like 1% of 1% of all drummers stick with it past 3 years, if that. All you have to do is look at the member list here, and poke around, to see how many people come on here as new drummers, then disappear after three or four months. So, it is a mistake in that a lot of people blow thousands of dollars on gear that ends up sitting in their basement then getting sold for 30% of what they paid for it.

Then there's the fact that a lot of beginners have horrible technique, so break gear quickly.

And we also see a good number of threads on here from new drummers who can't get their awesome, top-end kits, to sound ok, and think it is the kit's problem, instead of realizing that they just don't know how to tune it.

I'm not saying it is wrong for a beginner to have high-end gear. Just saying that it might be a mistake to start off with it, if only because the odds are against you knowing how to use it (both for sound and for the breaking thing), and are actually against you sticking with it.
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  #59  
Old 04-06-2009, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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... lot of people blow thousands of dollars on gear that ends up sitting in their basement then getting sold for 30% of what they paid for it.
I don't think that's a mistake. I think it's great. I'm the one buying it for 30%.

ATTENTION NEW DRUMMERS: Always buy the best really expensive gear brand new!
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  #60  
Old 04-06-2009, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Let's start a list of things amateurs do, you know, like playing a fill every 4 bars, so the newer drummers here can read them and try to avoid them.
I'll start.
Ending every fill with a crash.
I think it's cool to not "end" a fill with a crash, but just go right back to the beat.
Any others?
Why would you want to start a thread like this?
People learn in many ways at differant speeds, what works for one may never ever work for another- I know this as I teach...This thread is a starter was to take it seriously would make one too afraid to play ever....

I am always learning..... from watching at listening-.........I really do wonder sometimes!
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  #61  
Old 04-06-2009, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

Putting 3 pillows in your bass drum. Moving your head excessively faking that youre excited just to look like travis barker.
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  #62  
Old 04-06-2009, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Originally Posted by mrchattr View Post
Then there's the fact that a lot of beginners have horrible technique, so break gear quickly.

And we also see a good number of threads on here from new drummers who can't get their awesome, top-end kits, to sound ok, and think it is the kit's problem, instead of realizing that they just don't know how to tune it.
Thats why I got a teacher that taught me good technique, one of the few things he did teach me.
I can get a fairly decent sound from my CB kit, I just applied my self and picked up a tuning key and started tuning my drums. Maybe it's due to the fact I love buying and tuning new heads.
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  #63  
Old 04-06-2009, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

An amateur pitfall that comes to mind I haven't seen yet: NOT discussing the money aspect of a gig or project. Make sure there's a clear written understanding about your compensation. I wouldn't dream of working without a written agreement in my day job. Why would somebody assume the money will somehow take care of itself ? Just a thought.
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  #64  
Old 04-06-2009, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

Poor posture, stick handling that may lead to carpal tunnel.
Idolizing 1 single drummer and not being open minded to learn from others.
Thinking that because you can play "run to the hills" on expert level in Guitar Hero makes you a badass.
Lining up gigs before your band is ready to play out.
Not understanding how to set up your drumset.
Buying an off-brand set of drums, brand new, instead of a used name brand set
Playing drums for the wrong reasons ie.- to impress girls.
Being inconsiderate to roommates, family and neighbors with your playing schedule
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  #65  
Old 04-06-2009, 11:30 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Originally Posted by sk8erpnkmt369 View Post
Number one thing. more drums/cymbals DO NOT = better drummer/playing.
Even more important imo - better/more expensive gear DOES NOT = better playing.
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  #66  
Old 04-06-2009, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Let's start a list of things amateurs do, you know, like playing a fill every 4 bars, so the newer drummers here can read them and try to avoid them.
I'll start.
Ending every fill with a crash.
I think it's cool to not "end" a fill with a crash, but just go right back to the beat.
Any others?
Very seldom do I end a roll with a crash. Good to tell new drummers not to play rolls every 8 bars.

The listener will get tired of hearing them and they will be too predictable.

Dan
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  #67  
Old 04-07-2009, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Good to tell new drummers not to play rolls every 8 bars.

The listener will get tired of hearing them and they will be too predictable.
And what about Keith Moon? I think playing smaller fills and more subtle ones (like a cool ghost note type thing along with a hihat fill) can be very cool. And its possible to still be unpredictable with the right choice of dynamic contrast and effects.

One pet peeve of mine is when the new guys don't know of any of the great drumming legends. They think a more modern alternative drummer is amazing, or someone like Travis Barker. He's alright and plays well for what fits in a song, but hes way overrated. Many older drummers blow him out of the water.
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  #68  
Old 04-07-2009, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

don't drink the headliner's rider...
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  #69  
Old 04-07-2009, 11:52 AM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

don't let the girlfriend tell you to quit the band.
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  #70  
Old 04-07-2009, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Originally Posted by DrummerDavid View Post
don't let the girlfriend tell you to quit the band.
and don't bring her to band practice!!

anyways, i think that we as observers are going to be unable to find "mistakes" in other people's drumming, or on any instrument for that matter, because everything can collectively be wrote off as 'creativity' or 'that was my interpretation of it' and on and on. the only time an actual mistake happens is when you are doing something that wasn't what you intended to do. and even this at times isn't really a mistake becuase, like stated earlier, that 'mistake' may fit perfectly and then (to steal the quote) mistakes breed creativity. but you are really the ONLY person who is going to 'know' it was a mistake(cept maybe your fellow band mates). depending on your level of humility or pride will determine if you left other people in on the secret.

when actually watching someone else you can obivously observe a lack of technique, a repetiveness in the beat, maybe a missed cymbal, or n00bness. but these can be fixed over time and remedied when the person responsible is made aware of such deficiencies by either a friendly suggestion or even them becoming self-aware. (i find some type of recording or video of them playing shown to said individual works wonders).

at least thats my take on it. but seriously, keep your significant others out of the practice space! that's sacred ground and they do nothing but distract the frickin guitar player with googly eyes and adjustments of the breast so that he misses all his damned cues!!! ...oh...wait, i think i'm having a flashback.
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  #71  
Old 04-07-2009, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Originally Posted by schist View Post
Buying an elaborate top-line kit/setup after only playing for 6 months and still sounding like a n00b drummer
If it weren't for people who did that, most drum companies would be out of business.


Although if said noob drummer buys said kit, records a drum solo and then posts it to youtube, well, then I think you're on to something. LOL.
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  #72  
Old 04-30-2009, 08:45 AM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

To use heavily dampened heads, in a High end kit, and swearing by them, because they gives them the illusion they are sounding like the tune in the radio, some call it the studio sound, its the cardboard sound, if you ask me.

Amateurs play for themselves, professionals play for an audience, and one need to be aware of how that audience is receiving that sound, acoustically or amplified.

Many, after the gig, go out and celebrate how good they sounded, without even asking anyone how was their sound. They think they already know, because they do not realize that the sound from the throne is never the same in front, at 3, 5,10, 20 or 50 feet away.

To not be aware of how one sounds, from the audience perspective, IMHO, is the biggest, most frequent mistake many amateurs do, because, this is indeed a mistake.

Some even refuse head selection and tuning advise, because they think they sound great and they already know everything there has to be learned about drum sound and tuning. Tuning is a complex Science, and one tuning or head choice, do not works on every situation. No oil filled head, or metal ring integrated head, will take care of, or replace good tuning and playing technique.

Experience will get you there but there must be a humble attitude and the willingness to learn, which a lot of new comers do not have. I am a sponge, and after being playing and tuning for over 25 years, I still try to learn from more experienced and more proficient drummers, because once you think you know enough, right there you will stop learning.

This have to do also with overplaying, volume, technique, tuning, taste, dynamics, every aspect of a drummer's sound. So, for me, it is lack of self awareness, the most commonly done mistake made by amateurs and newbies, just IMHO!

Cheers!


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  #73  
Old 04-30-2009, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

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Originally Posted by mrchattr View Post
I think the biggest pitfall that amatures fall into is not focusing on some of the true building blocks...learning proper snare drum technique (including rudiments), learing how to read, etc. All of this helps your development tremendously. It's one reason that lessons are such a great idea.
I would like to reiterate the importance of being able to read music; a critical skill.

GJS
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  #74  
Old 04-30-2009, 01:42 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

Here are a few mistakes I have made:

1) Jamming rather than formal practicing. While playing along to your favorite song is fun and can help to improve your skills, it should be supplemented with a formal practicing regimen. That is, open a drum book and practice the lessons.

2) Haphazzard approach to skill development: Keep track of your practice and plan future practice in a note book. Sounds a bit anal, but many top drummers and musicians at some point in their development wrote down what they were doing and planned future practice.

Completing points 1 & 2 is hard work; but with hard work, you can quickly improve your musical ability. If you want to become a great drummer, then do what great drummers do.

3) Focusing only on the drum kit: Learn hand drumming to complement your kit drumming skill set. This can not only develop your sense of timing and rhythm, but it can also expose you to other forms of music such as Latin, African, Middle Eastern, etc. You can purchase inexpensive frame drums like a tar or bendir for less than $100. You can buy a top of the line djembe (Drumskull for example) for $600. A great set of congas can be had for $500 to $1000+.

Take care everyone!

GJS
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  #75  
Old 04-30-2009, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

• When you're trying to teach a beginner student and instead of listening to what you're telling him he's fiddleing with the hi-hat and making noise on the snare.

• When you're trying to teach a student to do the groove or fill slowly for a while, they start slowly and then go into hyperdrive where they don't know what the heck they're hitting and they think they're being the bestest drummer in da werld and that they're only good when they go fast...


...then you try to tell them to stop but they're too loud and that goes back to point one so I grab the sticks away and tell them "NO! BAD DRUMMER"!
...I have deepseated emotional issues when it comes to teaching...
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  #76  
Old 05-12-2009, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

Bringing a girlfriend to practice sessions is a pretty amateur mistake. There's one that stops by my place with my rhythm guitarist and she makes it pretty hard to jam. Always demanding his attention in between songs and constantly causing him to leave early to tend to her. ....its pretty frustrating
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:31 PM
ace76543 ace76543 is offline
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavelength View Post
I'd hardly call that a mistake. Jumping right into the high-end is cheaper than going through multiple rounds of equipment upgrades. Besides, why shouldn't a beginner play a quality instrument if he can afford it?
Because chances are they'll damage it. You don't buy a ferrari as your first car. why? you'll crash it. same thing with drums
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:50 AM
Meat the beat Meat the beat is offline
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

Well I didn't know I was in the company of such greatness!
Surely as Pro's you should be ambassadors for drumming? Does this not include actually ENCOURAGING "young", "new", "n00B", & amateur players to aspire to your greatness & hopefully not to your pomposity?

Wonder what the "real" pro's think....? Guess they're all out working :-)
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:10 AM
zafrothunder zafrothunder is offline
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat the beat View Post
Well I didn't know I was in the company of such greatness!
Surely as Pro's you should be ambassadors for drumming? Does this not include actually ENCOURAGING "young", "new", "n00B", & amateur players to aspire to your greatness & hopefully not to your pomposity?

Wonder what the "real" pro's think....? Guess they're all out working :-)
only reason I got into drumming is because I heard a Nirvana song and how easy it was. I was just like "I can do that."

I would tell an amateur player that bleeding on your set isn't necessarily a bad thing...If anything its a symbol of your commitment to your instrument!

Not talking from experience or anything
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:41 AM
John Galt John Galt is offline
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Default Re: Amateur Mistakes

I think the theme of this thread has been hijacked!!!
IMHO, the thread was determined as being those mistakes that beginners make and thus, how they might avoid them. And, I'll venture further, that this was determined to be in terms of drumming as opposed to any other set of unmentioned criteria.
Instead it appears to have become the pet peeves of more senior drummers.
What on earth has buying a good set of drums at the outset or a set of Bosphorous cymbals got to do with being a better drummer?
Or being inconsiderate to neighbours, roommates etc?.......and then advocating that beginners dont practice enough!
Surely, constructive comments are required as this stage of the journey.


PS...............I own a brand new set of Yamaha Tour Customs, Bosphorous cymbals all round, 4 different set of sticks, any number of books from Syncopation to Art of Bop drumming, music stands, and have just bought a powered monitor to hear the backing tracks, and an HD camera to record my practice sessions.
All this after 6 months of practice.

I am guilty as charged of all the mentioned mortal sins. I lie here prostrate and beg for forgiveness, I am a beginner and I know not!!!
Please cast me out from the immortal crew here at Drummerworld!!!
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