DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 11-02-2014, 05:42 PM
shemp's Avatar
shemp shemp is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 872
Default Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

I ran across some drum tracks that did not hit me as being great before I went to learn them.....when I did go to learn them, I found they were more challenging than I expected and also super friggen cool....

Here are a few I find deceptively challenging....And also just great, fun to play drum tracks:

Cheap Sunglasses, ZZ Top
Magician's Birthday, Uriah Heep

Don't say it's easy unless you are prepared to show a video of you playing it true to the original recording...nuance and all

Other mentions?
  #2  
Old 11-02-2014, 06:19 PM
Liebe zeit's Avatar
Liebe zeit Liebe zeit is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sheffield, UK
Posts: 714
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

Lately Junior Walker's Roadrunner and Stevie Wonder's Uptight have thrown me a curve ball.

They're not really difficult, just a bit odd compared to what I was used to. Lots of unison BD hits.
  #3  
Old 11-02-2014, 06:32 PM
BacteriumFendYoke's Avatar
BacteriumFendYoke BacteriumFendYoke is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canterbury. The One With the Cathedral.
Posts: 6,372
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

'Pyramid Song' by Radiohead. The drum entry is tough as nails to time properly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4isqpbe9Ew0

Drum entry around the two minute mark.
__________________
PEWFLADCC
  #4  
Old 11-02-2014, 06:35 PM
keep it simple's Avatar
keep it simple keep it simple is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20,836
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

This is the trap many fall into until they come to perform the piece, & I'm talking in a band setting, not just play along. It's way more than the mechanics, & it's usually the songs with simple parts - especially the slow stuff - that trips most drummers up big time. Somehow, the more complexed the part, the more there is to mask playing deficiencies. I know I'll get flamed for that, but it's what I find to be true quite often.
  #5  
Old 11-02-2014, 06:45 PM
shemp's Avatar
shemp shemp is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 872
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
This is the trap many fall into until they come to perform the piece, & I'm talking in a band setting, not just play along. It's way more than the mechanics, & it's usually the songs with simple parts - especially the slow stuff - that trips most drummers up big time. Somehow, the more complexed the part, the more there is to mask playing deficiencies. I know I'll get flamed for that, but it's what I find to be true quite often.
I agree Andy....this is one of the reasons I brought up this conversation. I enjoy the challenge of replicating a drum track as recorded and when you really dig in there, it's not as easy as originally surmised....and play along certainly masks the inadequacies cause the track is gluing it all together.

I find some Stan Lynch drum parts are also notorious in the deceptive category.
  #6  
Old 11-02-2014, 06:45 PM
BillRayDrums's Avatar
BillRayDrums BillRayDrums is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Lower California
Posts: 1,259
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

I'm doing something kinda like "Drum covers" but using artists' tracks who are otherwise not widely known to the world.

One of the standards I set for myself is to be able to play along to the track without a click track present. Really gets you in touch with your personal ebb and flow.

I played four tunes in front of a live club audience last weekend and it was so well received that I'm starting to book myself as a single act. :D


A couple of the tracks here have an accompanying guitarist (the composer, Mike Watson) so that's even more challenging in ways. :D

http://opium.rocks/

Also please go give the Facebook page a good likin'. :D
https://www.facebook.com/opiumrocks
__________________
~

Best Regards,
13612
Bill Ray
http://billraydrums.com
  #7  
Old 11-02-2014, 06:53 PM
BacteriumFendYoke's Avatar
BacteriumFendYoke BacteriumFendYoke is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canterbury. The One With the Cathedral.
Posts: 6,372
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
This is the trap many fall into until they come to perform the piece, & I'm talking in a band setting, not just play along. It's way more than the mechanics, & it's usually the songs with simple parts - especially the slow stuff - that trips most drummers up big time. Somehow, the more complexed the part, the more there is to mask playing deficiencies. I know I'll get flamed for that, but it's what I find to be true quite often.
Time to cite 'Comfortably Numb' again? That song in an absolute arse to play well. Nowhere to hide.
__________________
PEWFLADCC
  #8  
Old 11-02-2014, 08:39 PM
BillRayDrums's Avatar
BillRayDrums BillRayDrums is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Lower California
Posts: 1,259
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Time to cite 'Comfortably Numb' again? That song in an absolute arse to play well. Nowhere to hide.
Play the song for what it is. The song.

PS- Dug up an old performance of Comfortably Numb. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN8uwy0StnM
__________________
~

Best Regards,
13612
Bill Ray
http://billraydrums.com
  #9  
Old 11-03-2014, 01:29 AM
JustJames's Avatar
JustJames JustJames is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 3,168
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
I ran across some drum tracks that did not hit me as being great before I went to learn them.....when I did go to learn them, I found they were more challenging than I expected and also super friggen cool....

Other mentions?
The correct answer to this question is pretty much every drum track that there is.

Recording drummers add all sorts of tasty little morsels in even the most basic of grooves. In my limited experience of listening to and attempting songs, pretty much everything I've tackled has had layers of nuance that I'd never noticed before a properly critical listening.

Here's a f'rinstance. Chris Isaak's "Wicked Game". Cursory first impression: Kick on 1 and "and-3", Snare on 2 and 4.

First layer: Snare gets moved around a bit.

Second layer: There are some very tasty flourishes on the hats.

...and there are prolly other bits that I still haven't spotted.

And then there's the phenomenon that KIS has identified: The ability to play the simplest, sparsest of grooves with authority.
__________________
  #10  
Old 11-03-2014, 01:34 AM
shemp's Avatar
shemp shemp is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 872
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJames View Post
The correct answer to this question is pretty much every drum track that there is.

Recording drummers add all sorts of tasty little morsels in even the most basic of grooves. In my limited experience of listening to and attempting songs, pretty much everything I've tackled has had layers of nuance that I'd never noticed before a properly critical listening.

Here's a f'rinstance. Chris Isaak's "Wicked Game". Cursory first impression: Kick on 1 and "and-3", Snare on 2 and 4.

First layer: Snare gets moved around a bit.

Second layer: There are some very tasty flourishes on the hats.

...and there are prolly other bits that I still haven't spotted.

And then there's the phenomenon that KIS has identified: The ability to play the simplest, sparsest of grooves with authority.
excellent observation....i agree in many instances
  #11  
Old 11-03-2014, 07:20 AM
Anon La Ply's Avatar
Anon La Ply Anon La Ply is offline
Renegade
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cyberspace
Posts: 5,512
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

Agree James. Chris Isaac has a crack band. Kenney Dale Johnson is a classy drummer.

Beatles songs are notorious for being harder than they seem.

Anything with Jim Keltner on drums - whatever he does, no matter how simple, he plays with great timing, tone, dynamics and authority. Ditto Steve Jordan. It's one thing to play a part, another the play them like they do.
__________________
Soundcloud
  #12  
Old 11-03-2014, 08:17 AM
keep it simple's Avatar
keep it simple keep it simple is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 20,836
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillRayDrums View Post
Play the song for what it is. The song.

PS- Dug up an old performance of Comfortably Numb. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN8uwy0StnM
Ok, this is where I tread on very dangerous ground - criticising the performance of a player many levels above my ability, but with caveats ;)

Bill, as a performance of a song you & the band clearly enjoyed playing in a bar context, that was great. It's a bit of fun, & if I was in the audience, I'd accept it as in that vein. In terms of playing such that the original feel (not necessarily the parts) is retained, that jumped into that big ol' black hole of overplaying. It's the kind of song where you can get away with embellishment somewhere from mid of the end solo to the outro, but not in the body of the song.

Just about every attempt I hear (outside of deliberate tribute) starts with a ride groove. I get why, it's our automatic default when we want that open drift of a pulse, but the verse starts on hats, & that's the first tough call right there. It's exposing, unnervingly naked. The second default mode I always notice is either played or implied 16th notes. I get why, it's much easier to keep time/flow, but it injects a joyousness that doesn't exist in the vibe. Keeping 8th notes whilst reinforcing (gently) that 1/4 note pulse is the tough road.

"Comfortably Numb" is a song that works by managing the ebb & flow of undercurrents, sour mixed with sweet, deep despair mixed with elation. For all members of a band, it's a tough deal, but for the drummer, it's one of the toughest I know. Delivering this song verbatim is difficult enough, but keeping all the key elements in place plus "making it your own" is one of the hardest gigs out there IMHO.

I hope you accept my thoughts in the spirit they're offered Bill :)

Andy.


EDIT: Random example I stumbled across. Hear how seamlessly the drums blend with the string arpeggio - NOT!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skwruvvbz2o

.

Last edited by keep it simple; 11-03-2014 at 09:42 AM.
  #13  
Old 11-03-2014, 12:45 PM
BacteriumFendYoke's Avatar
BacteriumFendYoke BacteriumFendYoke is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Canterbury. The One With the Cathedral.
Posts: 6,372
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

What was he thinking, putting an extra hit in the main groove? That's bloody awful. The harmonies sounded like cats wailing and the guitar tones were cold and lifeless. Christ on a bike that was something else.
__________________
PEWFLADCC
  #14  
Old 11-03-2014, 01:17 PM
Mad About Drums's Avatar
Mad About Drums Mad About Drums is offline
Pollyanna's Agent
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shropshire, UK
Posts: 6,227
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
This is the trap many fall into until they come to perform the piece, & I'm talking in a band setting, not just play along. It's way more than the mechanics, & it's usually the songs with simple parts...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
It's one thing to play a part, another to play them like they do.
Totally agree with you, AC/DC songs are a prime example, deceptively simple to play (on paper) but to make it groove like Phil Rudd is a challenge that I have yet to achieve.

Also agree with Andy, it's easier to play a more complex drum part, at least easier to bluff your way through, in a simple drum track you have nowhere to hide and you cannot cheat your way through.
__________________
I'm Swissman
  #15  
Old 11-03-2014, 02:48 PM
ron s's Avatar
ron s ron s is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 189
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

I agree with the post that said pretty much every drum track. The reason I agree is that if you are covering another drummer's part, unless you have it written out on charts that were exactly transcribed (even then, can you exactly replicate another person's "feel")-you are attempting to play what someone else played on a particular studio take.
My bar band covers mostly 60's through 90's covers. I try to learn the song as exactly as my limited skills will allow, but I noticed that as time goes on and we play the new song every set, I tend to unconsciously put my own feel into the song. We stick to the original arrangement, but I can't seem to "hold" the exact copy version in my head.
I'm not saying that I totally play whatever I want, but sometimes I'll hear a song on the radio and realize that I am doing a different fill that fits the part, but I am no longer doing the fill that is on the original recording. Signature fills of course must be done.

Whenever I see bands live (except for Rush) they never play the song as faithfully to the original recording as a good tribute band does. I guess since they wrote it, they can mess with it as they see fit.

My point is , it is very difficult to mimic another drummer's part that was layed down at a place in time. The deeper you delve into the subtleties, the more and more difficult it becomes.
  #16  
Old 11-03-2014, 05:24 PM
shemp's Avatar
shemp shemp is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 872
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Ok, this is where I tread on very dangerous ground - criticising
the performance of a player many levels above my ability, but with caveats ;)

Bill, as a performance of a song you & the band clearly enjoyed playing in a bar context, that was great. It's a bit of fun, & if I was in the audience, I'd accept it as in that vein. In terms of playing such that the original feel (not necessarily the parts) is retained, that jumped into that big ol' black hole of overplaying. It's the kind of song where you can get away with embellishment somewhere from mid of the end solo to the outro, but not in the body of the song.

Just about every attempt I hear (outside of deliberate tribute) starts with a ride groove. I get why, it's our automatic default when we want that open drift of a pulse, but the verse starts on hats, & that's the first tough call right there. It's exposing, unnervingly naked. The second default mode I always notice is either played or implied 16th notes. I get why, it's much easier to keep time/flow, but it injects a joyousness that doesn't exist in the vibe. Keeping 8th notes whilst reinforcing (gently) that 1/4 note pulse is the tough road.

"Comfortably Numb" is a song that works by managing the ebb & flow of undercurrents, sour mixed with sweet, deep despair mixed with elation. For all members of a band, it's a tough deal, but for the drummer, it's one of the toughest I know. Delivering this song verbatim is difficult enough, but keeping all the key elements in place plus "making it your own" is one of the hardest gigs out there IMHO.

I hope you accept my thoughts in the spirit they're offered Bill :)

Andy.


EDIT: Random example I stumbled across. Hear how seamlessly the drums blend with the string arpeggio - NOT!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skwruvvbz2o

.
technical facility does not mean good. Just because one has a certain technical ability does not mean they are a good drummer....showing off in a basic yet determined song is not good drumming, period.

I agree with your comments andy, but you were a bit too forgiving....poor drumming is drumming that speaks too much or does not speak with time, feel and rhythm....technical drumming is not good drumming....it steps on the song and that is why we are here in the first place
  #17  
Old 11-03-2014, 08:16 PM
uhtrinity's Avatar
uhtrinity uhtrinity is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 218
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
Time to cite 'Comfortably Numb' again? That song in an absolute arse to play well. Nowhere to hide.
I agree!! Just had this conversation last week as it has been one of our troublesome covers. The energy for the opening half comes from the guitars / vocals, the drums are just sorta along for the ride with a basic, slow, bare beat. Things change when the song shifts to instrumental and then you can open up on the drums.
__________________
Facebook
  #18  
Old 11-03-2014, 08:40 PM
Smoke Smoke is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lansing, MI, USA
Posts: 635
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

You may have an absolute ball with Linda Ronstadt's version of "Love is a Rose."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2r8cAyvEo

I'm pretty sure it's Russ Kunkle on drums. Easy to follow but tough to imitate.
  #19  
Old 11-03-2014, 09:19 PM
WhoIsTony?'s Avatar
WhoIsTony? WhoIsTony? is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: the city that never sleeps
Posts: 34
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

Steely Dan - Kid Charlemagne

Bernard Purdie is among those guys like , Keltner, Gadd, Porcaro , Moratta , Gordon , etc .... that have a feel that is just really hard to cop .
it is in their blood and bones

anyway.... here is me failing at it quite miserably

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukIs...ki46TTo17GtNDw
  #20  
Old 11-04-2014, 02:35 AM
BillRayDrums's Avatar
BillRayDrums BillRayDrums is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Lower California
Posts: 1,259
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Ok, this is where I tread on very dangerous ground - criticising the performance of a player many levels above my ability, but with caveats ;)

Bill, as a performance of a song you & the band clearly enjoyed playing in a bar context, that was great. It's a bit of fun, & if I was in the audience, I'd accept it as in that vein. In terms of playing such that the original feel (not necessarily the parts) is retained, that jumped into that big ol' black hole of overplaying. It's the kind of song where you can get away with embellishment somewhere from mid of the end solo to the outro, but not in the body of the song.

Just about every attempt I hear (outside of deliberate tribute) starts with a ride groove. I get why, it's our automatic default when we want that open drift of a pulse, but the verse starts on hats, & that's the first tough call right there. It's exposing, unnervingly naked. The second default mode I always notice is either played or implied 16th notes. I get why, it's much easier to keep time/flow, but it injects a joyousness that doesn't exist in the vibe. Keeping 8th notes whilst reinforcing (gently) that 1/4 note pulse is the tough road.

"Comfortably Numb" is a song that works by managing the ebb & flow of undercurrents, sour mixed with sweet, deep despair mixed with elation. For all members of a band, it's a tough deal, but for the drummer, it's one of the toughest I know. Delivering this song verbatim is difficult enough, but keeping all the key elements in place plus "making it your own" is one of the hardest gigs out there IMHO.

I hope you accept my thoughts in the spirit they're offered Bill :)

Andy.


EDIT: Random example I stumbled across. Hear how seamlessly the drums blend with the string arpeggio - NOT!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skwruvvbz2o

.

Thanks for the "pressure check!" I like to start that tune with a ride cymbal because it stirs the air with its silky flow.

As for the deboning I seem to have received further up this thread by another, thing is I got paid at the end of the night for "bad drumming". Quite well I think, because that gig was a bit of a hike from my doorstep. :D

I play how I play and people seem to enjoy what comes out of my brain so I guess I'ma keep on doing it.
__________________
~

Best Regards,
13612
Bill Ray
http://billraydrums.com
Old 11-04-2014, 03:27 AM
shemp
This message has been deleted by shemp.
  #21  
Old 11-04-2014, 04:03 AM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,365
Default Re: Deceptively cool and challenging drum tracks...

Closed upon request of the OP
__________________
Johnny. Pictured left to right, Bermuda, Weird Al, Grunt.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com