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Old 09-26-2016, 10:56 PM
Bamadrummer88 Bamadrummer88 is offline
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Default Double Bass Problems

I know this thread has been covered before, but I thought I'd post my own particular problem, because I really need help. My max range on double bass is 16ths is about 110 bpm. I can hit 120, but I'm all over the place when I do. Accidental flamming, my feet are sliding all over the pedals, and it's just really hard to keep the tempo for more than a couple of measures. What is everyones opinion on this? Basically, I need to increase speed and control, but I'm not sure of the best way of doing it. I would eventually like to get up to extreme metal speeds, at 200+ bpm, plus complicated footwork as in Lamb of God and Meshuggah. I know this could take months, years, etc., to get up to, but I want to at least get on the right track for it. Thanks for any and all help
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  #2  
Old 09-27-2016, 03:54 AM
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lefty2 lefty2 is offline
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Default Re: Double Bass Problems

My advise is watch a lot of videos on the subject on youtube. Then play your butt off. If you're in an area where there are some good teachers, that would be your best bet. Learn it right from the get go. There are a lot of techniques on the bass drum pedal. Most of them are legitamate. I've got some questions for you. How long have you been playing? What technique are you using? Heel up, and heel down, are the most common. It may take many yrs. to get good. I've been working on it for many yrs. myself and still not up to 200.
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Old 09-27-2016, 04:58 AM
Bamadrummer88 Bamadrummer88 is offline
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Default Re: Double Bass Problems

I'm 28, and I've been playing off and on since I was about 10. In the last 2 years I started dedicating myself and practicing everyday, and in the past few months have been practicing double bass. I'm using heel up for the lower speeds, and plan on using ankles when I get to higher speeds.
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Old 09-27-2016, 05:04 AM
Bamadrummer88 Bamadrummer88 is offline
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Default Re: Double Bass Problems

As far as teachers go, they're pretty much nonexistent in my small town, so I'm pretty much self-taught at the moment.
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Old 09-27-2016, 05:22 AM
bud7h4 bud7h4 is offline
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Default Re: Double Bass Problems

Spend some of your practice routine working one foot at a time, particularly your weak foot, obviously. You won't gain speed and control until both feet feel natural on the pedals.

Play slightly under your max speed for long periods (3 to 5 minutes works fine for me).

Get the feel for 16th triplets as well as 16th notes. This really boosted my speed and control.
For example keeping your foot speed the same, but alternate from 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 to 1 2 3 1 2 3

Remember your legs and ankles work differently at various speeds. Trying to play 16ths at 200 bpm with the same full-leg motion you use to play 120 is futile.

It takes time. It took me about 3 years to go from no double bass experience to 200 bpm. After that it only took about a year to play comfortably at 270.

As far as complex footwork, it's really important to find the right seat height and position, to get good balance so you don't feel like you're having to lift your leg(s) from a resting position.

Last edited by bud7h4; 09-27-2016 at 05:38 AM.
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Old 09-27-2016, 06:39 PM
beyondbetrayal beyondbetrayal is offline
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Default Re: Double Bass Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamadrummer88 View Post
I know this thread has been covered before, but I thought I'd post my own particular problem, because I really need help. My max range on double bass is 16ths is about 110 bpm. I can hit 120, but I'm all over the place when I do. Accidental flamming, my feet are sliding all over the pedals, and it's just really hard to keep the tempo for more than a couple of measures. What is everyones opinion on this? Basically, I need to increase speed and control, but I'm not sure of the best way of doing it. I would eventually like to get up to extreme metal speeds, at 200+ bpm, plus complicated footwork as in Lamb of God and Meshuggah. I know this could take months, years, etc., to get up to, but I want to at least get on the right track for it. Thanks for any and all help



200 BPM double kick isn't something you will even accomplish in a year or most likely 2. Just reading you have been only doing it a few months.

That said, You can and WILL get there if you practice. but you have to be prepared to put in time and play a serious practice schedule.

Try increasing 1 bpm every day and playing for about 10 minutes of straight 16th notes. maybe try some para diddles on the feet and some rudiments for learning control. If it isn't 100% perfect slow down until it is...

if you did 1 bpm every 2 days lets say starting at 100, you would be at 200 in less than a year. but you will plateau, and spend longer.. 100-150 should go fast.. once you get moving faster it takes longer to squeeze out a few bpm.


pedal settings make a big difference too... set everything in the middle and make SMALL adjustments, try it for a day or 2 and then decide.. if you start out at max spring tension like you see guys tell you online, good luck.. your going to burn your legs out fast..

I do singles to about 220, where i switch to heel toe. I used to go to 230 but playing live I'd burn my legs out all the time. So I can give you some advice and I know what I'm saying.

I assume your 110 isn't even 100% tight if your failing at 120... slow it down.. tight > fast anyday of the week
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Old 09-28-2016, 12:33 AM
bud7h4 bud7h4 is offline
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Default Re: Double Bass Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyondbetrayal View Post

I assume your 110 isn't even 100% tight if your failing at 120... slow it down.. tight > fast any day of the week
Very true.

Playing cleanly under your max speed actually helps "unlock" higher speeds much better than playing uncomfortably and sloppy at your max speed.

Practicing with bad technique only leads to being better at using bad technique.
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Old 09-29-2016, 03:14 AM
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lefty2 lefty2 is offline
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Default Re: Double Bass Problems

Hey Bammadrummer, you should look up Derek Roddy on here. He's like a master metal player. There have been some great conversations about the problem you're having. I think he advocates playing beyond what you can play accurately. Just pushing it further even though you can't do it yet, and your body will figure it out after a while. There are lots of opinions that differ even from the pros. but he is one of the top pros IMO.
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  #9  
Old 09-29-2016, 05:08 AM
Bamadrummer88 Bamadrummer88 is offline
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Default Re: Double Bass Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyondbetrayal View Post
200 BPM double kick isn't something you will even accomplish in a year or most likely 2. Just reading you have been only doing it a few months.

That said, You can and WILL get there if you practice. but you have to be prepared to put in time and play a serious practice schedule.

Try increasing 1 bpm every day and playing for about 10 minutes of straight 16th notes. maybe try some para diddles on the feet and some rudiments for learning control. If it isn't 100% perfect slow down until it is...

if you did 1 bpm every 2 days lets say starting at 100, you would be at 200 in less than a year. but you will plateau, and spend longer.. 100-150 should go fast.. once you get moving faster it takes longer to squeeze out a few bpm.


pedal settings make a big difference too... set everything in the middle and make SMALL adjustments, try it for a day or 2 and then decide.. if you start out at max spring tension like you see guys tell you online, good luck.. your going to burn your legs out fast..

I do singles to about 220, where i switch to heel toe. I used to go to 230 but playing live I'd burn my legs out all the time. So I can give you some advice and I know what I'm saying.

I assume your 110 isn't even 100% tight if your failing at 120... slow it down.. tight > fast anyday of the week
I'll give your routine a go and yep even my 110 can be shaky. When I'm playing that speed I do tend to get very tense. Thanks for the suggestion
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  #10  
Old 09-29-2016, 05:10 AM
Bamadrummer88 Bamadrummer88 is offline
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Default Re: Double Bass Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by bud7h4 View Post
Very true.

Playing cleanly under your max speed actually helps "unlock" higher speeds much better than playing uncomfortably and sloppy at your max speed.

Practicing with bad technique only leads to being better at using bad technique.
Understood yeah I can't lie I was being impatient and shooting for speeds I'm not capable of yet. Time to start correcting that
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  #11  
Old 09-29-2016, 05:11 AM
Bamadrummer88 Bamadrummer88 is offline
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Default Re: Double Bass Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty2 View Post
Hey Bammadrummer, you should look up Derek Roddy on here. He's like a master metal player. There have been some great conversations about the problem you're having. I think he advocates playing beyond what you can play accurately. Just pushing it further even though you can't do it yet, and your body will figure it out after a while. There are lots of opinions that differ even from the pros. but he is one of the top pros IMO.
Good idea I'll hit him up also. Thanks for the suggestion
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  #12  
Old 09-29-2016, 05:18 AM
Bamadrummer88 Bamadrummer88 is offline
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Default Re: Double Bass Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by bud7h4 View Post
Spend some of your practice routine working one foot at a time, particularly your weak foot, obviously. You won't gain speed and control until both feet feel natural on the pedals.

Play slightly under your max speed for long periods (3 to 5 minutes works fine for me).

Get the feel for 16th triplets as well as 16th notes. This really boosted my speed and control.
For example keeping your foot speed the same, but alternate from 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 to 1 2 3 1 2 3

Remember your legs and ankles work differently at various speeds. Trying to play 16ths at 200 bpm with the same full-leg motion you use to play 120 is futile.

It takes time. It took me about 3 years to go from no double bass experience to 200 bpm. After that it only took about a year to play comfortably at 270.

As far as complex footwork, it's really important to find the right seat height and position, to get good balance so you don't feel like you're having to lift your leg(s) from a resting position.
Much appreciated I'll add that to my practice routine and see how that works for me
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