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  #41  
Old 08-07-2014, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
t hired me.

No rules in these things.....full steam ahead
Agreed. Shrug shoulders, move on, & if they get back to you, take a judgement at the time.

Good to have you chiming in shemp :)
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  #42  
Old 08-07-2014, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

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Originally Posted by AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken View Post
Pleased to know that Drummerworld is not exempt from the 'at least one utter douchebag per thread' rule. Don't you have puppies to kick?
How frightfully rude.
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Old 08-07-2014, 10:27 AM
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  #43  
Old 08-07-2014, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

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Originally Posted by whiteknightx View Post
Hell I went to an audition two summers ago, tried out, and they told me I had the gig, and to come back on Saturday, their normal practice day. And it wasn't 5 songs, we went through the entire set list. After the practice they told me they were going to look for someone else. It was harsh. Just learn from it, and keep moving on.
I've been in a group on keys that did that to a drummer. He played heaps better in the audition - much more disciplined. He overplayed heaps in that first practice and threw everyone off, especially our singer, and we knew we'd picked someone too soon.

I was the lucky one with the job of giving him the bad news and he gave me a real old fashioned rock'n'roll spray, which was actually pretty hilarious given that we were all civilised middle aged adults. It's as easy to revert to childhood dynamics in bands as it is when you visit parents :)

For the record, we ended up on okay terms. People get passionate about their music and often have their self esteem tied up with their playing, and that can result in some silly sh1t.

As you said, White Knight, you need a thick skin.
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  #44  
Old 08-07-2014, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

yeah, the only real difference was the bass player wasn't there for the audition, but he was there for the actual practice. I suspect it was him that didn't like me for whatever reason. I still talk to one of the guitar players on facebook from that band.

Last summer I think I auditioned for 8 different bands, and never got a bite, but learned a ton. Auditioning for drummers is a crazy experience at times. It's totally different than what other instruments seem to go through.

It all worked out in the end, I'm now playing in 3 different bands, and am the backup in 3 others with friends of mine when their drummer is unavailable.
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  #45  
Old 08-07-2014, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

I've got a tale from the other side of the coin that helps illustrate just how whimsical choosing a band mate can be.

I was in a band for a few years with two brothers; we had a bass player who started out merely adequate, and morphed into useless due to drug use. He was let go and we started looking for a replacement.

By that time we'd gotten a bit of a name about town, and we were fortunate enough to have some excellent bass players audition for us. Truthfully, I thought a couple of the guys were slumming it by jamming with us - they'd been in fantastic bands that I was familiar with, and they had absolutely no problem with our tunes.

The brothers I played with were the founders and leaders of the band, so they made the final selection. And who did they choose?

A guy who was a lesser bass player, but also a less forceful personality. As was made clear to me later on, these guys wanted to be sure that whoever they added to the band, the new member would be submissive and easy to push around. (The main reason I left the band a few years later - but that's another story...)

We went with a lesser talent in order to comply with the psychological hang-ups of the band leaders. They didn't want to be challenged - period. They were willing to sacrifice the band's sound in order to retain complete control of the band. The guy they settled on wasn't terrible by any means, but we'd auditioned some really top-notch musicians - and they were all passed over merely because they weren't supplicating peons.

(I ran into some of the other auditioners over the next few months and each one was really gracious about the whole thing, but I couldn't help but let them know how disappointed I was with the whole process, and was sure to let them know how much I enjoyed playing with them. They all seemed to appreciate the sentiment.)

So long story short, ATCNAT, don't let it get to you. You simply never know the underlying reason for why a band chooses or passes on a potential member, and very often it has nothing to do with the playing. There's a chance you scared the shit out of the rhythm guitar player, or you reminded the bass player of his step-father, etc. These are musicians we're talking about, after all - there are mental defects a-plenty among this population subset.
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  #46  
Old 08-07-2014, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

Great post Phil and I've seen exactly what you are describing. Some leaders want submissive guys. I do believe bands should have leaders. And leaders get to run their band as they please. Secure people surround themselves with great players and use their ideas. Insecure people want yes men and church mice as sidemen. Kind of a general statement with many exceptions I'm sure, but there it is.
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  #47  
Old 08-07-2014, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Great post Phil
Agreed! I may be going through that process soon, not sure - certainly in a position of flux, & I'm not really in control of it. Band "fit" is often the biggest factor of all, especially outside of a 100% professional environment.
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  #48  
Old 08-08-2014, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Agreed! I may be going through that process soon, not sure - certainly in a position of flux, & I'm not really in control of it. Band "fit" is often the biggest factor of all, especially outside of a 100% professional environment.
I know of a really good band in the UK All Fired Down..or Up I cant remember, but the drummer ( more of an amature sound guy at best) is a real grumpy old coot and flat out refuses to get along with anyone. He shows up with a 4 beer buzz at a minimum and takes too much time setting up and tuig ( some kind of slurred Bob Gatzen rant under his breath the whole time). Its prima-donna types like this, that give the rest of us in a band a bad name. Maybe you know him Andy?
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  #49  
Old 08-08-2014, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

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Originally Posted by The Old Hyde View Post
I know of a really good band in the UK All Fired Down..or Up I cant remember, but the drummer ( more of an amature sound guy at best) is a real grumpy old coot and flat out refuses to get along with anyone. He shows up with a 4 beer buzz at a minimum and takes too much time setting up and tuig ( some kind of slurred Bob Gatzen rant under his breath the whole time). Its prima-donna types like this, that give the rest of us in a band a bad name. Maybe you know him Andy?
I know him well. He completely ignores Bob Gatzen & tunes remotely from the bar. His only signature technique involves highly animated chime stroking. The only reason that band keep him is because he owns a trailer. Amazed he passed an audition actually. Shame, great band - they could easily attract someone who can actually play ;)
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  #50  
Old 08-08-2014, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by philrudd View Post
I've got a tale from the other side of the coin that helps illustrate just how whimsical choosing a band mate can be.

I was in a band for a few years with two brothers; we had a bass player who started out merely adequate, and morphed into useless due to drug use. He was let go and we started looking for a replacement.

By that time we'd gotten a bit of a name about town, and we were fortunate enough to have some excellent bass players audition for us. Truthfully, I thought a couple of the guys were slumming it by jamming with us - they'd been in fantastic bands that I was familiar with, and they had absolutely no problem with our tunes.

The brothers I played with were the founders and leaders of the band, so they made the final selection. And who did they choose?

A guy who was a lesser bass player, but also a less forceful personality. As was made clear to me later on, these guys wanted to be sure that whoever they added to the band, the new member would be submissive and easy to push around. (The main reason I left the band a few years later - but that's another story...)

We went with a lesser talent in order to comply with the psychological hang-ups of the band leaders. They didn't want to be challenged - period. They were willing to sacrifice the band's sound in order to retain complete control of the band. The guy they settled on wasn't terrible by any means, but we'd auditioned some really top-notch musicians - and they were all passed over merely because they weren't supplicating peons.

(I ran into some of the other auditioners over the next few months and each one was really gracious about the whole thing, but I couldn't help but let them know how disappointed I was with the whole process, and was sure to let them know how much I enjoyed playing with them. They all seemed to appreciate the sentiment.)

So long story short, ATCNAT, don't let it get to you. You simply never know the underlying reason for why a band chooses or passes on a potential member, and very often it has nothing to do with the playing. There's a chance you scared the shit out of the rhythm guitar player, or you reminded the bass player of his step-father, etc. These are musicians we're talking about, after all - there are mental defects a-plenty among this population subset.
This is great. Very insightful. I strongly agree with the conclusions drawn.
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  #51  
Old 08-08-2014, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

Sometimes it all boils down to bands just don't know or think through how to audition someone. Or egos get involved and they could care less how they treat the auditioners

I once went to an audition for a Chicago / Blood Sweat and Tears covers band - a horn band - and 1/2 the band wasn't there. No horns, no singers, and missing the rhythm guitar player. The lead guitar player took over singing (which he sucked at) and misses 1/2 the guitar parts because he was too busy trying to sing. So it was me audtioning, the lead player, and the bass only and one groupie. How can you play Chicago or BST without the horn section? I was told the other band members had "prior commitments". Gee thanks fellas for wasting my time.

I'm glad I didn't get chosen because on their web site they showed pictures of past gigs and most every picture had a different drummer. And they advertized themselves as a "professional group of musicians". The flakes even formed an LLC - Limited Liability Company - and bragged about it as their business structure. I walked away thinking what do they need "limited liabilty" and the protection it provides, from? Is their music going to damage someone? Geez....
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  #52  
Old 08-08-2014, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue_drummer View Post
Sometimes it all boils down to bands just don't know or think through how to audition someone. Or egos get involved and they could care less how they treat the auditioners

I once went to an audition for a Chicago / Blood Sweat and Tears covers band - a horn band - and 1/2 the band wasn't there. No horns, no singers, and missing the rhythm guitar player. The lead guitar player took over singing (which he sucked at) and misses 1/2 the guitar parts because he was too busy trying to sing. So it was me audtioning, the lead player, and the bass only and one groupie. How can you play Chicago or BST without the horn section? I was told the other band members had "prior commitments". Gee thanks fellas for wasting my time.

I'm glad I didn't get chosen because on their web site they showed pictures of past gigs and most every picture had a different drummer. And they advertized themselves as a "professional group of musicians". The flakes even formed an LLC - Limited Liability Company - and bragged about it as their business structure. I walked away thinking what do they need "limited liabilty" and the protection it provides, from? Is their music going to damage someone? Geez....

It's actually more for tax purposes. I'm in the process of doing it (for the third time) because my current project is beginning to show a profit. When checks for performances are issued (especially from casinos) whoever cashes that check has to claim it as income. The band splits the money, of course, but the treasurer has to pay the taxes. For example, in the case of my band, checks that range from $1200 up to $7000. Checks of this size will quickly change the band treasurers tax bracket. The LLC allows you open a bank account under the band name and then file taxes as a corporation. It also allows for business expenses and even let's you write off a portion of your equipment expenses annually.

Last edited by The SunDog; 08-08-2014 at 10:17 PM.
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  #53  
Old 08-08-2014, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

It's actually more for tax purposes. I'm in the process of doing it (for the third time) because my current project is beginning to show a profit. When checks for performances are issued (especially from casinos) whoever cashes that check has to claim it as income. The band splits the money, of course, but the treasurer has to pay the taxes. For example, in the case of my band, checks that range from $1200 up to $7000. Checks of this size will quickly change the band treasurers tax bracket. The LLC allows you open a bank account under the band name and then file taxes as a corporation. It also allows for business expenses and even let's you write off a portion of your equipment expenses annually.


True, you're correct. I had forgotten depositing and splittting the proceeds under the LLC framework and tax consequences is a big part of it. Years ago I formed an LLC when I owned an outdoor advertising company that used inflatables to advertise because I wanted the asset protection the LLC offered and it was just me. Texas allows a single member LLC (or then it did) so I did the same thing the band did, opened a bank account under the LLC name, kept all the books, filed the state sales tax and LLC docs, etc.
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  #54  
Old 08-09-2014, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

Sorry. I hope I didn't insult you. I forget sometimes how many experienced and professional musicians I'm speaking with at any given time here at DW. And the humor in your post was not lost on me. "Is their music going to damage someone?". Hilarious! Not to mention advertising that they have an LLC. Very classy.
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  #55  
Old 08-09-2014, 07:47 AM
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Default Re: Bad Auditions

No insult in the least, SunDog! Not at all. I feel kinda like a dope because I forgot all about the tax opportunities / consequences the LLC organization offers, yet I lived that every day for several years. Go figure. Since I was running dynamic inflatables like Fly Guys, I had to worry about the liability if one somehow deflates and causes an accident.

Funny story, I had put up a 30 foot tall Fly Guy at a tiny liquor store out next to the street on the sidewalk since it was seen better by oncoming traffic. The clerk behind the counter was an off-duty police officer who was closely but informally monitoring where I set it - if I was breaking any laws, etc., which I appreciated. He asked if I was insured and I told him about my insurance and the LLC umbrella I was set up under. He then said if it deflated or the electric fans used to keep it inflated somehow got unplugged, it "probably wouldn't cause a car accident..." So all day long as I was offsite I focused on the word "probably" and was expecting to get a phone call any minute that my Fly Guy caused a multi-car pileup.
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