DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #41  
Old 04-03-2011, 06:33 AM
FelipeJose's Avatar
FelipeJose FelipeJose is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 40
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
It's nice to have seen Marshall see the writing on this wall. They were starting to crank out really good combo amps in the last decade or so. But I mixed a professional blues band and the guitarist shows up with a 2x10 Fender Princeton amp that he modified and I swear that little amp ripped my face off! I had to put a baffle up in front of it because he was too loud at "2". Amazing.
I love the sound of the Fender Princeton. Not sure how the guy mod'd it but those things are typically only 15 watts - not your standard "face ripping" tool...
__________________
myspace.com/sessioncollective

D'Amico Drums | Zildjian | Vater
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-03-2011, 08:32 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,870
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FelipeJose View Post
I love the sound of the Fender Princeton. Not sure how the guy mod'd it but those things are typically only 15 watts - not your standard "face ripping" tool...
Not sure what he did, either. But the band was great. The harp player had his own Fender Bassman and a bullet microphone and got the tone. He modded his output so it was extremely hot. It wouldn't have been so bad if you could dial in some low end, but it was literally that hot Fender mid-to-high-range sound now piercingly loud. For the whole first set I shut the amp mic off. After I put the baffle up, everything was fine - I stuck a Shure Beta 52 mic on the cabinet and eq'd in some low end and got him pretty growling. I'm thinking maybe he modded his transformer and it was cranking out more than 15W...
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-04-2011, 07:23 AM
24hoursplumber 24hoursplumber is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 5
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

I think the basic argument is that if you can play, not what you play the dishes. Probably shoulda 'just said that now, eh? Once again, I'm doing at this point that you start doing the work, not vice versa. But yes, I agree that the various stories about what the music calls for, but if you can not afford it, you should not think, you can not let it happen without it.
__________________
Plumber Services
Plumbing Services
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-06-2014, 08:51 PM
T.L.'s Avatar
T.L. T.L. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 211
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I think my basic argument is, if you can play, it shouldn't matter what cymbals you play. Probably shoulda' just said that outright, eh? Again, I'm making this point that you make the gear work, not the other way around. But yes, I agree about having different stuff for what the music calls for, but if you can't afford it, you shouldn't think you can't make it happen without it.
Personally, I do think that the cymbal matters.

I remember back about 10 years ago when I got my first Constantinople (with rivets) and on the first gig I played with it I'd been playing on my Thigpen flat ride for the head of the first tune and went to the Constantinople for the first solo and as soon as I touched the Constantinople the bass player yells "Yeah"...........

Some cymbals are just magic in the right situation.

I think that the focus on cymbals that some of us have is because in jazz -- as has been said before -- the ride cymbal really is our primary instrument.

(But Bo, I definitely agree with you on making things work... When I was 18 I used to play jazz trio gigs with one cymbal and hats -- a K Dark Crash and an old set of Zildjian A hats -- because that's all I could afford!).
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-06-2014, 09:18 PM
WhoIsTony?'s Avatar
WhoIsTony? WhoIsTony? is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: the city that never sleeps
Posts: 34
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

my 2 cents

pingy high pitched As cut through a big band and blend well with the brass

the dark wash of a K or some of these Bosphorus and Istanbul cymbals just sonically mesh better with a small acoustic combo.... more of an earthy woody tone

... and no drummers started freaking out over the sound of a ride cymbal pretty much until Tony, Elvin set the bar so high with their Ks

that being said .... my all time favorite ride cymbal sound on a record is Roy Haynes on the Chick Corea record Now He Sings Now He Sobs.... where I am almost positive he is playing a Paiste Formula 602 flat.... always sounded like Roy was playing a piece of glass to me
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-06-2014, 09:41 PM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,870
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
my 2 cents

pingy high pitched As cut through a big band and blend well with the brass

the dark wash of a K or some of these Bosphorus and Istanbul cymbals just sonically mesh better with a small acoustic combo.... more of an earthy woody tone

... and no drummers started freaking out over the sound of a ride cymbal pretty much until Tony, Elvin set the bar so high with their Ks

that being said .... my all time favorite ride cymbal sound on a record is Roy Haynes on the Chick Corea record Now He Sings Now He Sobs.... where I am almost positive he is playing a Paiste Formula 602 flat.... always sounded like Roy was playing a piece of glass to me
Curse that Tony and Elvin!
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-07-2014, 05:15 PM
RickP's Avatar
RickP RickP is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,480
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

I play with a Big Band frequently here in Toronto and we play a variety of different size venues. My preferred ride for the majority of these gigs is a 20" reissue Paiste 602 Medium ride. It has enough stick ping to cut through with enough wash so it doesn't sound one dimensional. It is also one of the best crashable rides out there. The bell is very nice as well.
I also use reissue 602 16" and 18" thin crashes and 14" 602 SE hihats. I have used this setup since these cymbals were reintroduced and they work great for my Big Band gigs and my Pop/Blues/Classic Rock gigs.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 04-07-2014, 07:26 PM
groove1's Avatar
groove1 groove1 is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Midwest US
Posts: 780
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

I've gotten to play on a lot of 50's and 60's K's. While I didn't like most of them, the cymbals
that were great were just that! I have never played on any older K that had as much wash
as the K cons being produced today. Maybe just my experience. I recently played on some
of the brand new Kerope's being introduced and didn't hear any comparison between the older
K's I've played and these new cymbals either. I like darker cymbals with some wash but not
too much. I checked out the K cons and dismissed them for that reason...but hey, cymbals
are very personal and if it works for you, great! I buy cymbals that sound good 20 feet away
and further. If it sounds great in the audience I can deal with how it sounds to me...but this
brings up an important point about cymbals maybe....

On my gigs we never do close miking. 99% of the time nothing is miked as we play small and medium sized venues. So I want sounds that sound good at a distance. IF a drummer is always being close miked I suppose the "close up sound" is very critical.

Out of the cymbals out there right now for jazz I lean towards the Istanbul Agops I've heard but don't own any. Just my personal preference.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 04-07-2014, 09:06 PM
dwsabianguy's Avatar
dwsabianguy dwsabianguy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 391
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

I've always been drawn toward bright, clear cymbals that have character. I think Paiste's Dark Energy line are some of the most perfect cymbals anyone has ever made because there's a complexity in the sound, but they're not so dark that they become a pillow of "tah" behind the rest of the music. Sometimes that's an appropriate sound, but it's nothing that I play with any regularity.

I think what's worse than having someone in a big band with big, pillowy cymbals that get lost is when someone brings their K Constantinople Medium-Thin Low to a rock or country gig. I mixed a tune in school that might have been a Medium, but that cymbal stuck out like a sore thumb and it sounded terrible.
__________________
Check out my band, Stammerings
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 04-07-2014, 09:33 PM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,755
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Interesting. I have two crashes in the usual lineup, a rather "bright" 18, and a low and dark (but still loud due to size) 21.

Both are technically A's, but they're old and have completely different characters to them.

I wouldn't like a setup that was limited to only bright or dark choices.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 05-07-2014, 05:32 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,870
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

As I looked back over this thread, it's interesting to note how far cymbals have come, especially considering the fact that they first started out life as shields in battle. I saw both of the "300" movies and those brass shields are historically the cymbals evolutionary first step. I suppose Zildjian was the first one to say, "what if we made these lighter and more musical-sounding so when the soldiers beat on them they were even louder to intimidate the enemy?"

And the comedian in me is picturing King Leonidas asking "can I get some rivets installed in mine?"
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-07-2014, 06:36 AM
drumming sort of person drumming sort of person is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,521
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

I have, let's see, eight rides to choose from, that will cover ANY requirement (they're all quite different from each other believe it or not).

24" Giant Beat
22" Dark Energy Mk 2
22" Traditional Light
20" Formula 602 Medium
22" Twenty Masters Dark
22" Formula 602 Modern Essentials
20" Formula 602 Medium Flat
18" Signature Flat
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-07-2014, 06:51 AM
porter's Avatar
porter porter is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,447
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

It's all about for the timbre for me- my 20" HHX Omni with a super-heavy center and high profile is decidedly not a jazzy cymbal to me. Luckily I have my Dark Spectrum hats and my Dark Energy ride which are relatively heavy AND dark cymbals, so I get enough projection in the jazz band. My other 2 rides I use in the jazz band (about 15-18 people) are a 21" HHX Legacy, which is very thin- I wouldn't dare use it as a big band ride, and I usually crash it unless we're in a very quiet section, and a 19" TRX Icon Medium Crash I got the other day. Wonderful smooth & hammered character, but the heavy-ish weight and size give it enough projection.

As for the "big, thin crashes" so prominent in metal/rock- speaking for myself, articulation is not needed on most wash-ridden parts, one usually wants the quarter note crashes to stay under the texture of the melody or focus, plus the timbre sounds a bit more natural than an Extra Heavy Mega Power Crash. Of course, these cymbals are usually present (and IMO work best in) a more open and 'natural' band, more Animals as Leaders or Karnivool than Periphery or The Faceless.
__________________
Check out my Youtube channel!
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-07-2014, 07:17 AM
Aeolian's Avatar
Aeolian Aeolian is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Santa Cruz CA
Posts: 2,013
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

In my mind it's more about the acoustic space. Voicing things the same way you mix live or recordings. The more things going on, the narrower each voice needs to be in order to be distinct. Not so much a matter of "cutting" which tends to invoke brightness and with everything trying to be bright there's a ton of high end clutter and nothing actually cuts through. Rather it's a matter of taking up less acoustic space. So a drier ride without a lot of overtones or trash creates a distinct sound in a large mix.
Conversely, in smaller settings that thin sound ends up sounding, well, thin. So a broader or richer sound is more pleasant and fits into the more open sonic landscape.
I have a Gibson 335 and a Fender Stratocaster. In my old corporate band, the Gibson sounded like mud, but the Fender sounded like a guitar playing the various parts I did. But when I used to do blues trio stuff, the Gibson sounded more majestic.
Last month I did a classic rock thing that had a bunch of people playing and a loud bass player. I brought a 7x13 bubinga snare I'd recently gotten thinking it would cut though and still sound big. After the first set I swapped it out for a 5" deep snare that had a narrower sound. Which cut though without having to pound it.
My primary ride cymbal is a Cie Vintage that has a fair number of overtones but isn't excessively dark. It's a phenomenal blues cymbal. With a barrel tip stick I can get enough definition without overpowering the mix. Although it wouldn't work for really loud or '90s rock unless it was mic'd up. It's more shimmery than trashy and doesn't gong at all. I find that a lot of dry rides build up a lot of low gong wash. Which is just as bad or worse than a trashy wash. At least the drummer can hear the trashy wash and back off or move up onto the bow.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-07-2014, 07:43 PM
bigiainw's Avatar
bigiainw bigiainw is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,094
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

I have owned 3 pro level ride cymbals in my drumming life, all at the bright and pingy level- a 20" Earth Ride (no longer with me and I really wish that is was) a 20" K Custom and a 22" Z3 Medium Heavy. The type of music that I play and the volume of the rest of the band mean that even these can struggle at times. I love a washy ride, but they are not for me live. I love a big crash too. 20" minimum! My regular live snare is a 14x5.5.

I'm not sure if any of that means anything, but its the way I roll.
__________________
Hit me with your rhythm stick
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 07-02-2014, 08:06 AM
BachBeat's Avatar
BachBeat BachBeat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 180
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Couldn't agree more - horses for courses (and cymbals for music.... thank you, thank you...try the veal)

I own a set of K Cons, a set of Keropes, a set of 602s and some one-off cymbalsmith creations. They are all great in their own right, and all very musical cymbals. I have spent countless hours listening, watching and searching for the magic dark smoky jazz ride (as have many others), but a lot of the music I play just doesn't call for it. Agree with those who have commented about the frequency considerations, rather than just the sound of the cymbal itself. Drummers (more than some other instruments) must consider this, since the available tonal range on your average drum kit spans from a very low HZ rumble through to high HZ white noise and everywhere in between.

I find that the 602s are, at worst, extremely usable for all shows, and at best absolutely perfect. My ear gravitates towards the darker sounds when they are isolated, but funnily enough, towards a brighter sound in context. Even with the K Cons - I heard a 22" Medium Thin High the other day that was absolutely special, and I swear by my MT Low...

To put it in context, have a listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iduhQqLaP9g

It's by "The Jazz Drums!", and I found it very enlightening (also, this video may have been posted somewhere here before, but is again relevant in this particular context). See what you think...I was gobsmacked that my ear preferred the Mel Lewis Agop cymbal(s) to the darker tones of the others (including those that I own that were represented) I do acknowledge, however, that the particular Stan Getz bop/cool era jazz track used in the video probably lends itself more to rides that have that higher pitched fundamental tone...worth a look regardless :)
__________________
Yamaha, Istanbul Agop, Vic Firth, Remo.

https://www.drumsbykarl.com
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 07-02-2014, 09:17 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,870
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

It blows my mind that this thread has been running since March of 2011! I'm old ;)

And here I am, still no A-type ride cymbal, but I'm using my 22" K Light Ride for everything, and my 20" K Custom Dark Ride when somebody needs a little brighter. Ironic that I use the cymbal labeled as "Dark" as my go-to when you need "bright", eh?

I've been contemplating getting a few Pitch Blacks, but I am afraid.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 07-02-2014, 10:13 AM
paradiddle pete's Avatar
paradiddle pete paradiddle pete is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: down south
Posts: 1,644
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

602's are the cheese..
__________________
petey poo!
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 07-02-2014, 10:19 AM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 11,360
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradiddle pete View Post
602's are the cheese..
Too damned scared to lay a stick to one.

I hit a Giant Beat once........had to get them. Then I hit a 2002........had to start acquiring them too. In fact, I'm still on that journey as we speak. Can only imagine what follows if I start lending my ear to 602's.

Can you have too many cymbals they ask?.......No, it would appear you cannot.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 07-02-2014, 01:10 PM
mpthomson mpthomson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 373
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

My two best rides for big band stuff (a big, powerful big band at that) were an A 20" Ping and a 20" K Heavy, which was by some margin my favourite. It has wash and ping, with a nice musicality to it.

Bizarrely my darkest sounding ride is an old Paiste 3000 20" !
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 07-02-2014, 01:33 PM
paradiddle pete's Avatar
paradiddle pete paradiddle pete is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: down south
Posts: 1,644
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Can you have too many cymbals they ask?.......No, it would appear you cannot.[/quote]as Bach beat said at worst extremely usable for all shows, at best absolutely perfect. Many cymbals to choose from but 602's would be the weapons of choice to me.
__________________
petey poo!
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 07-02-2014, 02:01 PM
AudioWonderland AudioWonderland is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 584
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Hey here's a question for us to ponder: why is it that when we talk jazzy-sounding cymbals, we immediately think dark?

I understand variety is the spice of life, but the other day we had a big band playing at Plaza Gardens Stage here at Disneyland and I could tell the drummer had his K Constantinople ride just washing away with the band, and the more I listened, the more I thought, "this doesn't fit!"

For big band jazz? Dark and washy is not the deal. I don't think Buddy Rich ever played dark and washy, nor did Joe Morello with Dave Brubeck. Of course, most drummers only have one set of cymbals and even if they had more, I doubt they'd want to haul them all around (although I've heard some guys do that). I only have one set of cymbals too which I think straddles the line between dark and washy and bright and pingy rather well. I don't get gigs where people are asking for certain cymbal sounds, so I guess I've been lucky. But thanks to the marketing, I think it's a requirement that everybody own at least two ride cymbals (like we all own two snares). One to be bright and pingy, and another to be dark and washy. I suppose it's great for business.

I think we shouldn't assume that because you've got that wonderful dark ride, that it is right for everything. Some of you guys who already own a number of cymbals can say, "well duh, Bo, we already knew that!" to which I would say, "well, some of us obviously don't"....
My KCon is a wonderful ride for small group jazz. Sits nicely under the horns with enough stick to hear the rhythm out front.

Its the last cymbal I would pick for a big band gig. Thats not really my thing but I would want a brighter cymbal, likely an A series ride. The sweet ride is the closest I have in my collection for a gig like that
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 07-02-2014, 02:12 PM
AudioWonderland AudioWonderland is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 584
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
Well, if you really go back and look at the history of Avedis Zildjian, one of the reasons he broke with the Black Sea hand hammered traditions was to get a brighter tone, which was more in demand with Big Band Jazz drummers in the USA. The acoustic jazz guys always went to the Kerope bin, and always have. So I think this sterotype of dark cymbals with jazz has really more to do with acoustic and quieter jazz styles. Buddy Rich and those famous big band drummers had a full sets of Avedis Zildjians, not K Zildjians. What baffles me is this latest fad that I see throughout all genres of music for darker cymbals. I'm an old guy and I just scratch my head when I see this. Back in my heyday, guys were scrapping their Avedis for Paiste 2002s to get more cut on stage and not crack so many cymbals. Anybody dragging a set of Ks onstage for a rock show would be looked at as touched. You might as well be hitting air next to those 100 Watt Marshall and 200 Watt Ampeg stacks. However, today, I see guys trying to throw in a set of Istanbuls into metal, rock and Big Band jazz. This makes no sense to me, and I have to wonder how much of it is pushed by the manufacturers themselves. But then, maybe it has to do with all the noise consciousness these days and the pressure all around for live music to be a lot quiter than it used to be.
Speaking from my experience, darker cymbals record better to my ear. They also tend to be quieter which is also helpful in the studio. I have a Sweet ride and a few Armand crashes but typically I use K Hats, K Dark Crashes and either a std K ride or a K Custom Dark ride. Its a pretty versitile setup. Probably not ideal for some ofthe more extreme genres but that is not my scene so no problem with that
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 07-02-2014, 02:25 PM
bigiainw's Avatar
bigiainw bigiainw is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,094
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradiddle pete View Post
Can you have too many cymbals they ask?.......No, it would appear you cannot..
According to my wife, you definitely can!
__________________
Hit me with your rhythm stick
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 07-02-2014, 03:25 PM
Muckster's Avatar
Muckster Muckster is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: I'm right behind you.
Posts: 1,921
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
my 2 cents

pingy high pitched As cut through a big band and blend well with the brass

the dark wash of a K or some of these Bosphorus and Istanbul cymbals just sonically mesh better with a small acoustic combo.... more of an earthy woody tone

... and no drummers started freaking out over the sound of a ride cymbal pretty much until Tony, Elvin set the bar so high with their Ks

that being said .... my all time favorite ride cymbal sound on a record is Roy Haynes on the Chick Corea record Now He Sings Now He Sobs.... where I am almost positive he is playing a Paiste Formula 602 flat.... always sounded like Roy was playing a piece of glass to me
That 602 Flat Ride is what did it for me. It was such a contrast to the "washy" rides that i was told i have to have to play Jazz. I also loved what Paul Wertico did with flats on the Pat Metheny records.
__________________
Max Roach did it, Elvin Jones did it, but Roy Haynes didit and didit and didit.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 07-02-2014, 03:40 PM
MileHighDrummer's Avatar
MileHighDrummer MileHighDrummer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Denver / Los Angeles
Posts: 445
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
... but some drummers gotta know their role. As you have guitarists who know how to get different tones out of their amps depending on the music,
This is what I was thinking too. Years ago we didn't have all the choices that are available so we learned how to "play" the instruments. We didn't expect the instrument to play for us. Like with cars (my other passion), and guitars and golf clubs :), more people today expect that if they purchase the top of the line or "best" that it will magically do the deed. Instead of learning to finesse a particular sound people look for the cymbal (car, clubs, guitar....) to perform the task, and when it fails, complain all over the internet about how the (choose your arena) is horrible or defective somehow. Drummers should learn their instruments. How to tune them, how to caress/finesse them, how to PLAY them. Then they can get just about any sound they want from what they have. Something as simple as different sticks can change the way a cymbal responds (or snare, or tom..).
__________________
Steve
"When I can match Buddy Rich, lick for lick, I will get a rack."
Ludwig Super Classic Maple
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 07-02-2014, 04:06 PM
Beam Me Up Scotty's Avatar
Beam Me Up Scotty Beam Me Up Scotty is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 973
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

I like dark cymbals simply for how they sound, plain and simple. Bright and cutting do nothing for my ear, and even my 20" K Ride is a little too close on the bright side. Now my K Con Bounce ride on the other hand... That is my holy grail of dark rides.
__________________
"God is dead." - Nietzsche, 1882

"Nietzsche is dead." - God, 1900
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 07-03-2014, 07:26 AM
BachBeat's Avatar
BachBeat BachBeat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 180
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Case-in-point...

I just put my K Con 22" MT Low up for sale. A cymbal that I swore I'd never part with. Two reasons:

1) Relevant to this thread - it was too dark/low pitched for most styles of music to sit well in the mix. Thinking about frequencies, as has already been mentioned, there are 'better' cymbals to choose most of the time.

2) The styles of music that it did suit, it has been ably replaced by a 22" Kerope, which has a higher tone (though it would still be described as lower pitched).

The K Con sounds like magic on it's own, but once you add in other instruments, in some settings it just disappears, no matter what you do (Short of crash-riding the heck out of it...)

Sunrise, sunset.
__________________
Yamaha, Istanbul Agop, Vic Firth, Remo.

https://www.drumsbykarl.com
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 07-03-2014, 07:40 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,870
Default Re: Why ya' gotta be so dark?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MileHighDrummer View Post
This is what I was thinking too. Years ago we didn't have all the choices that are available so we learned how to "play" the instruments. We didn't expect the instrument to play for us. Like with cars (my other passion), and guitars and golf clubs :), more people today expect that if they purchase the top of the line or "best" that it will magically do the deed. Instead of learning to finesse a particular sound people look for the cymbal (car, clubs, guitar....) to perform the task, and when it fails, complain all over the internet about how the (choose your arena) is horrible or defective somehow. Drummers should learn their instruments. How to tune them, how to caress/finesse them, how to PLAY them. Then they can get just about any sound they want from what they have. Something as simple as different sticks can change the way a cymbal responds (or snare, or tom..).
Perhaps we're showing our age, eh? I know I should have stuff to satisfy a musical client, but I really like making do with what I show up with, or given, to play. It just reinforces that attitude of "I play the gear, and not vice versa" and should usually scare the pants off of lesser players (usually the under 13 crowd for me).

I also remembering when I picked up photography, I must've spent years just shooting with a regular old 35mm prime lens before I added another lens, or (gasp) got into zoom lenses ;)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com