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  #1  
Old 01-24-2011, 03:55 PM
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Default Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

Hi guys + gals

Last night I had a gig at a local pub well (15 minutes away from my house).

It was us and another band playing.

Well silly me I forgot my cymbals and I told my bass player as he does the sound and supplies the kit, he then went and asked the drummer from the other band if I could use his which I didn't really want because I would have asked him myself. I asked him because he might have had the cymbals that came with the kit.

Anyways the drummer said no which is his right definitely and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that at all and it turns out my bass player only had a set of hi-hats which resulted in me driving back home to get mine and back again.

Anyways I'm minding my own business at the bar and the drummer from the other band walks up to me and asks if he can borrow my cymbal stand. To which I reply well I'm all for helping other drummers out with gear but it would have been nice to have some co-operation with the cymbals especially if he was planning on asking to use my stands. He turned around and said well they are 300 worth of gear and it wasn't his fault that I forgot the cymbals and you don't see guitarists lending their guitars out to other people. I replied it's your right to say no. But I just thought to myself is this guy for real?

He then asked me again if he could use it and I said well if you have enough to get by I'd rather not. Then in a huff he said 'Ok, no problem' and walked away abruptly.

Is it me or is this really cheeky, I can understand why he said no to me but then to ask if he could use something of mine is surely a piss take right?

Has anyone else had any experience like this?
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  #2  
Old 01-24-2011, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

Yes it is !!...and he has a lot of NERVE too !!!


Quote:
Definition: Cheeky - "Eee you cheeky monkey" was what my mother said to me all the time when I was a kid. Cheeky means you are flippant, have too much lip or are a bit of a smart arse! Generally you are considered to be a bit cheeky if you have an answer for everything and always have the last word. My licence plate on my MX5 (Miata in American) was CHEEKY, which most Texans thought was something to do with bottoms - wrong!!
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Old 01-24-2011, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

Cymbals Vs. cymbal stand...I don't know.

He didn't have any right to get mad when you turned him down. You were okay with him turning you down. That's about it really.

I am very protective of my cymbals and drums. Hardware, a little less.

Btw, I have seen other guitar players helping out their fellow guitarists with guitars, cables or amps.
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Old 01-24-2011, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

I would have just said very simply, "You're not lending cymbals, I'm not lending cymbal stands."
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Old 01-24-2011, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

I wouldn't have hesitated to let him use the stand, although I would have jokingly given him a hard time about the cymbals.

Next thing you know your kick pedal goes down and he's the only other guy in the place who can help...
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Old 01-24-2011, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

I would probably have said yes to him borrowing my cymbal stand, but I completely understand you saying no (and I also completely share your reaction to his request; it was more than a little cheeky).

I would also have said no to anyone borrowing my cymbals (and have done so on a couple of occasions), but then there would be no way I'd ask them to lend me something afterwards.
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Old 01-24-2011, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

I ally myself with the general sentiment of the page.

In an isolated circumstance, letting another drummer borrow a stand requires no thought at all, they're pretty much made to be indestructible. I also am extremely reluctant to let others borrow my cymbals (having witnessed firsthand the low regard that some drummers have for other people's prized instruments).

But in this situation, I don't think the guy did himself any favors. This is why I have a checklist that I use at home before I leave, so that I very very rarely find myself in this sort of position.
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Old 01-24-2011, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

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Originally Posted by jer View Post
I wouldn't have hesitated to let him use the stand, although I would have jokingly given him a hard time about the cymbals.

Next thing you know your kick pedal goes down and he's the only other guy in the place who can help...
That's very true! And probably what I'd do.

-Jonathan
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Old 01-24-2011, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

My hardware is nearly indestructible, so I wouldn't have really had a problem with lending him a stand.

Cymbals break and crack, and I wouldn't feel completely comfortable letting someone else use my cymbals either. But if I denied someone that help I wouldn't ask something of them.

A drummer at this jam I frequent takes down his splash after he's done playing his set with the house band and lets every other drummer play on everything else he has. The way he explained it, if he cracked a cymbal, it was on him, but if someone else cracked a cymbal, it was on them. It would be quite a predicament if something like that happened.
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Old 01-24-2011, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

Cheeky, yes.

I would have let him borrow the stand and given him crap, jokingly, about not letting my borrow his cymbals, too. If I was REALLY vindictive, I would have quickly modified said stand to be unstable and wish for it to fall during the set...
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Old 01-24-2011, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

Wait...So, you forgot the only thing you were responsible for supplying? :)
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

NEVER loan or borrow equipment.

"Rent From" or "Rent To"....yes...with lawyer approved written contracting.

Always show at your appointments a little early with proper equipment and resonable replacements(heads,BD Pedal,sticks,throne,snare,HH Stand - imagine your main kit evaporates and you want to pull off the appointment...and duplicate those pieces)

Bring fluids...and for long appointments...food...and change of cloths...and toothbrush(be ready to meet your big break after each bathroom visit).

Allocate time after you are done with the appointment for business schmoozing.

Treat everyone, including abusive jerks, with basic respect...but honor your limits and walk away when appropriate.

Think and act like a businessman and you will get business.
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

I see the difference.

Cymbal: Highly personal choice of sound, subject to breakage.

Cymbal stand: No one cares what the stand sounds like, and very difficult to break.

But I get your point, if he is unwilling to help you out, it's crazy to think he would then ask to borrow something.
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:53 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

As was stated before, it is entirely your right to not want to borrow out your gear, but if you had let him borrow your stand, then hey, you've got yourself a new friend in the music business.
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Old 01-24-2011, 10:47 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

Quote:
Originally Posted by caddywumpus View Post
I would have let him borrow the stand and given him crap, jokingly, about not letting my borrow his cymbals, too.
So would I......mercilessly.......and I mean a good old fashioned, non-stop Aussie barrage too. In fact, I would have shamed him into giving me his drink rider whilst I was at it. :-)

On the other hand. If I'd just knocked you back on borrowing my cymbals, I wouldn't have had the hide to ask for a stand either.

That said, it's a fair cop. I don't think you were unreasonable by not lending your stand either.
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:37 AM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

Well I did feel bad afterwards for not lending it cause I hate conflict or even saying no to anyone.

I once told a drummer that he must bring 4 things to the gig; snare, stool, pedal and cymbals.

He didn't bring a stool or a pedal and I ended up lending him a cymbal too. I am usually not too bad about lending people breakables and just sometimes it would be nice to receive the same courtesy even though every drummer has the right to refuse to lend out their gear and I have started doing this a lot more now.

Bull: No I didn't. I was responsible for bringing my stands, stool, snare, pedal and cymbals. There's a lot there and sometimes even though not very often I forget something.

Jer: You're absolutely right about that the thing is, he was using the house pedal that was supplied with the kit so I could have just used that if the worst came to the worst.

Coldhardsteel: I completely agree with you about breaking cymbals, like everyone here I am really reluctant about lending out cymbals especially to people I don't know. And a stand is a stand I have no problem lending these out but I just thought it was rude and I was annoyed about it.

The guy actually said to me he was going to bring more stands, I should have said to him well why didn't you? lol so he knew he was going to have to ask me to borrow some in the first place. I always tell a drummer this, if I forget something and they let me borrow what I need, I will always help them out in the future and people have held onto that word and I do, people who show courtesy receive it from me.
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  #17  
Old 01-25-2011, 11:21 AM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

There always seems to be a built-in competition when there is 2 or more bands playing that though on the surface rarely comes out, things like this tend to bring it out..I can recall a gig years ago at a very big named establishment. There was 2 other bands besides ours playing, in the owners mind we were equals, so he had us draw straws for top billing and we won. We were so excited and the other 2 bands were obviously dissapointed, I could just imagine going asking one of the other drummers to borrow even a pair of sticks that night.
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Old 01-25-2011, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
So would I......mercilessly.......and I mean a good old fashioned, non-stop Aussie barrage too. In fact, I would have shamed him into giving me his drink rider whilst I was at it. :-)

On the other hand. If I'd just knocked you back on borrowing my cymbals, I wouldn't have had the hide to ask for a stand either.

That said, it's a fair cop. I don't think you were unreasonable by not lending your stand either.
I like your style, Pocket. Yes, there's No way I'd have had the nerve to ask for a favour after denying one. Agree, given the circumstances, bartering drinks for a loan of the stand seems fair. Cocktails :)
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Old 01-25-2011, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

If this was me, I would have said something to the effect of...

Wait let me get this straight...You shoot me down when I ask to borrow your cymbals, and then you want to borrow something from me? Are you serious?
You've got a lot of nerve shooting me down then crawling to me asking for a stand.
I'll tell you what, even though I should tell you to get lost, I'll let you rent one for 10 dollars, how's that?

Could you translate "cheeky" into American?
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Old 01-25-2011, 02:50 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

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Originally Posted by JT1 View Post

Jer: You're absolutely right about that the thing is, he was using the house pedal that was supplied with the kit so I could have just used that if the worst came to the worst.
I was using a pedal as an analogy, it could have been any item you needed to perform.
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Old 01-25-2011, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

I see a couple of things wrong with this...

1) You didn't ask him for the cymbals, your bandmate did, so he never turned YOU down.

2) If you only were 15mins away from home, why even ask to borrow anything? Have someone soundcheck your drums and hurry and go get them...

3) Anyone would be crazy to think another drummer would lend you and ENTIRE set of cymbals. A crash or splash is one thing, but all the cymbals in a set-up? Even in a combo pack, cymbals aren't cheap.

I do find it a rather bold move to ask you for assistance though, and get why that bothered you. But your first move should have been to figure out a way to get your cymbals to the gig. Don't EVER rely on another drummer to provide you with what you need. In a pinch, like a broken snare or something, I'm sure most drummers would help. But when you show up unprepared, that's on you and your band.
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Old 01-25-2011, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
NEVER loan or borrow equipment.
RIGHT !

My daughters band was at a jam session and her drummer left a double Iron Cobra on the stage. GOODBYE DOUBLE IRON COBRA !

DAN
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

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Originally Posted by Travis22 View Post
I see a couple of things wrong with this...

1) You didn't ask him for the cymbals, your bandmate did, so he never turned YOU down.

2) If you only were 15mins away from home, why even ask to borrow anything? Have someone soundcheck your drums and hurry and go get them...

3) Anyone would be crazy to think another drummer would lend you and ENTIRE set of cymbals. A crash or splash is one thing, but all the cymbals in a set-up? Even in a combo pack, cymbals aren't cheap.

I do find it a rather bold move to ask you for assistance though, and get why that bothered you. But your first move should have been to figure out a way to get your cymbals to the gig. Don't EVER rely on another drummer to provide you with what you need. In a pinch, like a broken snare or something, I'm sure most drummers would help. But when you show up unprepared, that's on you and your band.
The reason I didn't ask him myself again is because that would make me look incredibly pushy and I didn't even want to ask him in the first place (although I probably would have), if you read my original post properly I asked my bassist because I thought he would have the cymbals that came with the house kit but he went and asked the other drummer anyway!

A 30 minute journey = petrol money that I didn't want to spend. But this is what happened anyway.

It wouldn't have been a full set of cymbals as I clearly stated that he had hi-hats. A crash and a ride would have done. I understand cymbals aren't cheap and I understand why he said no, which I have stated many times as it is his right.

I wasn't relying on the drummer to bail me out with cymbals as I forgot them, I didn't intentionally leave my cymbals behind. The drummer brought one stand with him and was lucky that there was one supplied otherwise he would have been asking to borrow more than one.

If you refuse to help someone you shouldn't then expect them to help you.
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
If this was me, I would have said something to the effect of...

Wait let me get this straight...You shoot me down when I ask to borrow your cymbals, and then you want to borrow something from me? Are you serious?
You've got a lot of nerve shooting me down then crawling to me asking for a stand.
I'll tell you what, even though I should tell you to get lost, I'll let you rent one for 10 dollars, how's that?

Could you translate "cheeky" into American?
Hey Larry, 'techristian' translated it in his first post (The second post). That is a good response indeed and I know what his response would have been if I'd said that lol.

Even if I had of asked him myself he still would have said no as I did call him on it when he asked to borrow my stand.

If it had have been a matter where he couldn't play because of not having a stand, I would have reluctantly let him borrow it because they had travelled quite a way and I'm not a selfish guy.
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

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Originally Posted by JT1 View Post
The reason I didn't ask him myself again is because that would make me look incredibly pushy and I didn't even want to ask him in the first place (although I probably would have), if you read my original post properly I asked my bassist because I thought he would have the cymbals that came with the house kit but he went and asked the other drummer anyway!

A 30 minute journey = petrol money that I didn't want to spend. But this is what happened anyway.

It wouldn't have been a full set of cymbals as I clearly stated that he had hi-hats. A crash and a ride would have done. I understand cymbals aren't cheap and I understand why he said no, which I have stated many times as it is his right.

I wasn't relying on the drummer to bail me out with cymbals as I forgot them, I didn't intentionally leave my cymbals behind. The drummer brought one stand with him and was lucky that there was one supplied otherwise he would have been asking to borrow more than one.

If you refuse to help someone you shouldn't then expect them to help you.
You both showed up to a gig without the tools you needed knowing you were going to go play. To me that's the problem and not that he gave you attitude. You both were wrong, you both should be put out to pasture by your bands for this...not really, but you get my point. Just be prepared, man, and you won't have this issue again. Some people are bigger asses than others, so don't ever rely on someone to bail you out. When you do, this is what you get. What if you were hours away and were the only band? I'd be more upset with myself for almost letting my band down.
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Old 01-25-2011, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

This happened to me at my last show (well we didn't get to play, but I'll get to that in a second). We were originally set to play at 10pm as the first of three bands, one of which we know and are good friends with. That band asked us if they could go first, their drummer wasn't feeling well, and we were ok with that. So midway through their set, the band that was set to go last (and the band that booked the show) tell my singer that we have to play last. A little annoying since our fans were there at 10, but fine, they booked the show.

BUT THEN their singer comes around saying that their drummer forgot their cymbals and was asking for mine. I say no, and they have to go get theirs. The problem comes in now: they won't let us play before them, we have to wait for them to go get their stuff, leaving the bar in silence for almost 30 minutes (Not cheeky, more like douchy) while my singer and I are arguing with theirs and our fans are mad (and end up starting fights we had to break up).

So we packed up our stuff and left, that band got banned from the place and we got a free gig out of it a couple weeks from now.
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:14 AM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

Quote:
(Not cheeky, more like douchy)
What a selfish band.. if they let you go first and they get their stuff, probably they will never get banned.
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:43 AM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

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Could you translate "cheeky" into American?
If you have a son who is obsessed with Thomas the Tank Engine, you'll eventually figure out what cheeky means. hehe.
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:35 AM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

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If you have a son who is obsessed with Thomas the Tank Engine, you'll eventually figure out what cheeky means. hehe.
Ha ha! That's exactly how I learned that word! Narrated by Ringo, no less. My younger son turns 5 today - Happy birthday, Elliott!
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

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Originally Posted by jer View Post
I wouldn't have hesitated to let him use the stand, although I would have jokingly given him a hard time about the cymbals.

Next thing you know your kick pedal goes down and he's the only other guy in the place who can help...
Exactly. I never mind lending stands. Drums annoy me and I try to avoid that, but cymbals are an absolute no.
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Old 01-27-2011, 12:29 AM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

I would definitely not lend someone my cymbals, and I probably would lend someone my stand. But if I had denied to lend cymbals before, there's no way I would then ask for a stand.
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Old 01-27-2011, 01:06 AM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

I rarely ever get asked by someone to borrow my cymbals, but when I do I let them have them. No, not my pride and joys, but an entire set of Zildjian ZBT cymbals I keep tucked away in the van just in case this should happen. If one should get damaged, I'll just put them in their little case until next time. This has never happened though. When I go out I do a complete check list just to make sure I have everything I need for the gig, including many spares. Snare drums, pedals, hi hat, throne and stands. If you're getting paid, then you're a professional. You should act like one, be organized and redundant.

Just my opinion.
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Old 01-27-2011, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: Is it me or is this incredibly cheeky?

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No, not my pride and joys, but an entire set of Zildjian ZBT cymbals I keep tucked away in the van just in case this should happen.
Cagey bugger!!

Like it Dennis.......like it a lot. :-)
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