Cajon vs Djembe

caddywumpus said:
What does THAT mean? Of course they're a real djembe! Just, you know, made completely out of synthetic materials...

What else would you want to use a djembe for, to fill in for a drum set on a quiet gig? Ha ha ha...please...

I've played a couple that have pleasing open tones, but for the most part, I haven't played any that encompass a good slap, open, and bass tone all in one. I'm not completely dismissing them as "crap", just speaking comparably to djembes made in West Africa...
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Your point is unclear to me, Caddy. You seem to be taking me to task for suggesting that the Remo products aren't "real" djembes, then saying the same thing yourself.

I make no pretense of expertise or authority here, but I do think I have enough experience to have a valid opinion.

Can you boil it down for me, real simple? Where have I gone wrong?
 
m1ck said:
Your point is unclear to me, Caddy. You seem to be taking me to task for suggesting that the Remo products aren't "real" djembes, then saying the same thing yourself.

I make no pretense of expertise or authority here, but I do think I have enough experience to have a valid opinion.

Can you boil it down for me, real simple? Where have I gone wrong?
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My point? Just making conversation. It doesn't matter how much experience you have, you still have the right to an opinion. I wasn't trying to take that away from you or anything. My apologies if my post came across that way.

I was confused about YOUR comment, "so long as no one confuses them for a real djembe". I was referring back to my earlier comment, which wasn't about them not being instruments, but that they weren't "authentic" instruments, and have a completely different sound. I'm sure that people who are into "djembe music" know the difference between a real and synthetic djembe. I was commenting for the original poster, and anyone else reading, that the synthetic djembes have different advantages/disadvantages when compared to the djembes made in Africa out of a single, hollowed-out log. People just starting to look at djembes might not realize this.

That's all. You haven't gone wrong anywhere, and once again, my apologies if it sounded like I was "digging in".

peace,
caddy
 
m1ck said:
Some of the Remos sound really nice for certain applications - so long as no one confuses them for a real djembe. They simply do not work for West African percussion. But they work well for other purposes and most of the ones I've played have a sweet, pleasing tone. I wouldn't necessarily dismiss them all as "crap."
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There's an awful lot of snobbishness about non-Western musical instruments. It's all relative. Plastic heads and wood composite shells are the industry standard for certain kinds of drums (i.e., Western trap set drums all have mylar heads and ply bodies) but if you make a djembe with similar materials lots of people will go "eeeeeeew!" For some non-Western drums, like the darbuka, plastic heads and aluminum bodies are the professionals' choice and their progenitor clay and hide drums aren't much seen. The metal and plastic darbukas certainly don't sound like their clay and hide ancestors but it's only because of prevailing opinion that that metal and plastic darbukas are considered acceptable. I say screw prevailing opinion - if you play what everyone else plays you will sound like everyone else. Get what makes you happy. (If you are looking at playing in an actual/authentic ceremony, etc., however, then authentically made instruments may be necessary).

The Remos are fine drums, made to a high level of quality. I wish they would make a Fiberskyn head to retrofit non-Remo dembes (they do this for congas, but not djembes). I own tablas, ashikos, a bata, a djembe, darbuka and congas that are all bolt-tuned. I avoid rope tuning because I like the convenience, reliability and speed of mechanical tuning. I sometimes use my Drum Dial on these drums.

The djembe is the Swiss Army Knife of hand drums - useful just about anywhere. But I would suggest a cajon for coffeehouse gigs, since its sound is mellower, and cajons are very fashionable right now. I have a Fat Congas cajon and an LP djembe and these are good brands.

Jay Bellerose is an example of a drummer who plays a freaky ethnic setup and he uses a djembe as a snare.
 
Aha DMC! I've been waiting for you to weigh in. I 've kind of been purposely obnoxious just to get you in here. I'm a snob about djembe and always will be. I'd even give any one of my teachers s*** if they started playing these, but I know they are everywhere and designed with the most advanced space-aged technologies available.

I do use synthetic heads on my bongos because I crank the crap out of the macho and have busted too many skins that way. I've even done the x-ray film thing with it, but honestly thought it was too thin sounding.
 
Garvin said:
Aha DMC! I've been waiting for you to weigh in. I 've kind of been purposely obnoxious just to get you in here. I'm a snob about djembe and always will be. I'd even give any one of my teachers s*** if they started playing these, but I know they are everywhere and designed with the most advanced space-aged technologies available.

I do use synthetic heads on my bongos because I crank the crap out of the macho and have busted too many skins that way. I've even done the x-ray film thing with it, but honestly thought it was too thin sounding.
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HAHA! Funny.

It's all relative, though. No one thinks congas are unauthentic just because they have lug tuning - well, you might, because you really do have authentic rope-tuned congas! Yes, you are an ethnic percussion snob, but you seek out the authentic instruments to back it up. I'm often criticized for my snobbery about plywood so I should be the last one to hold snobbery against someone else.

I would love to find a picture of you and PaintShop it on someone playing a Remo djembe. You would be disgraced!
 
Deathmetalconga said:
HAHA! Funny.

It's all relative, though. No one thinks congas are unauthentic just because they have lug tuning - well, you might, because you really do have authentic rope-tuned congas! Yes, you are an ethnic percussion snob, but you seek out the authentic instruments to back it up. I'm often criticized for my snobbery about plywood so I should be the last one to hold snobbery against someone else.

I would love to find a picture of you and PaintShop it on someone playing a Remo djembe. You would be disgraced!
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I am Sorry but it really gets down to what do you as an individual like as a sound, and what do you as an individual feel comfortable in playing. This is no different that why we all have our preferences to the brands of drums that we own. If it provides the sound that you are a player are looking for; whether it is synthetic or custom made; a imitation or the original who cares. I say this because I have seen professional players use what someone else would might turn there noses up at. Why, because it provided the sound they were wanting for that particular piece of music they were playing. In other words, IMO after listing to everyone here buy what sounds good to you that is in your price range
 
EDrums said:
I am Sorry but it really gets down to what do you as an individual like as a sound, and what do you as an individual feel comfortable in playing. This is no different that why we all have our preferences to the brands of drums that we own. If it provides the sound that you are a player are looking for; whether it is synthetic or custom made; a imitation or the original who cares. I say this because I have seen professional players use what someone else would might turn there noses up at. Why, because it provided the sound they were wanting for that particular piece of music they were playing. In other words, IMO after listing to everyone here buy what sounds good to you that is in your price range
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I agree that most of the time, sound is the most important thing. I have some Remo drums and I like playing them. All my hand drums are bolt-tuned and I use plastic heads whenever possible.

There are some cases, though, where authentically-made instruments are necessary and nothing else will do. In those instances, it's not just about the sound, but the larger cultural setting. People go to great lengths to prepare authentic clothing, food, dancing, ceremonies, etc., and instruments are part of the package. For most of us, though, that will never be a consideration.
 
I just bought the $100 AA Meinl Headliner Cajon and a bag, the same one Mr. Slingerland said in the second post.

I've heard it before in a cafe setting so I have a good feeling I will like it. Didn't want to go overboard on more expensive one this time around.

Keep the discussion going on the other stuff, very interesting read. lol
 
Yeah, I would recommend a Cajon for sure. I have been using the LP Angled Surface Cajon, and I love it. Much more versatile then a Djembe. I got mind for $170 dollars at Musicians friend.
 
To me, people playing that cajon thing look sort of cooky. I think the presentation of the player is sorely lacking. In addition, it will wear on your back rather quickly, I imagine. Djembe all the way. There are a large variety of djembe's available. Alot of the ringy-ness you describe is associated with some of these synthetic, mechanically-tuned djembes. Many of the wood, rope-tuned djembe's provide a very earthy tone, and not too exotic sounding. Also, try some of the smaller models, like 10" or 12". You'd be surprised at how deep some of them sound. I own a Toca 10" rope-tuned djembe, and, mic'd up, have powered whole bands with it, at decent-sized venues.
 
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caddywumpus said:
I've heard way too many drummers playing "rock beats" on djembes over the years, and it's annoying if you've actually heard what a djembe should sound like.
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I don't think this is quite fair. The djembe is an instrument that makes a great sound. It is unique in that one drum can create an entire beat, all with your hands. I play in a "rock musical", which is unsuitable for a drum set, so I use a djembe. It's not traditional djembe music, so traditional djembe playing would be totally inappropriate. However, the djembe really hits the spot, played in a rock style. You shouldn't be annoyed if the music is good and sounds good.
 
I just wanted to chime in and say that this is a great thread and very informative. I own none of the instruments mentioned, but, I would like to some day. So, continue the thread for as long as possible, please.
 
After now picking up a cocktail drum, I can tell you nothing beats it as a way to bring the drumset sound to coffeehouse gigs. I usually bring my congas and Hang drum to mix it up, but the cocktail set is at the core.

I have a cajon and a djembe and I've used those before. They do bring a very ethnic vibe and can sound good with just about any music - but they will certainly color the music with an ethnic vibe. Which is good - if that's what you want.
 
steverok said:
I don't think this is quite fair. The djembe is an instrument that makes a great sound. It is unique in that one drum can create an entire beat, all with your hands. I play in a "rock musical", which is unsuitable for a drum set, so I use a djembe. It's not traditional djembe music, so traditional djembe playing would be totally inappropriate. However, the djembe really hits the spot, played in a rock style. You shouldn't be annoyed if the music is good and sounds good.
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Since when is drum set unsuitable for a rock musical ? We in Europe have shows like ''We Will Rock You'' witch are played with a drum set drummer.

Im using cajon, djembe, conga, bongo both as add ons and stand alone as sole drummer/percussionist.

The Cajon (if a good separate snare and bass tone) is perfect as a mini drum kit

So can be the djembe, but (although much more deeper bass and higher snap) still less versatile.

(witch for me is an challenge so I prefer the djembe)
 
Boom said:
I just wanted to chime in and say that this is a great thread and very informative.
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+1

Deathmetalconga said:
After now picking up a cocktail drum, I can tell you nothing beats it as a way to bring the drumset sound to coffeehouse gigs. I usually bring my congas and Hang drum to mix it up, but the cocktail set is at the core.

I have a cajon and a djembe and I've used those before. They do bring a very ethnic vibe and can sound good with just about any music - but they will certainly color the music with an ethnic vibe. Which is good - if that's what you want.
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A cocktail kit would be ideal.

Theoretically a cajon replaces a kit ... but in practice, a pretty crappy kit. Maybe I've not seen the right clips but I've never heard one sound even remotely as good as a basic kick/snare/hats kit. Djembe's have a richer sound but I agree with Mr Slingerland that the boom can be intrusive (unless you're going for that ethnic vibe, as you said).

Always nice to have a snare in there somewhere because they're so versatile - sticks, brushes, hands, mallets, snares on or off, cascara ...
 
MusiQmaN said:
Since when is drum set unsuitable for a rock musical ? We in Europe have shows like ''We Will Rock You'' witch are played with a drum set drummer.
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Just in my case. The music is piano and acoustic guitar based, and so far we have just done readings in peoples' homes. When it goes to a bigger venue, it may get the drum set treatment.
 
steverok said:
I don't think this is quite fair. The djembe is an instrument that makes a great sound. It is unique in that one drum can create an entire beat, all with your hands. I play in a "rock musical", which is unsuitable for a drum set, so I use a djembe. It's not traditional djembe music, so traditional djembe playing would be totally inappropriate. However, the djembe really hits the spot, played in a rock style. You shouldn't be annoyed if the music is good and sounds good.
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From the perspective of what sounds most like the timbre of a drum set, the cajon beats out a djembe, hands down. If you are making the djembe work in your arrangement, and it sounds good, then GREAT, more power to you. I was speaking in my post, made a few years ago, about the enormous amount of people you see playing djembe in place of a drumset for smaller gigs.

From what I have seen most djembe "players" do in a situation where they're filling in for a drum set, it seems that nobody knows how to play the drum with any good technique. Sure, it's easy to get a good bass tone from a djembe, but instead of playing slaps to represent the snare, which would be the obvious choice, they instead choose to play with tones. It's as if the drummer just got the djembe for their birthday a week ago, and said, "Yeah, I know how to play this thing! Here I go..." It actually takes quite a long time to learn how to consistently produce a good slap. I never see "djembe players" at coffeeshop gigs play slaps, their playing is two-dimensional. The djembe IS an instrument that makes a great sound, IF you know how to coax one out of it.

What is this rock musical you are playing where drum set is unsuitable?
 
steverok said:
Just in my case. The music is piano and acoustic guitar based, and so far we have just done readings in peoples' homes. When it goes to a bigger venue, it may get the drum set treatment.
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Using a djembe for practice when you don't want to cart a whole kit around, or have limited space, or if the kit would be too loud to rehearse with, is totally fine. I get that. It sounded originally like using a drum set for the live performance was "unsuitable".
 
caddywumpus said:
From the perspective of what sounds most like the timbre of a drum set, the cajon beats out a djembe, hands down. If you are making the djembe work in your arrangement, and it sounds good, then GREAT, more power to you. I was speaking in my post, made a few years ago, about the enormous amount of people you see playing djembe in place of a drumset for smaller gigs.

From what I have seen most djembe "players" do in a situation where they're filling in for a drum set, it seems that nobody knows how to play the drum with any good technique. Sure, it's easy to get a good bass tone from a djembe, but instead of playing slaps to represent the snare, which would be the obvious choice, they instead choose to play with tones. It's as if the drummer just got the djembe for their birthday a week ago, and said, "Yeah, I know how to play this thing! Here I go..." It actually takes quite a long time to learn how to consistently produce a good slap. I never see "djembe players" at coffeeshop gigs play slaps, their playing is two-dimensional. The djembe IS an instrument that makes a great sound, IF you know how to coax one out of it.

What is this rock musical you are playing where drum set is unsuitable?
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I agree with you all the way.

Honestly, the Cajon is a lot more versatile, and doesn't sound as annoying, and IMHO a lot more musical styles can be played on the Cajon, then the Djembe.
 
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