12/8 fills

12/8 fills. They're a bit of a f*****r. Two questions:

1. How do you play yours? I mean, you can add an extra note to each 8th note and get a bar-long sextuplet. You can play three notes per 8th, or do a Bonham (a la Since I've Been etc) and play four 16ths per 8th (if you follow me; don't try and do the math).

2. I'm stuck at the first of the above. Any tips -- like counting in a particular way -- to get to do the more complex fills in 12/8?

Seems like a question with a zillion answers. Depends on the context of the song, the mood, the lyrics (lol) and a hundred other factors. You could do 8th and/or 16th note triplets, combinations of straight 16th's and eighth note triplets, unison triplet buildups, press rolls, double paradiddles...they are the first to spring to mind but geez man it's a question with an astronomical amount of possible answers. Basically whatever works for whatever part of the song that's in question would be my answer. Sorry.

If you are just playing by yourself with no context, and you are just looking to fill space within a 12/8 framework, then whatever fits in the space. Or you can go over the barline if you wish, no rules, except that it sound musical. This seems like a pretty easy framework to make fills in, 12/8, I don't quite understand why you're stuck. It's not like it's 15/16 time.

Get your music pad out and write some different configurations out, As long as the number of notes in the bar tallies with the number of notes allowed by the time signature, you're in business. Compound signatures can be confusing - remember that in a compound signature, the 8th notes are grouped in three.
Try scanning something in and posting it up.

Maybe what your driving at is that you don't come in on time unless you break it down previously? One way to make sure is to try to keep your hi-hat foot going to keep time through the fill - e.g., if you step on the hat every 3 8th notes- then play what you want - just make sure you come in after 4hi-hat clicks to play a one bar fill. The easiest fill to play would seem to be a 6, 12 or 24 note fill as those are probably what you are playing on the ride- just move it over to the toms. With triplets, I think the easiest is just to substitute each of the 6 (or 12)notes of the fill with a triplet.

As everyone points out, I don't think you need to stay in the framework of a one bar fill or in multiples of the 12 8th-notes. You could play a 1 and a half bar fill so long as you come in on the right note of your sequence or you could play 8 triplets (2 triplets every 3 8th notes) or fit in 20 notes in the bar if you can pull it off.

I've got no problem coming in on, say, the 3 or the 4 for a one or two beat fill. And I've got no problem just doubling up my hats/ride hand to make one or two sextuplets in such a situation.

What I'm finding difficult is making the transition to fills that are outside the time the ride hand's already doing, like one triplet per 8th on the ride. Even worse, some of the Bonham fills where he hits four 16ths for every 8th. There's just something very odd about that time shift to me. Not in the listening, cos it works, but in the counting and trying to do it.

Any ideas for notating this in type? It'd make explaining it easier.

My suggestion would be to change the way you are thinking about the time. For example 12/8 is really no different than 4/4. The big difference is that the time feel is triplet based vs duple based. For example swing or shuffle rhythms could be noted in 12/8 or 4/4. That being said if the tempo is fast simply just phrase your ideas in 4/4 just like any other fills you play. In this case the 1st partial of each group of three being the quarter note. Then you can play any of the rhythms you are used to playing. If the tempo is slower you can break it down by 4 groups of three to play the type of rhythms you are asking about. For example the Bonham sixteenths you mentioned. Think of the eighth note as the pulse for 4 bars of 3/4. So you would play 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a. That will give you three groups of sixteenths for each of the 12 eighth notes. To clarify the

123 456 789 10,11,12 has become 123 123 123 123 as 4 bars of three with the quarter tempo equal to the eights you were counting 1-12. I hope this explanation makes sense to you. This would be much easier to show you in person.

Thanks. That's helpful. I guess it is just a case of an unfamiliar time sig, but this process has got me thinking about it.

So many rhythms, so little time!!!

I sometimes play a six note fill with the sticking LrlrlR. The accented right on a tom and the rest on the snare, so the accented notes sound like a flam between tom and snare.

Oh I misread the topic a bit, but well, a six note sticking could obviously be fitted into 6/4.

OK, I'm getting to grips with this now.

First one I'm doing (at 40 bpm) . . .

1-&-a 2-&-a 3-&-a 4-t-t &-t-t a-t-t

could try breaking it down into the smallest logical feel for the song.

does the song turn on every 3?...every 6?...every 4 for three repitions?

That observation then helps with determining how you want to approach the time.

(i fall into the camp of suggesting avoiding seperating how you approach time and "fills" though I am far from rigid in the structure of my playing)