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  #1  
Old 11-12-2015, 08:59 AM
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JustJames JustJames is offline
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Default Recording - Epiphanies Various

If you've been hear any length of time, you'll hear people (with Larry at the front of the list) advocating recording your playing to get an idea what you really sound like. Last weekend my band did igzackerly this. We used a small Tascam stereo in the middle of the room, and recorded what we played.

Listening to the first track was a terrifying experience. As somebody who believes that the secret to a cheerful life is a mild degree of self delusion, I was dreading how we (and I in particular) would sound. As it turns out, we sound OK, and I even sound OK. Not give up our day jobs and hunt down 1 Direction good, but bar band, garage band party band good.

Two things I've noticed though...unsurprisingly, the more I listen, the more I hear that needs to be worked on.

The second thing is that I will be changing the way I play the kit. I have played mostly between the snare the 1st tom (a 10" tom on my kit). I've always liked its relatively high, clear voice. But listening to a recording, instead of a high, clear voice, I'm hearing something weeny and a bit feeble. So I've started work on using the 12" second tom and 16" floor tom more in my playing.

Anybody else have any conversion stories to share?

TL;DR - Heard my playing, now changing the way I use the kit. Cool story bro'!
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Old 11-12-2015, 03:46 PM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

One of the most revealing things for most players when they listen to playback, is that the music is faster than it seemed when playing it. This is important because songs suffer to varying degrees when played too fast or too slow, and perception of tempo vs the actual tempo must be respected.

I've learned that playing something that feels really energetic and uptempo, probably sounds a bit frantic to the listener. Conversely, if something feels slightly lazy to me, it's probably just right to the listener.

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Old 11-12-2015, 04:47 PM
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larryace larryace is offline
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

James, I don't know what you're talking about. I never recommended recording and listening back, that's insanity! :P

Fastest way to improve. That is all.

And word on what Bermuda said about actual tempo vs perceived tempo. It's a real phenomenon that only a recorder can correct.

Oh and cool story bro! (My new favorite tagline here, inclusion in the DrummerWorld dictionary imminent).
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Old 11-12-2015, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

We record everything in both bands I am in, and I will tell you that it is invaluable to a degree. Recording on a handheld recorder like the Tascam only reveals so much due to the small diaphragm of the mic. Lower frequencies will not be picked up so you lose quite a bit of the guitar and vocal tone. Its great for tempos and to get a feel for the groove, but after hearing the dynamics of the recordings from the board at a few gigs I don't use the handheld recordings for critical assessment much anymore.
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Old 11-12-2015, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

Even recording band rehearsals is a good idea. Using this, I've won every argument with band members that we are playing a number too fast. I can tell by playing because certain fills or movements were not easy to pull off but they never listen till they hear a recording. Vocalists are the worse for rushing. Bermuda is spot on, if a number felt rushed to play it sounds way too fast....'frantic' is a great word.
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Old 11-12-2015, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

I find it curious that people's whatever...ego....delusion, what have you...is such a real actual phenomenon, that it actually changes a drummer's perception from what is actually going on, to something that is...well manufactured by the drummer. I did it for decades!

What you think is happening and what is really happening...a person has to reconcile that so it is one in the same. I find that it's rare the drummer who doesn't record themselves that has this reconciled.
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Old 11-12-2015, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

We record most rehearsals, more so if working up a new cover as we tend to change the original a lot. It helps to establish tempo and the definitive arrangement. Once nailed that is the template we all work to.
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Old 11-12-2015, 06:42 PM
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Hollywood Jim Hollywood Jim is offline
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

First let me say that it is amazing how many musicians dont record themselves at live shows in order to evaluate themselves. I go to a lot of open mic jams and I see nobody doing this. Could be the fact that jammers really dont care. Or their egos wont allow self-evaluation.

So when I read Larry's advice about two years ago I started recording my playing.

The big wake up call for me was my selection of fills. I learned to play the rudiments on a drum set using all of the drums as part of the rudiment. I would put some rock songs on and practice my rudiments. My favorites songs for this were Who songs. There is a lot of drumming and places for fills in Who songs. Many years ago in my first cover band Id get bored during the gig and Id do complex fills just to try and throw off the bass player. He and I would have a good laugh about this. It was fun.

Consequently, I am now able to pull off some complex fills. When I listened to these recent recordings I noticed that one or two fills in every song did not go along with the feel of the song. As though I was using the fill spaces of the song to pull off little solos. Lots of fun, but often it disrupted the flow of the song. I like using a lot of triplets and accented eight notes for fills, just to show off my skills.

So after hearing myself in these recent recordings I corrected my unruliness and now I sound much better when I play. I had to change my attitude and not try to show off so much. Now every time I play I try to remember that the purpose of playing is not to prove that I am the best drummer in the room. And guess what happened, all of a sudden other musicians at the jams want me to be their drummer.

Could Larry be a musical genius for recommending this idea? Ill let you guys decide.

Thank you Larry!


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Old 11-12-2015, 07:51 PM
Captain Bash Captain Bash is offline
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

Main thing for me is getting the snare and kick drum balanced, recordings showed the music felt better ( to all ) with lower volume snare and slightly bigger kick. I currently use a 22 kick with a tiny 13. X 5 snare. My keplingers are on sabbatical !
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  #10  
Old 11-12-2015, 08:32 PM
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larryace larryace is offline
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
First let me say that it is amazing how many musicians don’t record themselves at live shows in order to evaluate themselves. I go to a lot of open mic jams and I see nobody doing this. Could be the fact that jammers really don’t care. Or their egos won’t allow self-evaluation.

So when I read Larry's advice about two years ago I started recording my playing.

The big wake up call for me was my selection of fills. I learned to play the rudiments on a drum set using all of the drums as part of the rudiment. I would put some rock songs on and practice my rudiments. My favorites songs for this were Who songs. There is a lot of drumming and places for fills in Who songs. Many years ago in my first cover band I’d get bored during the gig and I’d do complex fills just to try and throw off the bass player. He and I would have a good laugh about this. It was fun.

Consequently, I am now able to pull off some complex fills. When I listened to these recent recordings I noticed that one or two fills in every song did not go along with the feel of the song. As though I was using the fill spaces of the song to pull off little solos. Lots of fun, but often it disrupted the flow of the song. I like using a lot of triplets and accented eight notes for fills, just to “show off” my skills.

So after hearing myself in these recent recordings I corrected my unruliness and now I sound much better when I play. I had to change my attitude and not try to show off so much. Now every time I play I try to remember that the purpose of playing is not to prove that I am the best drummer in the room. And guess what happened, all of a sudden other musicians at the jams want me to be their drummer.

Could Larry be a musical genius for recommending this idea? I’ll let you guys decide.

Thank you Larry!
I take the credit you give and place it respectfully at your feet.

Jim you are a nice man. But it's you who deserves the credit. I didn't invent recording and listening back. If I suggest it to 100 people and only a few do it, it's they who deserve the credit for having a mind open enough to listen to an idea that maybe wasn't theirs originally. So good on you.

I just know how much it helped me. If it helped me, I figured it would help others too. But the suggestion is useless until someone like you actually tries it.

So thank you.
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  #11  
Old 11-12-2015, 08:49 PM
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Hollywood Jim Hollywood Jim is offline
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
it's you who deserves the credit. the suggestion is useless until someone like you actually tries it.
THX.


.........................
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  #12  
Old 11-12-2015, 09:36 PM
SpareRib SpareRib is offline
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

I can share in your epiphany as well. 3 years ago I started recording all of our practices and rehearsals ono a Tascam DR40. I noticed a few things. 1) Placement of the recorder is important along with setting the mic level. 2) For our style of music I wasn't playing loud enough, especially the bass drum and snare drum. 3) I had a tendency to drag and songs were slowing down. That did not sound good, feel good or groove well. 4) So even though I was dragging I was also rushing my fills. 5) I wasn't listening to the song well enough and my parts that I was playing were not fitting in well within the song. 6) Lastly, no matter how hard I hit a drum it can only be so loud. Smaller drums are just as not quite as loud as bigger drums. So I bought a bigger kit, tuned them up a little higher with no muffling and am working on technique. Viola, more cut, more lower fundamental, heavier sound with less physical work needed
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Old 11-12-2015, 11:51 PM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpareRib View Post
1) Placement of the recorder is important along with setting the mic level. 2) For our style of music I wasn't playing loud enough, especially the bass drum and snare drum.
Making a simple recording is certainly helpful in terms of reviewing parts and tempos, but I wouldn't judge sound quality or balance by using a single mic or standalone recorder.

Bermuda
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Old 11-13-2015, 06:19 AM
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JustJames JustJames is offline
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

@Bermuda - Nailed it! Not so much that everything was too fast, more that tempo was often inconsistent, with us speeding up during the song.

@SpareRib - Another nailed it. Maintaining tempo in and out of fills is not quite as magnificent as I had imagined.

@eclipseownzu - Spot on! The first thing that I noticed was that bass and kick were lacking from the recording.

@larryace and @Hollywood Jim - Are you guys going to get a room or what?
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2015, 07:24 AM
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Hollywood Jim Hollywood Jim is offline
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

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@larryace and @Hollywood Jim - Are you guys going to get a room or what?
See what happens when someone tries to have a civil conversation around here. LOL

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Last edited by Hollywood Jim; 11-14-2015 at 03:41 AM.
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Old 11-14-2015, 03:14 AM
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bonerpizza bonerpizza is offline
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

I had said epiphany eleven years ago when the first band I was in spent a good amount of money to record a full length album and we got the final mix back. My playing was way too basic and I didn't push myself what so ever to be creative, hearing those songs was a big push for me as a drummer to improve my chops and put a solid effort into being a drummer.

Six months later I got kicked out of the band!

With the bands I'm in now I record a rough demo track of us playing new songs and listen to them and add or change parts well before we EVER think about recording them in a studio!

I also recently started recording video of myself practicing so I can see myself playing and find any inefficiencies or weaknesses that I can fix.
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  #17  
Old 11-14-2015, 04:38 AM
SpareRib SpareRib is offline
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Default Re: Recording - Epiphanies Various

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Making a simple recording is certainly helpful in terms of reviewing parts and tempos, but I wouldn't judge sound quality or balance by using a single mic or standalone recorder.

Bermuda
Very true. I am still very pleased with the difference in sound and feel of the larger drums and cymbals. Thank you for the wise words, Bermuda!

Just James, As a result I have been taking lessons and I have been prescribed Syncopation for the modern drummer exercises 1-8 playing 2 and four on the hats, steady quarters on the ride and playing the eighth notes on snare and quarter notes of the patterns on the bass drum with a click. This is helping my coordination, time spacing and reading skills immensely.
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