Am I suddenly having trouble keeping counts?

CavemanZipper

Junior Member
Hey all!

So I recently joined a cover band, just 2 vocalists and me to keep counts so they can sing along to a karaoke version and still keep track of what line they're singing for the songs that have less obvious musical cues, etc.
Because of the cramped neighborhood I live in, I have to muffle my floor tom to act as a bass drum, and muffle my snare and unhook the rattle to act as the snare, and play both with my hands instead of a pedal for the bass.

Last night we decided to record a song this way, just me accompanying one of them singing solo, and midway through, he would slow down a little bit here or there, go off-key, and I would screw up my beat listening to him.
We stopped the recording and he said I had been going too fast which caused him to keep messing up his singing, which I was astonishingly sure I didn't.

So we went back and listened to the recording and I kept count just tapping the table for "1...2...3...4" and my count throughout the song was flawless.

We tried the recording again and this time, I put in a simple 4 beat double-bass fill towards a break in the song and my singer flipped out like I went off and they pointed it out again later that I had gone off there.

So I counted yet again with them and it was still flawless by count.

I've been drumming for about 8 years now, and though i'm not a professional drummer, I can keep my counts very well which has opened the door for me to splice in fills frequently without forgetting to maintain the beat.

This singer I was accompanying has been a shower-singer for the longest time with no actual vocalist experience.
As in, no lessons, can't play any musical instruments or read sheet music, never busked or sang for anyone else but himself.


Anyway, after a few more recordings, I slowed down my beat and muffled the drums more to accommodate his singing and found myself starting to ACTUALLY screw up!

So i'm quite baffled now.
Am I suddenly having trouble keeping counts or is it just my singer?
 
Hey, I'd usually say if you're getting complaints then you may be sliding during your fills. Try recording yourself on your own and have a listen.

However, I think more than likely it's the singer. The problem with being a bedroom singer or musician is you get very good at playing with yourself (brrrrrrrrr!) And every bedroom guitarist I've tried to jam with has had the worst timing ever, like literally no concept of tims at all and y don't understand the roles in a band, they think that THEY are the ones leading the band and tempo.

Saw some amazing shredders, they sound great on their own then I've sat scratching my head when they can't even play a simple riff in time. Gaps and rests are the worst. I can only assume bedroom guitarists get so bored on their own they shorten gaps and lose all sense of proper time.
So your singer is probably doing this and isn't experienced enough to be able to keep time or understand your drum fills. Vocalidts are usually the worst for bad timing anyway out of all members I find and he probably thinks he's a legend and carries a huge ego so he assumes it has to be you messing up his flow.

Check yourself then lay down the law. Don't let some in-experienced chump knock your confidence. As a completely green kareoke singer he's lucky to have a drummer of 8 years experience play for him. You've went out your way to please him.
Time to chop his ego in half!
 
Sounds like your singer has no concept of time and has picked up a lazy way of singing.
He may be speeding up on certain parts or slowing down on them so that it feels comfortable for him.

You're now compensating for that by playing how he wants you to play and so you've picked up his bad habit and your time keeping has got lazy because you're going with his tempo.

What you can do is record/ practice to a click - He will then not be able to flip out at you if you're playing properly to this.

If he is still flipping out at you then try using Guitar Pro and make the drum track in that & tell him to sing along to that as if it was you. It will be perfectly in time. If he screws up then you've all witnessed that his timing sucks and he will have to apologise to you and go away and work on his timing.
If he still doesn't believe it then I'd advise you to look for another band or another singer.
 
I just had a similar (sort of ) experience. I had two sessions with two guitarists and a singer trying to put a cover band together. They were all inexperienced and their timing was awful. ALL of them, particularly the singer, had a natural tendency to slow down. They had been playing together for a while, but never before with a drummer.

Like you, I've only been playing 8 years or so, but I know I can keep time, Unlike your experience however, this lot all appreciated having someone there to keep them in time and when it all went off they readily accepted that it was them at fault, not me.

I can't undersand why they would want to take on a drummer, more experienced than they are, and then tell him he's "off" ? Ego alert ? Sounds like they're not the band for you.
 
every bedroom guitarist I've tried to jam with has had the worst timing ever, like literally no concept of tims at all and y don't understand the roles in a band, they think that THEY are the ones leading the band and tempo.

Saw some amazing shredders, they sound great on their own then I've sat scratching my head when they can't even play a simple riff in time. Gaps and rests are the worst.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that experiences this frustration... I never know what to say either because they think they're SO good...
 
Get and use a metronome...

...send it through a separate channel for all to hear.

Case solved.
 
Wow I didn't know other drummers would have such similar experiences!
I too thought it was really weird but yesterday I proved it once and for all as per your suggestions :p

I went online and found a free metronome and set it to a 4/4 (we were covering The Man Who Can't Be Moved by The Script, its a fairly mellow song.)

Then I told this same singer to sing to the count with the tune in mind and he couldn't do it.
There's no way he can't remember the tune so it has to be the bad counting, we've heard this song tens of times, it was HIS idea to cover it in the first place!

The metronome wasn't annoying or intrusive either, just passive background counts!

He claimed it was too fast a count and it was different from the song.
I played along to the count and recorded my drum pattern on Audacity with the metronome playing at the same time and I was on point, note for note.

Then, I played this recording over the acappella version of the song and it fit just fricking fine!

Case closed, game, set, match.

Told him he'd better make it a habit to count when he sings or we ain't going anywhere with him.
 
Vocalidts are usually the worst for bad timing anyway out of all members I find and he probably thinks he's a legend and carries a huge ego so he assumes it has to be you messing up his flow.

Check yourself then lay down the law. Don't let some in-experienced chump knock your confidence. As a completely green kareoke singer he's lucky to have a drummer of 8 years experience play for him. You've went out your way to please him.
Time to chop his ego in half!

Thanks, buddy :D

And to everyone else as well!

Yeah I thought as much but it always feels better to get another opinion besides my own, haha.
I guess it IS time to start putting my foot down in my domain.
Hell, if the drummer isn't going to take the beat by the balls then who is?
 
Thanks, buddy :D

And to everyone else as well!

Yeah I thought as much but it always feels better to get another opinion besides my own, haha.
I guess it IS time to start putting my foot down in my domain.
Hell, if the drummer isn't going to take the beat by the balls then who is?

The Bassist or Rhythm guitarist ;)
 
Well done mate, you officially served his ass!

Bet that hurt his pride! Lol
 
Oh to add, it's not that he has to count when he's singing - I think that would be very off putting.

He just needs to improve his internal clock by singing along to the mp3's (which are recorded to a click track) to get a feel of and get used to the tempo of the song.
 
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