finnhiggins
GONE MUCH TOO EARLY!!!
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE
No hyperbole, I was demonstrating to you the idea of breadth versus depth. When you start school at a young age you're likely taught many topics - the basics of English, science, maths, geography, history, music, sports, blah blah blah for quite a long list. But once you get to a tertiary (advanced, university/college or above) level then you are generally expected to narrow this down to a particular field of specialism. There are a few great cross-field generalists out there in life who combine shallow knowledge of a large number of subjects into something of great merit, too.
The reason for this is that once you take on the commitment of knowing a particular subject to degree level you are essentially deciding to focus, full-time, on a smaller set of information so that you can absorb all the nuances and details of the particular field you work in.
That's what I'm talking about. You can decide to be a specialist or a generalist, but generally speaking you it's not possible to pursue being a generalist across a large number of subjects all the way up to the level of knowledge you have to gain to major in something at degree level. There just aren't enough hours in the day.
I don't think we're even saying that. There are obvious examples that do - Jack DeJohnette being a high-profile one. I'm sure Gregg can provide a list if prompted, too. The point is, I see those guys as being like the examples that get pulled out in the reading-vs-no-reading debate.
"Buddy Rich couldn't read!" cries kid #1.
"Dennis Chambers can't read!" cries kid #2.
Right, says teacher. That's correct. Hands up who here can play like Dennis Chambers or Buddy Rich could at your age?
OK, that's a bit low. But the argument is the same: For some people very tonally colourful playing comes fairly naturally, regardless of kit size. For some people reading is unnecessary because complex musical structures are easy to remember and play perfectly after one or two listens to a track. For the rest of us we have to learn and develop things in a way that is beneficial for us to be able to achieve such things.
Either way, from my experience, these people are a tiny majority of drum kit players. Most kids sit down at a big kit and start thrashing out unmusical rubbish. Worse, most intermediate or even advanced players will do the same. I do. And while he has yet to prove me right or wrong on the matter I'd be just as sure that by the standards I would hold myself to... Dogbreath probably does too. That's not to say that either of us are incurable, but I'd suggest that if either of us are curable in this respect it's going to come from having good control and understanding on a smaller set, not adding more bells and whistles.
Just as reading provides a great framework for learning to understand rhythmic structures and retain them in your head (I literally couldn't remember bass drum patterns until I learned to read!), small kit playing provides a great framework for learning to understand tone, melody, structure and MUSIC on the drums.
From my watching of many, many semi-pro and weekend warrior players - and, indeed, many videos and songs posted here under "Your playing" - I think it's pretty clear that these aspects of drumming are very under-appreciated by drummers. Moreso even than playing with proper technique. While most people here will happily assert that student drummers should spend a good portion of their technique practice working in isolation on a pad because it is *good for you* there seems to be a phenomenal resistance to the really rather obvious fact that less experienced players are very easily distracted by re-arranging, buying, cleaning, tuning and discussing huge piles of STUFF when they actually in reality have little control over the basic core of a drumset.
This is my argument. It applies to student drummers, sure. But I don't think it's just a beginner issue, because there are many technically advanced players on huge kits out there who I personally don't feel have ever had to consider the issues that a small kit makes clear as daylight. The way I see it, you can learn a lot about a drummer and their practice habits by looking at their practice setup. See a practice pad in there somewhere? They're probably going to spend at least a part of their time working on technique. See a small kit in there somewhere? There's better odds that they're thinking about training themselves as musicians, rather than just guys who hit stuff at varying degrees of speed and power.
radiofriendlyunitshifter said:
No hyperbole, I was demonstrating to you the idea of breadth versus depth. When you start school at a young age you're likely taught many topics - the basics of English, science, maths, geography, history, music, sports, blah blah blah for quite a long list. But once you get to a tertiary (advanced, university/college or above) level then you are generally expected to narrow this down to a particular field of specialism. There are a few great cross-field generalists out there in life who combine shallow knowledge of a large number of subjects into something of great merit, too.
The reason for this is that once you take on the commitment of knowing a particular subject to degree level you are essentially deciding to focus, full-time, on a smaller set of information so that you can absorb all the nuances and details of the particular field you work in.
That's what I'm talking about. You can decide to be a specialist or a generalist, but generally speaking you it's not possible to pursue being a generalist across a large number of subjects all the way up to the level of knowledge you have to gain to major in something at degree level. There just aren't enough hours in the day.
I don't think we're even saying that. There are obvious examples that do - Jack DeJohnette being a high-profile one. I'm sure Gregg can provide a list if prompted, too. The point is, I see those guys as being like the examples that get pulled out in the reading-vs-no-reading debate.
"Buddy Rich couldn't read!" cries kid #1.
"Dennis Chambers can't read!" cries kid #2.
Right, says teacher. That's correct. Hands up who here can play like Dennis Chambers or Buddy Rich could at your age?
OK, that's a bit low. But the argument is the same: For some people very tonally colourful playing comes fairly naturally, regardless of kit size. For some people reading is unnecessary because complex musical structures are easy to remember and play perfectly after one or two listens to a track. For the rest of us we have to learn and develop things in a way that is beneficial for us to be able to achieve such things.
Either way, from my experience, these people are a tiny majority of drum kit players. Most kids sit down at a big kit and start thrashing out unmusical rubbish. Worse, most intermediate or even advanced players will do the same. I do. And while he has yet to prove me right or wrong on the matter I'd be just as sure that by the standards I would hold myself to... Dogbreath probably does too. That's not to say that either of us are incurable, but I'd suggest that if either of us are curable in this respect it's going to come from having good control and understanding on a smaller set, not adding more bells and whistles.
Just as reading provides a great framework for learning to understand rhythmic structures and retain them in your head (I literally couldn't remember bass drum patterns until I learned to read!), small kit playing provides a great framework for learning to understand tone, melody, structure and MUSIC on the drums.
From my watching of many, many semi-pro and weekend warrior players - and, indeed, many videos and songs posted here under "Your playing" - I think it's pretty clear that these aspects of drumming are very under-appreciated by drummers. Moreso even than playing with proper technique. While most people here will happily assert that student drummers should spend a good portion of their technique practice working in isolation on a pad because it is *good for you* there seems to be a phenomenal resistance to the really rather obvious fact that less experienced players are very easily distracted by re-arranging, buying, cleaning, tuning and discussing huge piles of STUFF when they actually in reality have little control over the basic core of a drumset.
This is my argument. It applies to student drummers, sure. But I don't think it's just a beginner issue, because there are many technically advanced players on huge kits out there who I personally don't feel have ever had to consider the issues that a small kit makes clear as daylight. The way I see it, you can learn a lot about a drummer and their practice habits by looking at their practice setup. See a practice pad in there somewhere? They're probably going to spend at least a part of their time working on technique. See a small kit in there somewhere? There's better odds that they're thinking about training themselves as musicians, rather than just guys who hit stuff at varying degrees of speed and power.
