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  #1  
Old 10-30-2011, 09:52 PM
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Default I have a plan. Opinions sought.

Further to my thread about trying drums in drum stores, I've hatched a plan.

Over the next few weeks & months, I've decided to set up a drum demo facility, but with a difference. I'll have a small selection of kits set up, but much more interesting (IMO) I'm planning on setting up a shell construction & timber species comparison facility. The idea is that we'll have a selection of bass drums, toms, & snares of identical size, head type, & tuning, but made of different woods & shell constructions. For example: you could A-B two 14" floor toms in maple, one stave shell, & one steam bent shell. Alternatively, you could try 14" floor toms of stave construction in maple, mahogany, walnut, bubinga, birch, & ash. Or maybe the same selection in steam bent shells. The same for 10" toms, snares & bass drums. Additionally, we're planning on having a bearing edge comparison opportunity as well. That's quite a few drums we'd need to build, but I think it would offer a unique opportunity to truly A-B different drums. Also planning to allow players to bring their own drums in as part of the test.

Question is, would you be prepared to travel to such a facility if you had a serious interest in buying a new drum/set of drums? If so, how far would you be prepared to travel?

My thought is, such a unique facility would really help players decide on what works for them & what doesn't. Am I mad?
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

If I had a ton of money, sure. As it is, I think a lot of people would have a hard time justifying the expense.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

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If I had a ton of money, sure. As it is, I think a lot of people would have a hard time justifying the expense.
Sure, understood. I'm not thinking in terms of players flying trans Atlantic. Also, this facility would be open to those thinking of buying just a snare drum. My thinking is, it's cheaper to really nail down what works for you, than it is to buy the wrong product. Even if a visitor doesn't buy anything, they go away with a great appreciation of what shell constructions, bearing edges, & wood species get them close to their ideal instrument sound. Also, if they bring their own snare (or whatever drum/drums) they get to know if it's worth changing their gear or not, & that's another money saver. I'm thinking that a true A-B comparison facility is something special, or maybe I'm just way off the mark.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Question is, would you be prepared to travel to such a facility if you had a serious interest in buying a new drum/set of drums? If so, how far would you be prepared to travel?
I've spent plenty of time, and gas, going to 15 NAMM shows in the last 20 years ... yeah, if I was gonna splash possibly $3 to $5 K on a drum set, I'd travel to hear it. Make a weekend out of it, if need be. A 100 mile trip, wouldn't be such a big deal.
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My thought is, such a unique facility would really help players decide on what works for them & what doesn't.
True that...
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Am I mad?
Was there "ever" any doubt ...
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:42 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

Nope. Before posting on this forum I didn't know anything about the woods, had never heard of bearing edges, and never thought about drum construction (other than solidity of stands and fittings).

I bought by brand. When I was young everyone said Ludwig and Rogers were best. My friends all had Ludwig so I bought Rogers, and I'd heard they were better for jazz.

All rather primitive, I know. Bear in mind that I was exposed to this info for years via Modern Drummer but was only interested in the interviews, coaching tips and transcriptions. Still, young players today are surely more sophisticated consumers than I was ...
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  #6  
Old 10-30-2011, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

This is an excellent plan, even a dream come true, if I needed to change my drum set and the type of wood that I would definitely travel to such a place, no doubt about it, even if I was buying the same type of wood shells, I would bring a drum from my current kit and compare.

You see Andy, I lived in 4 differents countries, Switzerland, France, Ireland and England (Hertfordshire) and I can assure you that such a plan doesn't exist in any of these countries.

Sure some big drum shops have a facility where you can try a kit, but not on a comparison basis like your plan is suggesting.

Great idea, really...
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

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Sure, understood. I'm not thinking in terms of players flying trans Atlantic. Also, this facility would be open to those thinking of buying just a snare drum. My thinking is, it's cheaper to really nail down what works for you, than it is to buy the wrong product. Even if a visitor doesn't buy anything, they go away with a great appreciation of what shell constructions, bearing edges, & wood species get them close to their ideal instrument sound. Also, if they bring their own snare (or whatever drum/drums) they get to know if it's worth changing their gear or not, & that's another money saver. I'm thinking that a true A-B comparison facility is something special, or maybe I'm just way off the mark.
To be sure, I love the idea, and if such a facility were reasonably priced, and reasonably close (driving distance) I'd likely buy all my gear at that place.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:37 AM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

It is a great idea. The only problem is that people will not buy from your store.
Your store will be selling drums for other stores.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

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It is a great idea. The only problem is that people will not buy from your store.
Your store will be selling drums for other stores.
In a normal retail environment Bob, you'd be completely correct, but this will not function as a shop. It will be a low key & modest showroom for Guru Drumworks drums only. Sure, players can take away the knowledge & apply it to an alternative purchase, if they believe the same standards of build apply. The drum centre will operate on an appointment only basis. In the short term, it'll be set up in a 25' x 15' room on my property. The intention is to move it to a commercial unit later on if it proves popular. Can't afford to jump straight in to an additional lease & associated expenses at this time.

I'm doing a scaled down trial run this coming week. A load of drums arrive here tomorrow for a special guest to try out. Although I will only have a few examples of each build, it's a start.
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:00 AM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

Oh I see,
I thought that you were gong to rent retail space.
Location is the only issue that will keep some people away.
Getting to your home has to be convenient.
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  #11  
Old 10-31-2011, 02:11 AM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

This sounds like an amazing idea, it would function as a drum gear education facility, essentially!
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

No. Even though I know a lot about drums and their ins and outs, this is just too much science for me. In this instance, even though its completely not applicable to the OP, the phrase 'all the gear and no idea' springs to mind.
After years of recording and gigging sessions, not once has anyone noticed the type of wood in my kit, just how well I, or anyone else, can lay it down.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:12 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

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After years of recording and gigging sessions, not once has anyone noticed the type of wood in my kit, just how well I, or anyone else, can lay it down.
Surely that logic dictates that you may as well play a 200 beginner kit for all time?

Sure, no one in the crowd will notice the quality of the wood, the construction, the components - but we still buy/aspire to fantastic kit. As a musician I want to play the best gear I can justify/afford at any time.

I think there is a potential for this service. Will it appeal to Joe Everymandrummer? No. Will it appeal to the type of client who would consider Guru Drumworks in the first instance - hell yes!
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

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Surely that logic dictates that you may as well play a 200 beginner kit for all time?

Sure, no one in the crowd will notice the quality of the wood, the construction, the components - but we still buy/aspire to fantastic kit. As a musician I want to play the best gear I can justify/afford at any time.

I think there is a potential for this service. Will it appeal to Joe Everymandrummer? No. Will it appeal to the type of client who would consider Guru Drumworks in the first instance - hell yes!
Yep! I totally agree...
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

Surely that logic dictates that you may as well play a 200 beginner kit for all time?

If it came down to it, and it has, then I would take a beginner kit over nothing. After a (price) point, drums dont really sound any better, they might have nicer finishes and hardwear but the sound difference is negligible.
Back when I was playing functions, I would get a nice looking kit for as little money as possible, because rent had to be payed and sadly im not someone who could justify the money on drums.

This service is certainly got all the scientific aspects down, and theirs nothing wrong with that, its just to cold and scientific for my liking.
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  #16  
Old 10-31-2011, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

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This sounds like an amazing idea, it would function as a drum gear education facility, essentially!
Cheers Luke, yes, but the purpose would be to cut through all the hype & get down to some straight A-B comparison. I think it will make for an interesting experience.

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Originally Posted by jingscrivenshelpmaboab View Post
No. Even though I know a lot about drums and their ins and outs, this is just too much science for me. In this instance, even though its completely not applicable to the OP, the phrase 'all the gear and no idea' springs to mind.
After years of recording and gigging sessions, not once has anyone noticed the type of wood in my kit, just how well I, or anyone else, can lay it down.
I both get & appreciate your stance, but I view this as a means to get past the science that's used to differentiate one maker's drums from another, & take it down to basics. Essentially, does wood x sound different to wood y, do I like construction x better than y, is there any real benefit in me changing from my existing drum to a different one, etc. For many players, I think this has solid real world value.

I also agree that I've never been asked what wood my drums are made of, or any other construction detail, by anyone other than another drummer. The only concern of other players, engineers, producers, etc was "does it sound good or not?" Similarly, I've never enquired as to the wood a guitar is made of, I just want to know that it sounds good. The means isn't important to me. These things are the concern of the individual musician, or not, as the case may be. Many experienced players get to a point where they're happy with their sound, know how to get it, & everything thereafter is irrelevant, but there's an equal number that are searching for something different, especially if their playing style is changing.

So I see this as something a selection of players would find useful, & yes, there's always those guys who are more hung up on the gear than their playing. We need to satisfy them too, because, frankly speaking, their patronage keeps the drum manufacturers in business, & that keeps choices available for everyone else.


Edit: We must have been typing at the same time :)
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Originally Posted by jingscrivenshelpmaboab View Post
its just to cold and scientific for my liking.
That's actually the opposite of my intention here. I want to cut through the theory & get to the bones of the matter. Only the individual player can decide if something offers worthwhile advantage or not, & this is a chance to lay it bare.

Regarding drums sounding only marginally better past a certain price point, again, I mostly agree, but it depends on the value of marginally. The principal of diminishing returns certainly applies, that's for sure. All that said, sometimes, a construction is so different that the change in sound is quite profound. Not only have I experienced that, but I've seen other players experience it too. Is the difference worth it, even when it's a very noticeable difference? Again, down to individual circumstances.

P.S. I very much appreciate your point of view. It's all useful stuff to me. Thanks for chiming in!

Last edited by keep it simple; 10-31-2011 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:33 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

You're putting too much emphasis on the construction of things. I think you'll do a lot of work for very little return. I can go to my local GC and try out what they have or go to the local shop and try what they have. I wouldn't bother to go to a place like you suggest especially if I can't purchase.
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:41 PM
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You're putting too much emphasis on the construction of things. I think you'll do a lot of work for very little return. I can go to my local GC and try out what they have or go to the local shop and try what they have. I wouldn't bother to go to a place like you suggest especially if I can't purchase.
thanks for chiming in bigd. You would be able to purchase. I appreciate your view :) Thanks.
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:05 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

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You're putting too much emphasis on the construction
I'll have to disagree with this comment, over my 30 years experience I've only used three types of wood shells, mahogany, birch and maple, and they sound very different indeed.

In my head I know exactly what would be the "ideal" sound for me, I have quite mastered the tuning sides of a drum kit, but even with this in mind, I never got THE SOUND I'm hearing in my head.

With Andy's plan, you can bring your tuned existing drum with you and compare with other drum construction, wood, bearing edge etc. That would, I'm sure of this, help me to find that great SOUND I'm looking for.
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:41 PM
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It is a great idea that I wish every drum company,store offered. Good on you guys for offering it.
After being on these sites for the last couple of years, one thing I have realized, and this is you biggest obstacle, is that people are very brand loyal. It doesn't even matter how good the company is at this particular time in history, they just want that name on the bass drum.

Last year when I was ready to get back into acoustic drums after 20 years of electronics, I was ready to order a Tama kit because that is the brand I played 20 years ago. Luckily I went in and tried a bunch of kits out and decided on buying the drums I did because of how they sounded and not because of being brand loyal. My buddy just received his custom Tama Bubinga Elite's. He is a Tama guy, played them when he was a teen, and continues to support the company.

I feel this is a bad time, to be trying to sell a high end custom product, with the economy the way it is. Hopefully you guys are trying to come up with a great intermediately priced product which is where I believe the money is right now.

In my opinion you guys need to focus your monies and attention on getting some big name players playing your product. This will sell your product faster than any other method of marketing. History displays this pretty clearly. People wanted Ludwigs because of the beatles and Ringo, Led Zeppelin and Bonham. In the 80's many people wanted Tama because of RUSH and Neil Peart, along with many other artists that Tama was supplying drums to. When I put the pics up of Neil's kits recently, many on here liked the Tama kits because that was the kit they bought back when they were young, probably because of Neil or many of the other Tama artists at the time. Now you have many people drooling over the DW kits because many of the big name guys are playing DW supplied kits. IT is just too obvious to me that this is the way to do it. It doesn't seem to matter what age people are either. Many buy because of the name of the company, and brand loyalty,even if it is misguided and undeserved any more.

Will people buy your kits after trying them in person? Some with unlimited resources might. If the price is not too high, then some with limited resources might. Many will just say they are not made by the company I love and have loved for my life time so why bother going. Brand loyalty is an amazing lure. The trick is getting people to start buying your product. I believe artist recognition is the way to go about it. If you want to make money. :)
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:44 PM
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I like the idea. I also know who your special guest is and I hope his visit is as productive as you would like. He invited me along but sadly I am predisposed!

For a purchase like a Guru kit, I'm absolutely on board with this idea. You're spending good money on a kit that's a real 'for-life' purchase and if trying them out beforehand with a 'real' A/B comparison, cutting out the words. After all, in the UK actually trying drums out in a shop is the minority experience. This isn't usually a major issue but with a high-end kit, it absolutely is an issue and especially for a kit that is handmade and varies construction techniques.

Just to allude to Sticks4Drums. Having big-name players is a good thought but it won't work for a smaller company. Those that have played a Guru kit (including professionals, I'd wager) will openly admit that they are amongst the best they've ever played but without the logistical support that Tama, DW, Mapex or Sonor can offer, it's just not a practical proposition to endorse that brand as a touring player. The big companies get people like Gavin Harrison on board because of the logistics as much as the kit and not being able to guarantee an available kit World-wide (impossible given the budget and size of a smaller maker) means that as good as the kit is, having professionals on board as 'artists' in the official sense is impossible.

The best solution is to get players like that playing the kit (or snares) and spreading the word unofficially, creating a word-of-mouth, viral marketing approach. That doesn't cost anything and requires good networking for no outlay.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:04 PM
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I like the idea. I also know who your special guest is and I hope his visit is as productive as you would like. He invited me along but sadly I am predisposed!

For a purchase like a Guru kit, I'm absolutely on board with this idea. You're spending good money on a kit that's a real 'for-life' purchase and if trying them out beforehand with a 'real' A/B comparison, cutting out the words. After all, in the UK actually trying drums out in a shop is the minority experience. This isn't usually a major issue but with a high-end kit, it absolutely is an issue and especially for a kit that is handmade and varies construction techniques.

Just to allude to Sticks4Drums. Having big-name players is a good thought but it won't work for a smaller company. Those that have played a Guru kit (including professionals, I'd wager) will openly admit that they are amongst the best they've ever played but without the logistical support that Tama, DW, Mapex or Sonor can offer, it's just not a practical proposition to endorse that brand as a touring player. The big companies get people like Gavin Harrison on board because of the logistics as much as the kit and not being able to guarantee an available kit World-wide (impossible given the budget and size of a smaller maker) means that as good as the kit is, having professionals on board as 'artists' in the official sense is impossible.

The best solution is to get players like that playing the kit (or snares) and spreading the word unofficially, creating a word-of-mouth, viral marketing approach. That doesn't cost anything and requires good networking for no outlay.
You only need to get one big name to start the ball rolling. Someone that is on board, and not trying to rob you blind. History shows this.
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  #23  
Old 10-31-2011, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

Thanks again for chiming in guys!

Ah, Duncan, you know who my special guest is. I've not told anyone who it is, because that's their place to report, not mine, but I am very much looking forward to meeting a truly superb player from this forum (as well as those I've already met, ahem (; )

Not more than 30 minutes ago, I took delivery of a whole range of drums in different constructions & wood species. Nowhere near the selection that will be required for this project, but certainly enough for me & my guest to have some fun with.

Sticks baby! I completely get the message on celebrity endorsement, but it's way out of our league. The costs associated with global support logistics are huge. I'd estimate clear over $100,000 PA for an artist with a moderate touring program, so regrettably, that's not a possibility. That said, we do have considerable interest from the pro touring community, & we're trying to find some grass roots ways of making things happen.

Anyhow, I'm glad you like the idea of a bespoke drum testing facility. I'm certainly excited by the prospect, & I'm hoping for a bit of feedback from this week's activities.

cheers, Andy.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:18 PM
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OK. How about this. Set up a few satellite test facilities. Say one in the US, one in Canada.
to start with. Then at least members in different countries could try these drums out and spread an educated word. Maybe even at a members house, and then after a year they get to keep a kit.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

Do you really want to invite people whom you don't really know into your home?
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:30 PM
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I'm thinking Youtube is the largest viral outlet there is. You need to film the people that do come, and using every imaginal tag you can think of, drum, custom, etc let the thing spread.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:34 PM
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Do you really want to invite people whom you don't really know into your home?
As long as it was people like you Bob. :) I was thinking more like a heated garage, or barn. Something like that.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:36 PM
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I'm thinking Youtube is the largest viral outlet there is. You need to film the people that do come, and using every imaginal tag you can think of, drum, custom, etc let the thing spread.
You have a good point Gruntersdad. Many people on these sites will buy stuff site unseen, especially now with online purchasing being as popular as it is.
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  #29  
Old 10-31-2011, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

Andy I think it's a wonderful idea that the majority of drummers will go for in a big way. It's almost too good to be true, a facility like you envision. We need innovators like you to raise the game of drum making/comparing/purchasing. In my mind, you put the product quality, and drummers before profits, and that is admirable. A facility like this....I can't see how you would NOT gain the admiration, respect and LOYALTY of your proposed clientele. If a manufacturer provided a facility like this, AND their drums are world class, top of the line instruments (like Dean and yours Guru drums)...I think the rest of the companies will be put at a severe disadvantage as far as catering to the drummer goes. Because how many majors offer different constructions? OK ringed and non ringed, but I don't think Tama offers steambent, stave or segmented shells, not to mention your radical new design.

By approaching drum making/selection as a science, I think you will create a new market of intelligent savvy drum buyers that would be able to see that anyone who provides a facility like this is clearly a game changer and deserves their support. With your product, and that facility, as long as it is handled in a fiscally responsible manner, I think you're gonna knock one outta the park. This kind of thing seems like it would appeal to the most intelligent, and most likely, the most well off, drummers. That's the kind of clientele that will propel your product, their word of mouth. It's not lowest common denominator. Let Pearl cover that right?
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  #30  
Old 10-31-2011, 05:57 PM
AtomicFlapjack AtomicFlapjack is offline
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

Very interesting! I've always had this kind of image in my head of a perfect drum store offering... Well pretty much what you desribe. Drums of the same sizes, heads, tuning etc but all with different woods, bearing edges and so on. Perhaps people would be more inclined to travel to such a place if it was a more general drum store rather than just a facility for that? Bit I think of people are preparing to spend a couple of thousand pounds on a kit they might be willing to travel to see this. Good idea brewing I say.
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

Something like this, if it were profitable, (read sustainable) would really be a mecca for gearheads. A place where drummers could really get their geek on and experiment with all manner of different minutia.

Andy, a drumgeek fantasy of mine, if you would indulge a thought....

A "must have" for a facility like yours, and easily doable too with a woodworking shop I would imagine.... Take a straight shelled drum, say 6 mm thick, your standard horizontal ply drum, only with a completely flat batter bearing edge,.....completely flat all the way across...the idea is to offer a way to change the bearing edge. Here's one way....mill out a center channel that will accept different "bearing edge profile rings" you guys will invent. The removable, reusable, (fragile!) bearing edge profile rings, made from wood, or metal? will fit into the channel in the shell perfectly and would give you the ability to see how different bearing edge profiles affect the tone. Under pressure, I believe that the rings will perform adequately enough to evaluate what different bearing edge profiles...30 degrees, double 45's, triple 50s!... do to the tone of the drum. The beauty is it's an apples to apples comparison, given the same shell. Does that tickle your fancy any? I WISH someone would offer that. Heck, you could take it a step further and make a whole set of them based on the changeable bearing edge capability. You could make the rings from brass....copper....ooooh...titanium OH THE GEEKDOM!

Last edited by larryace; 10-31-2011 at 07:37 PM.
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  #32  
Old 10-31-2011, 09:10 PM
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KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

I think the idea is cool.

It brings to mind a video I saw comparing 3 Craviatto (same wood & depth) snares recently.
One had their "normal" edges, one had rounded tops/"normal" bottom, and the third had "normal" top, rounded bottom edges.

It was pretty cool to hear the differences, and a great way to get to know what sounds you like.

A YouTube comparison woul be great for all of us who wouldn't be able to make the trip!
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  #33  
Old 10-31-2011, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

I'm writing this from a friends iPhone because i'm as far away from a Computer with internetconnection as can be in western Europe.

I'm proud to be considered a special guest!

Let's try Out some drums!
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  #34  
Old 11-01-2011, 12:00 AM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

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Originally Posted by sticks4drums View Post
After being on these sites for the last couple of years, one thing I have realized, and this is you biggest obstacle, is that people are very brand loyal. It doesn't even matter how good the company is at this particular time in history, they just want that name on the bass drum.
For me, it's not what goes on the bass drum but a matter of trust.

If I was looking for a great kit with no concern for cost, storage or lugging I'd first be thinking of the brands with a good rep. For instance, at the moment I'd be thinking Yammies because they always get a good rap in whatever area they get involved in.

However, if a kit was priced right and sounded great, then I could be swayed. What makes that job harder is that in drum shops you don't have uniformity of tuning or heads. This is partially due to the fact that kids beat the daylights out of them, partially because you can't know what genre each customer is wanting to play, and partially because it's expensive to maintain great heads that are well tuned on every kit in the showroom.
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  #35  
Old 11-01-2011, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

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I'm writing this from a friends iPhone because i'm as far away from a Computer with internetconnection as can be in western Europe.

I'm proud to be considered a special guest!

Let's try Out some drums!
Sounds like you're somewhere in Yorkshire already!
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  #36  
Old 11-01-2011, 02:03 AM
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Andy I think it's a wonderful idea that the majority of drummers will go for in a big way. It's almost too good to be true, a facility like you envision. We need innovators like you to raise the game of drum making/comparing/purchasing. In my mind, you put the product quality, and drummers before profits, and that is admirable. A facility like this....I can't see how you would NOT gain the admiration, respect and LOYALTY of your proposed clientele. If a manufacturer provided a facility like this, AND their drums are world class, top of the line instruments (like Dean and yours Guru drums)...I think the rest of the companies will be put at a severe disadvantage as far as catering to the drummer goes. Because how many majors offer different constructions? OK ringed and non ringed, but I don't think Tama offers steambent, stave or segmented shells, not to mention your radical new design.

By approaching drum making/selection as a science, I think you will create a new market of intelligent savvy drum buyers that would be able to see that anyone who provides a facility like this is clearly a game changer and deserves their support. With your product, and that facility, as long as it is handled in a fiscally responsible manner, I think you're gonna knock one outta the park. This kind of thing seems like it would appeal to the most intelligent, and most likely, the most well off, drummers. That's the kind of clientele that will propel your product, their word of mouth. It's not lowest common denominator. Let Pearl cover that right?
Guys, I've chosen Larry's post to reply to, but I could have chosen any one, because they're all great & valuable to me. Too many to reply to individually!

@Larry, thanks for chiming in. I thought this idea might appeal to you. On the bearing edge thing, funny you should mention that edge swap idea, because that's an experiment in the pipeline, & being seriously considered. As for using that principal for A-B comparisons, there's a few resonance transfer issues that need resolving, but that aside, it's better to have drums with varying edge combinations side by side. That way, you can do a real time comparison, rather than changing heads & retuning the same drum. We can make identical shells from the same matched board, so we know the shell characteristics will be the same. Not many manufacturers can say that eh!

@Pol, I know exactly where you're coming from, & for the record, I'd be very happy to have Yamaha as my default too :)

@Sticks. Nice idea with expanding the drum test facility to other areas. If things start to go well, that's a worthy consideration.

@Bob, it's in a barn/garage, but on my property. Understand your concerns, but every guest will be pre qualified to a degree.

@karl, yes, videos will be forthcoming as we progress with this.

@Grunt, yes, Youtube is a powerful tool that we need to engage with properly. My prototype kit video has received some interest, but we need to do more. I'm keen to make our videos very honest & transparent in their creation.

@AtomicFlapjack, a general drum store isn't in the plan. We're only thinking of this dedicated function.

@SickRick, ok, it's out of the bag. Lutz is my special guest this week! I'm only giving him one stick so I stand a fighting chance of retaining some playing credibility ;) Going to be fun. Soooo looking forward to it!

A big thanks to everyone for chiming in, & please keep the comments coming.
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  #37  
Old 11-01-2011, 05:53 AM
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LukeSnyder LukeSnyder is offline
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

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Cheers Luke, yes, but the purpose would be to cut through all the hype & get down to some straight A-B comparison. I think it will make for an interesting experience.
Right, thats the type of education I was talking about, even though I didn't say it, haha. I sometimes forget that people can't see what I was thinking while I'm posting! Regardless, I do think it is a great idea. I think the difficult part would be working out logistics, really; I have a feeling travel expenses would probably be the single largest deterrent for most people.
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  #38  
Old 11-01-2011, 08:24 AM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

Honestly I just feel like there is apart missing to this and I can't put my finger on it. I think of music shops alot like I think of car dealers. You go to look around and maybe check things out. If your really interested in making a purchase then they will let you go for a test drive. This is almost the same buisness model that a place like guitar center uses. But let's say you want something nicer. Like maybe a porche or a Lamborghini..
You still go to a car dealer - tho much nicer and exclusive - and if your income checks out they will take you for a test drive. Then sure enough if you see fit, you can order a custom car right there at the same place.

I think you could maybe just make a drum shop that's really nice, with all the things you listed, and enable people to test out and then order a drum set. But I think the key just might be to label it as a one of a kind drum shop. Top of the line. Drummers like drum shops pretty much the world round. I'm afraid you might be cornering yourself if you label this as something else.

I am by no means a business savvy person so sorry if I'm wrong with this but that's just kind of how I felt it out.
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  #39  
Old 11-01-2011, 11:05 AM
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

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Originally Posted by zakhopper316 View Post
Honestly I just feel like there is apart missing to this and I can't put my finger on it. I think of music shops alot like I think of car dealers. You go to look around and maybe check things out. If your really interested in making a purchase then they will let you go for a test drive. This is almost the same buisness model that a place like guitar center uses. But let's say you want something nicer. Like maybe a porche or a Lamborghini..
You still go to a car dealer - tho much nicer and exclusive - and if your income checks out they will take you for a test drive. Then sure enough if you see fit, you can order a custom car right there at the same place.

I think you could maybe just make a drum shop that's really nice, with all the things you listed, and enable people to test out and then order a drum set. But I think the key just might be to label it as a one of a kind drum shop. Top of the line. Drummers like drum shops pretty much the world round. I'm afraid you might be cornering yourself if you label this as something else.

I am by no means a business savvy person so sorry if I'm wrong with this but that's just kind of how I felt it out.
Thanks for your perspective, I really appreciate the time you've taken to post. This facility will fulfil the function of a showroom for Guru Drumworks. That's it's role, but the idea of making it a true trial experience is designed to make the trip out meaningful & informative. Moving the plan to a full drum shop would entail a whole different league of expenditure (premises, licences, etc, etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSnyder View Post
Right, thats the type of education I was talking about, even though I didn't say it, haha. I sometimes forget that people can't see what I was thinking while I'm posting! Regardless, I do think it is a great idea. I think the difficult part would be working out logistics, really; I have a feeling travel expenses would probably be the single largest deterrent for most people.
Yes Luke, taking the trip here is a big barrier, but we have to start somewhere. The motivation for this is born of the need for prospective Guru Drumworks customers to have the opportunity to try out the drums. It's either this, or go the retail route with all the attendant margin & demonstration quality concerns. I'm trying to add real value to the experience by offering a true A-B comparison opportunity, including the customer's existing/favourite drums should he or she wish to. Even if a prospective customer doesn't buy anything from us, at least they'll go away with a pretty good idea of what material & construction specification suits their needs.
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  #40  
Old 11-01-2011, 01:58 PM
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PQleyR PQleyR is offline
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Default Re: I have a plan. Opinions sought.

Maybe Luke's right. While we all know the only way to know how things sound properly is to hear them in person...if you're A/Bing then a recording will still show the differences, regardless of colouration of the sound by the recording equipment. I think your best bet is to focus on making good recordings of the comparisons, probably with video for the most multimedia appeal. This will be much, much cheaper and anyone in the world will be able to access it. Of course you can still have people come to see things in person, but I expect you'll be doing that anyway.
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