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  #1  
Old 06-19-2010, 06:29 PM
Geoff J Geoff J is offline
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Default Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Look at the results of this poll I started
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/sho...d.php?t=736243

Alot of nopes
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  #2  
Old 06-19-2010, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

I'd vote "Nope" too, and I'm a drummer.
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  #3  
Old 06-19-2010, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

In denial because of what exactly? Because they disagree?

I love playing drums, but I don't think mastering the drums is "better" than mastering any other instrument.

Quote:
Killer drumsounds is what makes an album sound awesome
Yep. As well as killer guitar, bass, vocals etc...if anything is bad, the album is bad. Everything has to be awesome for an album to sound awesome.

Quote:
Killer drummers are what can make a band of ok musicians sound great
Not completely true. Imagine a band with amazing musicians apart from the lead guitarist, or the vocalist, or heck, anything really. A killer drummer can make a band sound better, but so could any instrument.

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  #4  
Old 06-19-2010, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

from a physical perspective - I find 4 limb independence to eclipse the Two Hands required for guitar.

Particularly in music forms which require a much more demanding skillset, such as Fusion.

I can understand how Four on The floor rock or blues would kinda level the playing field, but when we are talking about some of those Latin beats where a single drummer is keeping a clave, and then doing the beats around that, it just seems that the skillset required surpasses the other instruments when we are talking about music forms which are more demanding
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  #5  
Old 06-19-2010, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

There's much more to music than physicality though.
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Old 06-19-2010, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

I think they both require a lot of skill. I get the occasional complement on my playing from people saying, "It must be tough to coordinate all 4 limbs to at the same time..."

I believe it's just as difficult, if not more so, to coordinate all 10 fingers to be independent from each other to play guitar or piano.
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  #7  
Old 06-19-2010, 06:55 PM
Geoff J Geoff J is offline
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Two-Shoes View Post
There's much more to music than physicality though.
Well, the original premise was talking about physical mastery of the instrument, no ?

I mean i coulda started a thread about the Easter Bunny, and then someone could say, "Well there's other holiday seasons, too"
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Old 06-19-2010, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff J View Post
from a physical perspective - I find 4 limb independence to eclipse the Two Hands required for guitar.

Particularly in music forms which require a much more demanding skillset, such as Fusion.

I can understand how Four on The floor rock or blues would kinda level the playing field, but when we are talking about some of those Latin beats where a single drummer is keeping a clave, and then doing the beats around that, it just seems that the skillset required surpasses the other instruments when we are talking about music forms which are more demanding
Guitarists, however, have to have extremely coordinated, individual and complex control of their fingers (much more so than even the most extreme users of finger stick technique). Your "two limbs vs four limbs" comparison is pretty flawed.

In addition to that, many guitar players use a lot of effects pedals on the floor, which often require a delicate and well-planned tap dance in order to switch them on and off when required. So in that sense, they definitely do need some four-way coordination.

I'd vote "Nope" in your poll. I've played guitar, drums, piano and euphonium and I didn't find any of them easier or harder to learn than the others; only different. If anything, drums might be easier... As a drummer, I don't have to worry about chords, but guitar players have to worry about rhythm, timing, dynamics and structure just as much as we do. In addition to that, they often have to coordinate all of this with at least one other band member (bass players, pianists, other guitar players, etc), while we can pretty much improvise fills and mess around a bit with grooves as long as we make it come back on the one (or whatever suits the music style in question)
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  #9  
Old 06-19-2010, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

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Originally Posted by Geoff J View Post
Well, the original premise was talking about physical mastery of the instrument, no ?

I mean i coulda started a thread about the Easter Bunny, and then someone could say, "Well there's other holiday seasons, too"
Bit of a poor comparison, but I'll swing with it.

Either way, guitarists also have to learn the same for fingers, as stated above. They have to be able to put their fingers and hands in very specific shapes, sometimes at fast tempos depending on the music.

"Two-handed wanking" - really? That bit destroyed your argument for me. Musicians should respect each other, it doesn't matter who has the most skill or has to put in the most effort. Additionally, everything depends on the music being played. A 4/4 standard rock beat might show 4-limb independence, but that doesn't mean it's physically superior just because a guitarist is only using two hands. What they're playing could be much more intense.
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  #10  
Old 06-19-2010, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff J View Post
Well, the original premise was talking about physical mastery of the instrument, no ?
The key word here is mastery ...

I think "physical" has little to do with that, if you are indeed at the master level then the skill-set involved although different physically puts you at a level that is above other musicains ...

As primarily a bassist myself (and no master by any means) I have had drummers ask me how does the right hand always know what the left is doing? It is as much a mystery to them as the 4 independent limb thing is to me.

As an aside, I personally think the genre has little to do with it as far as mastering the instrument. One of the most badd-azz drummers I know played rockabilly ... classically trained he took it to a whole new level, and could hang with about any drummer from any genre, how good is he ... well if you ever make it to the Memphis Drum Shop look up as you walk in the door and you will see a full framed signed picture of him, along with all of the other signed pictures on their wall of world class drummers!
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  #11  
Old 06-19-2010, 08:19 PM
Geoff J Geoff J is offline
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

One of the biggest revelations I had regarding this was at a P-funk show

The guitars, Keys, and horns were not mixed that well, but the drum/bass mix was kickin' hard - and it didn't matter, because the whole crowd was groovin'

The other instruments are really an after thought when it comes to what really makes a crowd groove - I know that this point is slightly off topic - but it does show how great drumming really eclipses great guitar playing, great keyboarding, etc . . because an audience doesn't really groove to that

However, for true funk or latin drumming, a better than average skill set is needed to master those grooves, so this does tie in
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  #12  
Old 06-19-2010, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Drums sometimes get a bad rap from people.

I had a customer who was a guitarist & was building a studio at his house. He bought the the biggest POS guitar center brand drum set to use as his house kit & for his personal recordings. As he was leaving he said, "I'm going to lay down drums tracks to my songs, but I have never played before. Drums are not as hard to play as real insrtuments like guitar & piano, are they?" I just had to bit my tounge & pretend to be busy, lol!

Every instrument can be difficult at some point. I think maybe piano or violin might be the hardest to play. Drummers are sometimes viewed as 2nd class musicians b/c its not really a melodic thing. I have never encountered this attitude in most people I have played with. I play guitar, drums, vocals, & have taken 2 college music theory classes. So I feel like while I'm the "drummer," I know my shit. Only ignorant players like I mentioned would think the drums are a simple undertaking. Likewise only arrogant drummers would consider their playing more complex than anything else.
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  #13  
Old 06-19-2010, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Most other musicians like the concept of a drummer more than the reality of a drummer.
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  #14  
Old 06-19-2010, 11:24 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

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Originally Posted by theindian View Post
Only ignorant players like I mentioned would think the drums are a simple undertaking. Likewise only arrogant drummers would consider their playing more complex than anything else.
This is spot on. Any musician who doesn't respect the importance of the other instruments in the band is not a musician you want to play with. Some of the responses from guitarists on the other forum are pretty infuriating to me, but I'm not going to even bother trying to respond. Honestly, the only people I've ever met with the "X instrument is better and more difficult than Y instrument" attitude are people who sit at home practicing their instrument all day, but rarely if ever actually play with other musicians. No experienced musician will ever have that attitude, because they've been around long enough to appreciate how much they rely on other musicians to sound good.

I do believe that the drummer can make or break a band. But so can anybody else. You need all the musicians there to make music. It's a team effort.

Most of the time, the drummer probably will have the most physically demanding job in the band. But I would argue playing a melodic instrument like guitar is more mentally demanding. They're both difficult to master in their own way, and trying to compare them is useless.
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  #15  
Old 06-20-2010, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

I played trumpet, saxophone, keyboards, and bass guitar before picking up sticks. Each requires its own mindset and disciplines that simply do not cleanly equate.

OP, you may prefer playing the drums to playing the guitar, as I do, but to then go on to insist that the drums are more complex than guitar is pointless. For every one of us there is someone who finds fulfillment on another instrument. Instead of bringing musicians together, discussions like this drive them apart in confusion, misunderstanding, and ignorance.
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  #16  
Old 06-20-2010, 01:20 AM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

All this being said, I think we can all agree drummers are, by quite a wide margin, much much cooler.
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  #17  
Old 06-20-2010, 02:04 AM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

I think drummers have more responsibility, and are cooler, and are the solid foundation on the bottom, and the cherries on top. Drums are more an instrument that is felt, most instruments are heard. Drums are one of the few things that can't truly be compared to any other instrument.
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  #18  
Old 06-20-2010, 02:30 AM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga View Post
Most other musicians like the concept of a drummer more than the reality of a drummer.
Agree - we make a lot of noise, take up space, take time to set up and, absurdly, we want to do musicianly things like practice and tune our instruments even thought it's only stupid drums.

Drums are the most deceptively difficult instrument. Generating a sound is a breeze - no fussing with embouchure or having to fret barre chords. Drumming would be really, really easy if not for a few small things ....

1. It really does help ALOT (one word) to play in time

2. When it comes to beating a drum, there's beating and there's beating. Drummers' feel is often taken for granted

3. Most percussion instruments are staccato and there's nowhere to hide if #1 isn't happening. Legato is so much more forgiving.

On the other hand, with most instruments the margin for error is a matter of millimetres; I really noticed that when I played keys with a band for a while. On drums I could just whale away at gigs but when I gigged on keyboards I was staring at the keyboard so intently you'd think I was worried they'd up and run away if my diligence faltered.

But in the end I agree with jiltednut, drums are the coolest instrument - daylight second :)

PS. Al, you're a one-man band!
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Old 06-20-2010, 02:34 AM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

This may have already been said but, i think us drummers are in denial. I mean come on, playing basic rock and even basic funk isn't too hard. And we are all talk about how groove is king, and its hard to have great groove, imo, its not as hard as many people think it is. In jazz very advanced funk and latin stuff, yes drums are VERY VERY hard, and you can actually use them as an artist, but other kinds? Regaee (cant spell) rock blues, all that, if you have been plaing drums for a few years you would be okay. And for funk, after you can play besic beats, you just have to work at funkafising them!

There are a lot of guys on here bitching about how drummers are so important. And they are, don't get me wrong for a second, but we are not more important in any music, it really is a group effort. I really think people are just jelous that we can't do as many solos, and guitarists can be selfish and get away with it. Yeah, it can be a bummer to play the same thing in a certain group setting for a long time, while guitarists trade, but that really in our tough luck! Get into more complicated music, and you will have more control and influence. Just before you say it, I am not in anyway a jazz or latin nazi! Nothing better than a cool backbeat, thats why its so much better to do originals than covers, you can come up with a complicated beat that you don't mind playing for 5mins straight! today i straightned out an afro cuban groove and it made such a funky beat. But i think we are quite in denial, but why is it always a compitition? Its not us against them, we are all one baby!
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  #20  
Old 06-20-2010, 05:52 AM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Don't forget most guitar players sing as well. Singing and playing is pretty tough.

I think all instruments are hard to play well. I'd vote nope myself.
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Old 06-20-2010, 07:14 AM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

I envy stringed instrument players. They get to be in front, have a great view, get a lot of face time. They can really connect with the audience easier than us by virtue of their position. Plus, you have to admit, it's just way cooler to be able to move about while you play. They automatically get a certain amount of musical respect I think as opposed to drummers from the average civilian.
The bass is just such a badass instrument. I can play some guitar, and I am going to be trading lessons w/ a bass player after the summer. She wants to learn drums, I want to learn bass. But it's no competition, we are shipmates. Every instrument is delightfully difficult to play well. We all need each other and depend on each other to do their share and we need to respect our mates, not try to measure one dicipline against the other.
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  #22  
Old 06-20-2010, 11:26 AM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Drum kit is the one instrument that a non musician walks up to and say to themself ,"hey, I can do that". Then they try it. The dawn of realization on their face every time is priceless.
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Old 06-20-2010, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Drum kit is the one instrument that a non musician walks up to and say to themself ,"hey, I can do that". Then they try it. The dawn of realization on their face every time is priceless.
Yep. I talked about drums being "deceptively difficult" but I think your post drives home that idea more clearly.

Ha! It's easy! Anyone can do that ... after a ton of practice, like any other instrument, that is.

... and they are waaay cool as well :)
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Old 06-20-2010, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Yep. I talked about drums being "deceptively difficult" but I think your post drives home that idea more clearly.

Ha! It's easy! Anyone can do that ... after a ton of practice, like any other instrument, that is.

... and they are waaay cool as well :)
Pretty much all instruments are deceptively difficult. Piano is certainly one of those instruments that doesn't get it's due as far as people realizing how difficult it is to play it well.

As far as guitarists, let's just say I'd like see somebody else play solos like these with the use of only two fingers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoIJ4W7kXiQ
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Old 06-20-2010, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Good guitar players aren't.

Any musician that makes you feel 'lesser' is compensating for their own self perception.

Regardless of her skill or talent, she is a musician worth stepping away from.

Same holds true for people in general.
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  #26  
Old 06-20-2010, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

I'm in denial of my own playing. Don't really care that much what others think until I'm satisfied myself (= never). =P
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Old 06-20-2010, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael McDanial View Post
Pretty much all instruments are deceptively difficult. Piano is certainly one of those instruments that doesn't get it's due as far as people realizing how difficult it is to play it well.

As far as guitarists, let's just say I'd like see somebody else play solos like these with the use of only two fingers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoIJ4W7kXiQ
Yep, lots of subtle-but--important things that are not easy to do are needed to play any instrument well.

People's perceptions of drumming seem to fall into two camps. One side is amazed at the coordination required because they can't tell the difference between apparent independence and true limb independence. The other camp just sees drummers as hitting things and - hey! ... anyone can hit things, right?
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:24 AM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Yes, they are, trust me. I'm a doctor.
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  #29  
Old 06-21-2010, 06:42 AM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

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Yes, they are, trust me. I'm a doctor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IXCqvdbKHg
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Old 06-21-2010, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

All I have to say is, "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" Please, man. The guitar is hard as piss to play. And I mean, just play, not even play well. Seriously. I know of a huge ton of guitarists who can play drums, but not many drummers who can play guitar. That alone should tell you something. If it doesn't, then pick up an axe and see how many decades it takes to get to Hendrix's, Clapton's or Page's level.

And now for the smart answer. Guess what, again. It's SUBJECTIVE! Drums came very easily to me. So did piano. Guitar, on the other hand, is just killing me. I could never play the flute. My dad and his buddy think it's easy as hell to play guitar, but they have trouble with the drums. My wife plays the piano like it's nothing. Different people, different traits, different difficulty levels.

P.S: The OP's comments in the other thread are just retarded. The one about the ditch digger made no sense. And of course how he tries to sidestep the original poll/question with the drummer's importance. Man. Convoluted much?

Last edited by motojt; 06-21-2010 at 06:15 PM.
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  #31  
Old 06-21-2010, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Whoever said "apples and oranges" on the original poll seems to have it right in my opinion. I'm fairly positive that the greatest drummers in the world probably put in the same amount of time and effort into learning their craft that the greatest guitarists in the world did, as well as the greatest bassists, cellists, pianists, tuba players and accordion players did. And none of those players are better or worse than their counterparts on any other instrument. Im just having trouble seeing the fruitfulness of this discussion. (sorry if i sounded a little snotty there, but im just sayin')
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

@bam, it's called flame bait. For some reason people like making threads to start up debates. I always imagine the OP's of these threads leaning back in their chair eating popcorn while reading responses.
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  #33  
Old 06-21-2010, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

no flame bait intended , just sharing my opinion. I truly feel that Drums requires a higher skill set to MASTER from a physical perspective. I listed my reasons

I get kind of peeved at my fellow guitar brethren who just want the drummer to be nothing more than a glorified drum machine. I'd be amazed if there were any drummers around here who haven't enncountered that.

I believe the root of such attitude is the guitarist's lack of respect for the skill it takes to MASTER the kit.

I guess I am looking at the drumkit from primarily a Funk/Fusion, Afro-Carribean, Bebop perspective as far as skill level is concerned. Those are the various lenses that I am looking through

@james - do you have any clips of your playing - I'd love to check 'em out
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Old 06-21-2010, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

i'm actually offended by that. guitarists lack of respect for drummers?!?!?!

i play lead and rhythm guitar, for over 20 years now and i have never once had any disrespect for any musician. i may not like their sound or what they do or their style of music but i respect them for doing it and have never bad mouthed another musician in my life. none of the musicians i hang out with have bad mouthed any other musician to my knowledge.

for me to learn guitar way back when was a lot harder then for me to learn drums now, does that mean drums are easy? not at all, i'll be the first one here to say i'm envious of 99% of the people on this site cuz i'll probably never be as good as they are. but now i have a fundamental understanding of music and theory so more makes sense to me so things come quicker, i don't have to constantly ask the teacher "what's that word mean". so yeah it's easier...

do i see a drummer as a glorified drum machine? would i waste my time learning if i did? hell i'd just buy a drum machine and not have an extra ego floating around me. yeah i'd probably be dropping thousands of dollars on a drum kit and hundreds each month to learn what it is most of you already know, just so i can feel superior because i can do it to. NO, i WANT to know what it is you guys do and how you do it and understand all the subtitles that go with it.

this is my feeling and i know most other musician as well have something similar they believe. drums are the back bone and heart beat of the music, bass is the rhythmic breathing, the guitar is the emotion and voice. lose any of those and you might as well have a brain dead vegetable and start considering pulling the plug...
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Old 06-21-2010, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

@Geoff J, I'm not narcissistic enough to record myself, mainly because I suck. The only recordings that exist of me are videos taken by others and a couple songs for which I did original drum tracks.

I posted a lot of shitty replies this morning, partly because I'm god damn sleepy, but mostly because of the attitude I'm replying to. You guys who like to make comparo threads really need to grasp the concept of opinion and subjectivity. Good, bad, better, best, hard, easy. Those are all opinions. What you should have said is, "Drums are hard FOR ME to play." And, "It's easy FOR ME to play the guitar."

This actually just happened to me last week. I was listening to a song by Them Crooked Vultures thinking, "Shit, man, Dave Grohl is a beast! I could never play that!" Then I dug up a tab, banged around on the kit for a bit and went, "Oh, never mind." Then a couple days later the Queens of the Stone Age and TCV song books I ordered came in. So I thought, "Ok, let me try an easy one." I opened the QotSA book to A Song For The Deaf, grabbed my SG and started contorting. After about ten minutes my hand, wrist, and forearm were aching to the point I had to stop. I couldn't even manage the main riff at any recognizable tempo. But again, that's me. I have a hard ass time playing strings, but drums and keys always just seemed easy to me.

Grumbling aside, I fully agree with your point that drummers are often taken for granted. You can't have a good band without a good drummer, period. The guys I play with know this, and they are very appreciative to have even a crappy drummer like me playing with them. However, the point about good guitarists being a dime a dozen is horse shit. I know a bunch of guitarists, each with their own style, tastes, etc. To find one who plays well... in the style of music you play... with similar tastes... is not easy. Example you say? My wife's cousin plays a mean 'tar. Unfortunately he mostly taps. He likes weird emo music with 80ish tappy runs. He doesn't like Hendrix, Led Zep, or Cream, and while he technically CAN play some of their songs, they sound like crap because he's not "into" it. Consequently I wouldn't want to be in a band with him.

The moral? No one is a dime a dozen. We all have our own unique mix of whatever it is that makes us who we are. Stop taking the drummer, guitarist, bassist, singer, etc. for granted. Be glad you have someone to play with or you might find yourself "jamming" along to the radio.
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Old 06-22-2010, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Ask a bandleader who they hire first and base their band around. 90% of the time it's the drummer. That's a fact. And let's get past the power rock foursome /or threesome/ for just a moment because it's only one link on the chain In jazz for example, guitar is often a support instrument where the bass is the string that reigns supreme and dictates the highest wage.

We get far too much into this music isn't a contest, it's all equal vibe when the reality is different. This doesn't make drummers better musicians, but in many scenarios it makes the importance of a good drummer far more valuable.

There's also nothing wrong with comparison threads. Even those claiming not to care find these topics interesting, and they hurt no one. I think sometimes people need to learn where the gate is first before they start telling people how to guard it.

There's also good and bad, and yeah you can tell the difference. But that's another thread.

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Old 06-22-2010, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

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Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
Ask a bandleader who they hire first and base their band around. 90% of the time it's the drummer. That's a fact. And let's get past the power rock foursome /or threesome/ for just a moment because it's only one link on the chain In jazz for example, guitar is often a support instrument where the bass is the string that reigns supreme and dictates the highest wage.

We get far too much into this music isn't a contest, it's all equal vibe when the reality is different. This doesn't make drummers better musicians, but in many scenarios it makes the importance of a good drummer far more valuable.

There's also nothing wrong with comparison threads. Even those claiming not to care find these topics interesting, and they hurt no one. I think sometimes people need to learn where the gate is first before they start telling people how to guard it.

There's also good and bad, and yeah you can tell the difference. But that's another thread.

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I especially love the fact that some guitarists throw at you." Look at all the best bands, all have great guitar!".....but look back at the last 100years or so and you will realise that the sax, bass, drums, piano etc, were present in all of the great groups. Go back even further and percussion was the thing to be into. Really, guitar is a modern find, and can't be called the greatest instrument.In some situations, the guitar is very important, other not so much. It all depends, but in every song that has drums, they matter! Kind of funny aswell, in many rock songs where the guitar is up front, the playing is not exceptional, but in a lot of jazz settings where the guitar is more of an accomplice, it is way harder....think so, you obviously have more experience with this Matt
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Old 06-22-2010, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

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I get kind of peeved at my fellow guitar brethren who just want the drummer to be nothing more than a glorified drum machine. I'd be amazed if there were any drummers around here who haven't enncountered that.
Actually, every guitarist I've played with has tended to be encouraging. If anything, they give me the impression they'd like me to cut loose more. Guess it depends on the guitar player.

As far as drummers being more important in a band than guitar or some other instruments, I'm inclined to agree. If the drummer isn't solid and emotionally tuned into the music then nothing's going to sound quite right; dodgy drumming really throws other musicians off. I notice that if I'm "on" then the band as a whole will usually be "on" and vice versa. When a drummer is fully tuned in it creates clarity for the other players.

On the other hand, if the drums are spot on and other instruments are a bit ragged the groove will be affected but not as badly as the other way around.
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Old 06-22-2010, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

Our guitarist has told me couple of times this quote "if you want to be a great guitarist find your self a great drummer first". I don't remember who said it but I find it quite true. Try to find even single great guitarist who hasn't played with great drummer(s). Sad part is that our guitarist has only me. xD
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Old 06-22-2010, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: Are Guitarists in Denial about the Drumset ?

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Ask a bandleader who they hire first and base their band around. 90% of the time it's the drummer. That's a fact.
Really? Most bands I know of (local, indy, pro, and famous) the drummer was one of the last to be hired and they usually went through multiple drummers. That's how it is in the multitude of flavors of rock. Maybe it's different in jazz, I dunno, but if it is you should change your statement to, "Ask a jazz band leader..."

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Originally Posted by mattsmith View Post
There's also good and bad, and yeah you can tell the difference. But that's another thread.
Yes, there is definitely good and bad. However, everyone has their own definition of good and bad which is why it's subjective. You can prove that 1 + 1 = 2. You can't prove that Joey Jordison > Travis Barker > Dave Grohl > Ringo Starr > Charlie Watts > Buddy Rich.

@JPW, that's not really the case. Look at Les Paul, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Carlos Santana, and Jack White. All great guitarists. Some have played with great drummers, yes, but they were great guitarists long before they ever even met those drummers.
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