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  #81  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: THE SNARE TUNING THREAD.

hey guys,
despite all the information posted by several members in here I still have a question or two regarding the tuning of my snare. I've been experimenting by tuning either my resonant higher or lower than my batter and v.v. , however i still can't get the sound I want. I'm using a fairly new model of PDP and sticking mostly to rock, hard rock and other similiar genres. The snare sound im aiming for is expressed fairly well through this bands recordings:

http://www.purevolume.com/theclassiccrime
song titled "The Fight" gives you a clear sound of the snare.

With all of that said, any info on achieving that snare sound or snare advice in general would be greatly appreciated.

-Thanks
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  #82  
Old 07-28-2006, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: THE SNARE TUNING THREAD.

Patrick,

First, let me preface this response by saying that I didn't click the link and listen to the song you mentioned because I feel my response doesn't require it.
That being said, I've found over the years that people will hear a sound on a recording, like it, then pull their hair out trying to emulate that sound.
Why?
Because it could be (and has, many times before) that the sound their trying to emulate cannot be reproduced with just a drum.
Effects are added in so "professionally", that the original acoustic sound doesn't seem affected.
I bet if you were at the session that the track was recorded at, and were able to listen to just that snare drum, you'd find that it probably sounded quite different from the finalized track you referred us to.

...however, if you think you can do it, and just need a little "directionalizing", I'd suggest you check out this link.
If it can't help you, then you're probably stuck.


Elvis
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  #83  
Old 07-28-2006, 03:52 AM
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Default Re: snare tuning

Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmoon
sorry for all the threads but what the best tuning for my snare to get maximum senseitivity out of it i have a metal snare the size it 14x6 with ambassador batter and ive forgoten the name of the reso
Tune each head so that it vibrates for the longest amount of time.
Set the snare tension so that it's about 1/4 - 1/2 turn tighter than the point at which the snares stop rattling at.

Elvis
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  #84  
Old 08-22-2006, 02:03 AM
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Default snare tuning

i was wondering if anybody had any insight on making a yamaha stage custom snare drum get a fatter sound. I want a big rock sound but i dont like playing it when the batter head is too loose. I also would like some tips on eliminating the ping. I, have three moon gel strips on it and it still does it a bit. I am in the process of recording also, so if you can give me some micking tips for the snare drum that would be great too. The ping is being picked up by the mic and is a bit overbearing. I am using protoools but am fairly new to it.
thanks for any advice.
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  #85  
Old 08-22-2006, 04:06 AM
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Default Re: snare tuning

Use an Evans HD Dry. For the mic use a Sm57 about 2" above the head at the rim pointing about 3" towards the center of the drum. Thats what I use on a 14X6 1/2 steel Export snare. I think it sounds pretty good.
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  #86  
Old 08-22-2006, 04:31 AM
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Default Re: snare tuning

Try loosening your resonant head a bit for a fatter sound. But other than that the Tuning Bible is THE website for this stuff.
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  #87  
Old 08-22-2006, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: snare tuning

There is already a thread about snare tuning, I'm sure you'll find what you are looking for in there.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...=tuning+thread
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  #88  
Old 08-22-2006, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: snare tuning

My solution was to buy a new snare.

In my opinion the snare is the weakest link in the Stage Custom set up.
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  #89  
Old 08-23-2006, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: snare tuning

Check your tuning. Even a relatively inexpensive snare can be tuned to only need 1 piece of moongel, and you are using 3! Some drums will naturally ring, but I would say if you still have this much ring you are tuning the drum incorrectly. Take off the heads and start over.

Take the snares off, and put the drum on a piece of carpet, batter side down. Tune the reso head slightly higher than the batter. Once the reso is tuned, then turn it over and place it on carpet reso side down. Tune the head SLOWLY until you reach your desired sound. Patience is the key here. Sometimes my snare takes over an hour to tune right. Take your time with it.
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  #90  
Old 08-23-2006, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: snare tuning

For a fat sound (not loose, FAT) on those snares I find that something like a REMO Powerstroke head work best... medium to medium-high tension batter, medium tension resonant... check the snares, maybe you need a heftier one, so you can get more snare sound with a looser strainer, but this is not likely... also the sticks... get something perhaps with a bit more wood on it and most importantly the strokes... a sweet spot for that sound is slightly below the center, with a bit of rimshot.

Good luck.
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  #91  
Old 02-27-2007, 06:42 PM
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Default 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Hi All,

I have a 13x9 Yamaha Absoulte Beech drum (13"diameter) I have an Evans coated EC2 head on top and the Yamaha / Remo Ambassador on bottom. Trying to find a good blend between top and bottom head and also get a good punch from the drum as well. Currently using a drumdial I have the reso head at 78 and the batter at 75. It sounds OK, but I guess I'm getting fussy in my old age. Any tip is greatly appreciated. Oh yeah, I'm playing 50's & 60's music with a bit of Country if that helps.

Thanks
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  #92  
Old 02-27-2007, 09:14 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

This size tom is my hardest to tune also. Seems like it wants to have more than one tone to it. With one moon gel it sounds dead, without any its resonates forever. I keep playing with the bottom head and its getting better. Just keep fussing is all I can tell you.
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Last edited by GruntersDad; 02-28-2007 at 03:20 AM.
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  #93  
Old 02-28-2007, 07:55 AM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

I use a 9 x 13 rack tom also. What I do is tune the batter head first, and then slowly tension the reso head until it sounds just right. Basically, I tune it like I would any other drum, but I have to spend a little more time with this one.
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  #94  
Old 02-28-2007, 02:50 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

I'm having the same problem with my Ludwig 13' I have g2 on the batter and stock ludwig on the reso.I've spent hours and still can't get a good sound.
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  #95  
Old 02-28-2007, 03:05 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Maybe we could all have matching window planters. I had to end up doing the same thing. Got the batter lugs all the same, tone, and then did the reso head. Why this drum is difficult ....don't know.
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  #96  
Old 02-28-2007, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

I can only echo this,,when i do get a musical tone out mine [Gretsch] i end up changing the other to match it,,i find it likes a more tighter tension, [but the room is influential] it then cuts more out front. and that is something to keep in mind, we may not be hearing how much bottom the drum projects from where we sit,,record it, and tweek the EQ and see from there, but i agree with doing the batter, and then spending time on the reso.
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  #97  
Old 02-28-2007, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Thanks for all the input. I took off the EC2 Batter and put the original remo single ply batter back on. Brought the tension down on both batter and reso. (just above wrinkles) When I get home from work tonight I will start fine tuning again. (my poor wife) It should not be this hard???
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  #98  
Old 02-28-2007, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

I remember reading an article years ago, when Neil Peart made the move from Tama to Ludwig. He tested a bunch of different kits side by side, and he said the one drum that really showed the difference between kits was the thirteen inch. I have no idea why it should be so, but it seems many people struggle with this size.

I have a 10X13, and right now it sits in the top of my closet. I simply can't get it to sound as good as my other drums, though I always suspected it was some flaw in this drum rather than a problem with 13's. Maybe I'm wrong about that, now that I see how many others have trouble with this size.
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  #99  
Old 03-01-2007, 03:03 AM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Well the single ply were a bit better and punchier but rang a bit too much :-(

So, now I put on a a Remo smooth coated Emperor which I had on my Pearl Masters.They were very easy drums to tune (however they were different size toms 10" & 12") why did I sell those to my brother anyway?

I tuned the tom batter a bit above wrinkle and tuned the reso a bit tighter and also used one moon gel and it's sounding better. I would like the tone a bit higher but when I start to tweek the batter head the drum starts loosin it's punch.

Oh well, time for a cold one.
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  #100  
Old 03-01-2007, 03:27 AM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Tune the batter and the reso the same pitch with the method of the Drum Tuning Bible.
I tune my reso a little higher than my batter after.
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  #101  
Old 03-02-2007, 01:56 AM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Well I think I'm ready to close this thread.

I followed the drum tuning bible as best I could, brought both the top and bottom head to read 75 on the drum dial and used the emperor batter and ambasador on the reso side and it's sounding pretty good. Now I will be gigging the next two night and that will be the real test. Whatever happened to the 70's? Off came the bottom heads, duck tape the batters a bit and away you go lol
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  #102  
Old 03-04-2007, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Hi again,

Success, I played two shows this weekend and was pleasntly surprised at the tone of my 13x9 tom. The tom had a nice rich warm tone to it and it felt great to the touch. The first night I played without any dampening at all and was was perfect. The next night the accoustics were great, a bigger room and I found by putting one moon gel on the punch was perfect.

Thanks for all your input regarding this tom. Again both the reso and batter at approx 75 on the drum dial (medium tension is my estimate) Smoothe Remo emperor on top, clear Ambassador on bottom.
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  #103  
Old 03-04-2007, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

my 13" just sits next to my drum kit. i play a 4 piece now ( 12" and 16" floor) and i just cant tune the 13" so i leave it out. i wouldn't be using it even if it sounded good but i have tried and i just cant tune it well enough to like it.and i wasted money on new heads :-(
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  #104  
Old 03-04-2007, 10:49 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Today i found success! I changed my 13 to a renaissance emperor, and tuned it a bit high,,the reso is a wee lower, and what a difference! like having a new drum!
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  #105  
Old 03-04-2007, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Ironically,my 9 X 13 rack tom is the only good sounding drum on my entire kit. Now,if I can only get my 14 X 14 and 16 X 16 toms to sound good,I'd be thrilled.
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  #106  
Old 03-04-2007, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Hey 2bSticks,

I also have used a drum dial and have experienced the same problem, only on different sizes. The best advice I could give you is this:
1. Take the drum off of the drum set and place it on a hard surface
2. With the drum dial, get the drum to your desired sound
3. Place the drum back on the drum set and hit it a few times.
If it sounds good, your done, if not try the following....
4. Remove all muffling.
5. With the drum still on the drum set, gently put your finger in the middle of the batter head.
6. Using your drum key, about 1/2" to 1" away from each lug, tap the head. You should hear a clear, high-pitched ring. If not, move closer or further to the lug.
7. Each lug should have the same pitch as the entire drum. When all of the lugs are equal sounding, you are done.

Ask me if you are confused about anything. Sometimes I am bad at explaining things.

Best of luck,
Christian
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  #107  
Old 03-05-2007, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Glad you had success. I really like the pitch range that the thirteen occupies, I'd just like to know why they seem to be difficult for lots of folks to tune.
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  #108  
Old 03-05-2007, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDDrummer View Post
Glad you had success. I really like the pitch range that the thirteen occupies, I'd just like to know why they seem to be difficult for lots of folks to tune.
Its the number 13,,,,cursed you say?,,perhaps a little voodum is in store...
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  #109  
Old 03-13-2007, 03:57 AM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

For what it's worth, I have a yamaha maple custom absolute drum in the 13x9 size. I tune to notes so my toms are in musical intervals. I have a 10/13/16 combo. I tune them in fifths. The 13" is an F on top and a G#, a minor third higher, on the bottom. Coated ambassador on top, clear ambassador on the bottom. The drum is big, powerful, lots of tone and has just enough sustain with absolutely no muffling. I never muffle them ever. It sounds great. Just some more ammo for your tuning arsenal.
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  #110  
Old 03-13-2007, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

I'm old school so I never really got into tuning my drums to notes. My question is: What do you use to hear the note, where would you get one and how much does it cost? Also are you looking for the pitch at each lug or just at the center of the head. thanks
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  #111  
Old 03-14-2007, 04:16 AM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bsticks View Post
I'm old school so I never really got into tuning my drums to notes. My question is: What do you use to hear the note, where would you get one and how much does it cost? Also are you looking for the pitch at each lug or just at the center of the head. thanks
I'm old school too, but I learned and mastered this technique years ago and it works great everytime. It eliminates unwanted overtones, snare buzz and really makes your toms sound great as a whole. Anyway, I use a pitch pipe. It's portable, easy to use and It costs about $10. It's round and has all the notes on it including sharps and flats. Here's what I do....

I tune the top head so that the pitch at each lug is equal, then I find what note that is on the pitch pipe. For my 13" tom, the pitch at each lug is an F on the top head. Then I turn the drum over and do the same on the bottom, only I tune it 3 notes higher to a G# ( a minor third). What that does is this....it creates a melodic interval between the top and bottom head so there are no weird frequencies. It shortens the sustain of the tom and rounds out the sound so to speak, throwing the sound back up at you making it real punchy. The shortened sustain is nice on floor toms especially when they can sometimes ring forever when not tuned properly, or like me, when using no muffling. I like big, huge toms with plenty of tone, but controlled. This method acheives that.

I also have my other two toms tuned that way, then tuned in relation to each other so they sound great when struck simultaneously or when playing a roll on the toms. They sound like they belong together if you know what I mean. The beauty of the whole thing is that with the pitch pipe, you'll know exactly how to achieve that sound every time you play and it makes tuning your kit quickly so much easier and faster. No more trial and error. I have a whole series of posts on this subject in the tom tuning thread, somewhere around post #50 or so. Check it out if you want more info or email me. I'll be glad to share my tips with you.

Oh and one more thing, I don't use or like a drum dial because it's not precise enough. It will get you in the ball park, but to really hone in on each lug so that the head is perfectly in tune with itself, you have to make sure each lug is tuned to the same pitch. A drum dial won't do that for you but a pitch pipe will. As far as I know, I'm the only one who does it this way and I can't believe more people don't. It's really saved me in the studio, live or helping friends out who can't seem to get their drums happening. I highly recommend this technique but it's not for everybody. It works for me and I think it's definitely worthy of consideration.
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Last edited by cdrums21; 03-14-2007 at 04:30 AM.
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  #112  
Old 03-18-2007, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Hi Clint,

Well I took my 13 year old daughter to her guitar lesson and the store had one pitch pipe left. It's round and has what seems to be a full range of notes on it. I will give it a try.

I will keep you posted on my success.

Regards,

Pete
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  #113  
Old 03-18-2007, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Please do Pete,
I would like to see some more success stories come from this technique. It works really well, especially if you can hear the pitches at each lug point clearly. That's one of the benefits of using a single ply head with no muffling built in. You can hear the pitches easily. One thing to keep in mind, your drums may have a slightly different tuning range than mine, so you may not be able to get the same pitches as what I do, but there are a few notes on each drum that are in the "sweet spot" that you should be able to find and then adjust from there. Those pitches I mentioned will at least get you in the ball park. Good luck!
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  #114  
Old 03-18-2007, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Hi,

I started to tune the drums using the pitches, I will tell you (in my case anyway) you really need to listen closely. I adjusted the pitch pipe to give me an F, then trying to tune each lug to that sound takes practice, wow! Also on the floor tom I am trying to use a B on top and a D# on bottom but the B note seems higher in tone? Wouldn't I want the top head tuned lower than the bottom? I'm sure it's my ears :-)

By the way I am using smooth white emperors on top and single ply clear Yamaha on bottom.

Practice, practice practice
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  #115  
Old 03-19-2007, 04:26 AM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bsticks View Post
Hi,

I started to tune the drums using the pitches, I will tell you (in my case anyway) you really need to listen closely. I adjusted the pitch pipe to give me an F, then trying to tune each lug to that sound takes practice, wow! Also on the floor tom I am trying to use a B on top and a D# on bottom but the B note seems higher in tone? Wouldn't I want the top head tuned lower than the bottom? I'm sure it's my ears :-)

By the way I am using smooth white emperors on top and single ply clear Yamaha on bottom.

Practice, practice practice
Yes Pete,
It does take some practice, but if you think about it, if you didn't use the pitch pipe, the pitch at each lug point will be a certain pitch anyway, and you want them all to be even, right? All you are doing is finding what the pitch is at each lug point on the pitch pipe and then tuning them all to that pitch. Once you do that, it's just a matter of getting the top and bottom head in a musical interval such as minor thirds or major thirds in order to cut out unwanted overtones and make the drum sound jump right out at you.

As far as the B note on the pitch pipe, sometimes the note is at a higher register on the pipe than what the pitch is on the drum. That's OK, you just have to think of the B note an octave lower and use that as the guide. Do you know what I mean? If you tap the head at each lug point and take the pitch above or below the note you want, then just tap the lug point on the head over and over again real quick, almost like it's one continuous note, and bring the pitch either up or down to match the note on the pipe, that helps to make the note sound clearer so it's easier to tune to. I wish I could come there and tune them for you, you'd see what I mean.

There is another drummer here on drummerworld that emailed me and asked questions about the tuning as well. He happened to live very close to me so he made the trip up to see how it was done and to see if I could get his drums sounding good. His drummerworld name is maximusppl . I encourage you to private message him and ask him what he thinks of the method and the sound of his drums.

Please keep at it for a while, it will be worth it once you start to be able to distinguish the pitches. Your head selection is fine. The emperors are a little harder to hear the pitch on because they're two ply, but you should still be able to hear them clearly. Sometimes if you tap the lug point with a cloth glove on or mute your finger with a towel or something, that helps to eliminate other frequencies that may be getting in the way of the true pitch at the lug. Keep me posted!
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  #116  
Old 03-20-2007, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

i don't know if this would help, but i've tried putting a moon gel on both the rim and the top of the head (using the same moongel). this might take a little of that ring out, although you seem to have fixed your problem. i have been trying to tune my 13" and i have the EC2 coated heads...it took me forever to get a sound i liked, and like everyone else, it sits to the side unless i want to look cool. :)

sometimes those EC2 heads can be fussy. they are great when you find that sound you want.
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  #117  
Old 03-21-2007, 06:47 AM
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Default Re: 13x9 tuning tip wanted

I have a 9"x14" rack tom on my kit I think the same principle would apply to your tom. I tune the bottom head way up, on a drum dial it's at 85. The batter head on a drum dial is at 78. This gives a nice big boomy sound with plenty of projection because the bottom head is tuned really high. This is how I have my whole kit tuned, high tension on the bottom, low tension on the batter side and my toms just boom and are very powerful sounding.
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  #118  
Old 03-23-2007, 04:23 AM
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Default Ludwig supraphonic snare 6.5 tuning

hey guys i was just wondering if anyone has this snare and how u tune it? i got a pretty good sound out of it but i think it could sound alot better from what i hear from bonham and such.
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  #119  
Old 03-23-2007, 07:56 AM
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Skitch Skitch is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig supraphonic snare 6.5 tuning

I would think two things:
  1. These are fairly easy drums to tune.
  2. That like any other snare drum (or drum for that matter), the bottom head tension is more critical than the top head.

Mike

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  #120  
Old 03-23-2007, 09:09 AM
mikei mikei is offline
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Default Re: Ludwig supraphonic snare 6.5 tuning

I have tried many tunings, and they all sound good. The looser the tuning, the more overtones. None were overbearing.

I prefer to have my top head really tight! I then tune the bottom head really tight, although just a bit looser. On my drum dial it is 91 on top and 89 on the bottom.

I then replaced the stock snare wire with a gibraltar 42 strand wire. I play with the snare wires fairly tight. I like the crisp crack I get. Yet, the ghost notes are so pretty!

I use a coated ambassador on top, and use the stock ludwig reso. I will eventually change it out.

It is an amazing snare drum. I will never, ever part with it.
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