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  #1  
Old 10-04-2018, 04:12 AM
Wackerman Wackerman is offline
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Default Namm 2019 rumors

Iíve heard rumors about news gears for the next winter namm:

New Yamaha oak shelled drums (Live custom is discontinued here in Europe)

2 New Tama Starclassic kit (Who Will remplace Starclassic B/B & Starclassic Bubinga... both Will be discontinued at the end of this year īcause bubinga wood enter on the ę*CITES*Ľ accord.
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  #2  
Old 10-04-2018, 04:17 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

On the low end, Ludwig has a new beginner kit - the Backbeat:

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Ludwig/...and-Cymbals.gc
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Old 10-04-2018, 05:49 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

I try to keep tabs on what is actually selling after I saw it demo'd at last year's NAMM. The list is always long of the companies that disappear in ten months.
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Old 10-04-2018, 06:25 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
On the low end, Ludwig has a new beginner kit - the Backbeat:

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Ludwig/...and-Cymbals.gc
Man that's a value for a complete kit-just dump the cymbals for something a little nicer. Posters looking for an inexpensive beginner kit should be directed to this.
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Old 10-04-2018, 07:15 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

I saw that Ludwig kit at GC, and yes, the cymbals are kinda useless. But the rest of the kit and hardware are decent-good, and even without the cymbals, it's a great value for a full-size, 5-pc kit.

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  #6  
Old 10-04-2018, 08:15 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
On the low end, Ludwig has a new beginner kit - the Backbeat:

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Ludwig/...and-Cymbals.gc
That looks like the Pearl Forum I started on 20 years ago. It's $200 cheaper though. How much teenage angst is included?
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  #7  
Old 10-04-2018, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Rumors I have heard :

Yamaha is coming out with a new line of bass drum pedals- very sleek looking and very smooth.
They are making a new Oak kit, more expensive than the Live Custom with a wider selection of finishes.

Tama is replacing the Starclassic Birch/Bubinga with a Birch/Walnut kit.
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Old 10-04-2018, 03:08 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickP View Post
Rumors I have heard :

Yamaha is coming out with a new line of bass drum pedals- very sleek looking and very smooth.
They are making a new Oak kit, more expensive than the Live Custom with a wider selection of finishes.

Tama is replacing the Starclassic Birch/Bubinga with a Birch/Walnut kit.
"more expensive"

That seems to be the Yamaha mantra recently
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  #9  
Old 10-04-2018, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by ineedaclutch View Post
That looks like the Pearl Forum I started on 20 years ago. It's $200 cheaper though. How much teenage angst is included?
It also looks a lot like a current Pearl Roadshow.

Given that there aren't that many drum makers in Asia, it's probably no coincidence.

I like how Ludwig is working hard to give us nice options for every price point. While Yamaha increased their Taiwan-made Tour Custom from 999$ to 1299$ because reasons, Ludwig came out with a US made kit for just 999$.

And if you want something more modern sounding, with more pieces and all maple-shells like the Yamaha, you can always get the Element Maple, you'll even get the 8" tom and a great snare and still save 300$ over the Yamaha. Quality IMHO is just as good.

Last edited by SnickSound; 10-04-2018 at 03:25 PM.
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  #10  
Old 10-04-2018, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Yamaha did bring back the Rydeen, while dropping the Gigmaker, on the low end. It doesn't have the the hardware and cymbals though.
For someone looking for a set for their kid (or their self), that could make a difference, even if the cymbals would need to be replaced for someone who sticks with it.

The best thing Yamaha has going for it IMO, is the tom mounting system, but you don't get that at the entry level.
Edit: I also like their aluminum die cast hoops and 'lightning' T rods, but again, those are higher up the line features.
The three sets in question - Ludwig, Pearl, and Yamaha, look almost the same to me.
The Pearl Jazz set is the same price, but to get the 5 pc. is a bit more. The Ludwig Backbeat is the bargain of the bunch.

Yamaha's pricing above the Stage level has been a disappointment, considering they gave cost cutting as a reason for the move to China.
.

Last edited by wildbill; 10-04-2018 at 04:59 PM. Reason: additions
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  #11  
Old 10-04-2018, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
Yamaha's pricing above the Stage level has been a disappointment, considering they gave cost cutting as a reason for the move to China.
And the Tour Custom that jumped from 999 to 1299 is not even made in their own China factory, it's from a generic Taiwan plant.

Seeing their new chinese kits in the store next to CHEAPER US-made DWs and Ludwigs, or German-made Sonors, was surprising to say the least. I'm sure they're great... but come on. What's the point of moving to where the labour is cheaper if the end product is more expensive than the competition?
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Old 10-04-2018, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickP View Post
Yamaha is coming out with a new line of bass drum pedals- very sleek looking and very smooth.
FWIW, I very much like the existing ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnickSound View Post
Given that there aren't that many drum makers in Asia
?
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  #13  
Old 10-04-2018, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post

?
Others here are more in the know than I am, but basically there are only a couple drum manufacturers in Taiwan (one of which is basically Mapex) and they make drums for multiple brands. So, at the lower end, these kits pretty much all come from the same places, they just tweak the color options, sizes and lugs.

Still, some come out on top. My cheapo Sonor Player SE just felt more solid and held its tune better than a more expensive Pearl Decade Maple... but the Pearl did sound better.
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  #14  
Old 10-04-2018, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnickSound View Post
Others here are more in the know than I am, but basically there are only a couple drum manufacturers in Taiwan (one of which is basically Mapex) and they make drums for multiple brands. So, at the lower end, these kits pretty much all come from the same places, they just tweak the color options, sizes and lugs.
In terms of Asian manufacturers accessed by major Western brands, you're completely correct, hence the largely homogenised output.

In terms of companies making (in some cases, serious volume) drums in Asia, there's one hell of a lot of them.

To offer context, these are two kits on open offer in China.

The first is a full on birch shell kit with decent quality lacquered outer veneer. You can buy this 5 piece set for $500USD, c/w all hardware shown.

The second is a full size decent quality starter kit. Cost for this including hardware is $200USD.

Put some numbers on the table, & these can be had for half that price, & custom branded too.
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Last edited by Andy; 10-04-2018 at 04:55 PM.
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  #15  
Old 10-04-2018, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickP View Post
Rumors I have heard :

Yamaha is coming out with a new line of bass drum pedals- very sleek looking and very smooth.
They are making a new Oak kit, more expensive than the Live Custom with a wider selection of finishes.

Tama is replacing the Starclassic Birch/Bubinga with a Birch/Walnut kit.

I hope they don't replace the existing Yamaha pedals. The direct drive is my favorite.
I suspect if they come out with a new one, they'll drop the old one though.
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  #16  
Old 10-04-2018, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post

Yamaha's pricing above the Stage level has been a disappointment, considering they gave cost cutting as a reason for the move to China.
.
Yeah, they cut their costs to increase their profits. No reason to lower the prices if people are still buying. They've been pretty well on top for a while now. I don't think they're too concerned.
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  #17  
Old 10-04-2018, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
FWIW, I very much like the existing ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
I hope they don't replace the existing Yamaha pedals. The direct drive is my favorite.
Same here, I really like both the direct and strap.
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  #18  
Old 10-05-2018, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnickSound View Post
"more expensive"

That seems to be the Yamaha mantra recently

Yes but "wider selection of finishes" is not in the Yamaha vocabulary!
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  #19  
Old 10-05-2018, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
In terms of Asian manufacturers accessed by major Western brands, you're completely correct, hence the largely homogenised output.

In terms of companies making (in some cases, serious volume) drums in Asia, there's one hell of a lot of them.

To offer context, these are two kits on open offer in China.

The first is a full on birch shell kit with decent quality lacquered outer veneer. You can buy this 5 piece set for $500USD, c/w all hardware shown.

The second is a full size decent quality starter kit. Cost for this including hardware is $200USD.

Put some numbers on the table, & these can be had for half that price, & custom branded too.


That birch kit looks good.
You gotta love mass production!
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  #20  
Old 10-06-2018, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Whatís with the Yamaha bashing?
They went through a major drum production revamp.

Their Stage Custom is probably the top quality/value line of the entire market.

Their Oaks are amazing quality in a pretty fair cost mid tier.

The Hybrids Could be a bit lower, but I own a set and they are amazing in the in the upper maple market. If you havenít played one, which a lot of posters who bash probably havenít, then you donít really know. Glad I Got mine.
The RCís I actually agree are too expensive.
Also agree on the number of available finishes.

The Chinese factory there built in makes their pianos, some of the best in the world. Who actually knows their labor is so cheap, I read their one of the best Asian companies to work for in terms of pay and benefits and itís actually difficult to land a job working for them, because they have such a great reputation for how well they treat their workforce.

Rant over....continue on gentleman.
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  #21  
Old 10-06-2018, 02:59 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

And full disclosure, I own both Yamaha and Gretsch USA!
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  #22  
Old 10-06-2018, 04:02 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumprof View Post
Whatís with the Yamaha bashing?
They went through a major drum production revamp.

Their Stage Custom is probably the top quality/value line of the entire market.

Their Oaks are amazing quality in a pretty fair cost mid tier.

The Hybrids Could be a bit lower, but I own a set and they are amazing in the in the upper maple market. If you havenít played one, which a lot of posters who bash probably havenít, then you donít really know. Glad I Got mine.
The RCís I actually agree are too expensive.
Also agree on the number of available finishes.

The Chinese factory there built in makes their pianos, some of the best in the world. Who actually knows their labor is so cheap, I read their one of the best Asian companies to work for in terms of pay and benefits and itís actually difficult to land a job working for them, because they have such a great reputation for how well they treat their workforce.

Rant over....continue on gentleman.
I own a set of both Hybrids and RCs. I agree with your point and enjoyed your rant, but the RCs (and amh) are absolutely not overpriced. Quite the opposite IMHO.

I got mine for under 4000$cad (22-10-12-14-16, but only use 1 up 1 down) yet a new Gretch in the same sizes in a red glass finish which does nothing to tickle my fancy one bit commands a 6100$ price tag whereas an anniversary bop kit would would put me back 5900$.

Again, in my humble and honest opinion, build quality is simply in a different league with Yamaha, yet their products are priced lower.

As for the swag factor, well that's a whole other story but one that is totally up to the person behind the kit ;-)
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  #23  
Old 10-06-2018, 04:13 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Thanks Groov-E. Agreed.
Sorry to derail the thread, just tired of hearing the same gripes about Yamaha that are just speculative.

Back to original post. Ludwig looks good for 400 dollars.
Thatís a a complete kit for a beginner or kid for the price of a top of the line ride cymbal.
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  #24  
Old 10-06-2018, 04:55 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

I didn't see any bashing of Yamaha drums.
Just some bashing of Yamaha's drum prices.

I think it's due to a couple things.
First - several years ago, before the move,
a Yamaha rep said on a couple forums that the move was to reduce costs,
and would result in an approximate 30% reduction in prices across the board.

More recently, there has been speculation on a couple forums that the Oak line is being dropped,
and also replaced by a more expensive Oak line.
It might not matter to some, but I think for most people, price is a factor when considering a set.
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  #25  
Old 10-06-2018, 05:14 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Fair enough Bill.
Just when I look at comparable lines from other major manufacturers, they donít sem too out of place. In fact, they lay in line or slightly below some other comparables.
Wasnít aware of Yamaha rep, but that may have just been spin from one guy in say something internet mode.

Not sure about the Oaks, but letís see what comes before speculating too much.
Also, there are other companies that have driven up pricing levels quite a bit and successfully I might add. 4, 5, 6 grand for shell packs, not including snares.
I appreciate thoughtful, respectful debate.
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  #26  
Old 10-06-2018, 06:08 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

I'd like a virgin bass drum option and the myriad of size and finish choices that the Sakae-made Absolutes had.
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  #27  
Old 10-06-2018, 06:22 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

I'm happy with my Maple Custom Absolute Nouveaus, but I bought them used.
I'd have a hard time justifying the price of the Hybrids, seeing as I don't gig.

I priced out getting an 18" Hybrid bass drum in the same Vintage Natural finish to go with the MCANs,
but it costs more than what I paid for the whole set - ha ha.
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  #28  
Old 10-06-2018, 06:29 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Virgin bass drums I know are important to some players, others not so much.
I prefer, and all of my kits are bass mounted toms.
I think companies really went too far not offering mounts for So many of their upper lines.
I have actually bought lower lines even though I could afford upper lines because I could get bass mounted toms.

Finishes, I agree. Most companies hit the most popular finishes fairly well but custom manufacturing has put pressure on big overseas manufacturers, that they just canít compete on that level from companies made in the us. So they just offer 10 finishes and thatís it.
Hard to compete with custom and the myriad of choices coming from California or North/South Carolina when your building drums on the other side of the planet. They could bump it up a bit though.

Will be interesting to see what Tama does.
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  #29  
Old 10-06-2018, 06:46 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Understood Bill.
MCAN are excellent drum!

I actually hit submit before finishing my thought on Tama.
Bubinga and birch bubinga have been a hugely popular part of their line.
Will be interesting to see where they go next. They are a very innovative company and major player in the market.
NAMM will be big for them to fill that gap.

Wonder what new thing DW will come up with?
Seems like they have pretty much covered every base I could possibly think of and some I woul never have thought of.
I think DW has hit their peak, but they have certainly surprised me before.
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  #30  
Old 10-07-2018, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

itís time for TAMA to use ę STAR lugs Ľ ( and bass drum Spurs) for all the Starclassic line!! With a printed badge (like Starclassic maple/bubinga/Star) for Starclassic Performer... And to add new colors for performer, inspired by the ę Star line Ľ (like ę grand aqua blue Ľ, or ę sunny yellow lacquer Ľ!!)
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Old 10-07-2018, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

I wish... it will be cool if Yamaha use hook lugs (like absolute hybrid maple) for the new line of oak drums!!
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  #32  
Old 10-07-2018, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Tama is introducing a Birch/Walnut Starclassic kit to replace the discontinued Birch/Bubinga. They will continue to produce the Star Bubinga for the foreseeable future.
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  #33  
Old 10-08-2018, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickP View Post
Tama is introducing a Birch/Walnut Starclassic kit to replace the discontinued Birch/Bubinga. They will continue to produce the Star Bubinga for the foreseeable future.

Birch/Walnut sounds like something I'd like to try.
I can't think of anyone else who's doing that blend.
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  #34  
Old 10-08-2018, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
Birch/Walnut sounds like something I'd like to try.
I can't think of anyone else who's doing that blend.
Mapex released birch/walnut shells several years ago as part of their Saturn III line. I believe they were a limited run; never had the chance to play one to compare/contrast them against the typical maple/walnut Saturns. Makes sense to move to walnut since it supplies tremendous low end and warmth and is readily available .

Last edited by gish; 10-08-2018 at 03:37 AM.
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Mapex did a Saturn SE kit some years ago with that shell combo, seems like a lot of players raved a lot about them, will be interesting to see what Tama are able to do with it. I'm not in the market for a new kit at the moment, but who knows in the future... I like to keep updated about drum news :)

*gish beat me to it... :)
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Old 10-08-2018, 03:12 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

I had a Saturn III set for a while.
It sounded good, but I thought the build quality was lacking. It was the maple/walnut.

I think replacing the maple with birch might give them a little more bite.
Hope to get a chance to try them out.
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  #37  
Old 11-01-2018, 11:29 PM
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New limited edition satin oil Colors for Dw design serie: satin deep red and midnight blue: https://drummersonly.co.uk/red-vs-bl...ign-exclusive/

New configuration for Dw Frequent flyer (5pcs): https://www.cymbalfusion.com/dw-desi...-cherry-stain/
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  #38  
Old 12-23-2018, 10:30 PM
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TAMA Superstar Hyper-Drive Standard (maple shell; triple flange hoop; star mount
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  #39  
Old 12-23-2018, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
a Yamaha rep said on a couple forums that the move was to reduce costs,
and would result in an approximate 30% reduction in prices across the board.
That is indeed the case. If they had continued building in Japan, their drums would be 30% more expensive right now. Don't forget that they had to retool and get a ton of new machinery. Doing all of that in Japan would have required much more capital.
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Old 12-23-2018, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wackerman View Post
I wish... it will be cool if Yamaha use hook lugs (like absolute hybrid maple) for the new line of oak drums!!
It would be even cooler if they dropped those hook lugs from all their drums. No one needs them and no one asked for them.
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