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  #41  
Old 04-17-2015, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

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The Air Force didn't teach Gadd to read music. He's got a Bachelor's degree in percussion from a famous conservatory with the most historic percussion department in the history of percussion. He studied with one of the most renowned and loved teachers of all time. That was before he even joined the military.
Very few people can join the armed forces music program without taking a test to be accepted in the first place.
It's a very good training experience.

Hilary Jones is one of the few female drummers I respect and they taught her well.

My take on Steve was he joined to get out of being drafted,of where you don't have a choice of MOS or branch of service.

When Billy Cobham joined up ,I'm sure he was facing a similar dilemma.
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  #42  
Old 04-17-2015, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

I learned to read music as a kid taking lessons and playing in various school bands/orchestras and the Junior Philharmonic. Every one of those situations I was a percussionist (save the time when I was taking kit lessons of course), meaning I did not play the kit. Fast forward to today with a 30 year absence from drumming and I can still read music but not nearly as quickly and certainly not with the same rapid recognition. But where I never did develop was reading music for a kit beyond the basic snare, bass, HH, ride, crash and two toms. To be clear I can look at it and work it out but I cannot sight read for the kit. Too many lines!

I have downloaded some sheet music to some songs and I have to very carefully interpret them before I can play them, not able to sight read them.

This topic does get into how people learn a bit and there are differences for people. Some are auditory, some kinetic, some visual. Some like structure others like to explore on their own. You need to pay attention to what works for you.

The other area this thread took my thoughts has to do with my own brain. I tend to be a person caught between the two sides of my brain. I first need to right the song structure and a few notes about the groove, key fills, and stops and starts. But then I have a hard time letting go of those notes and letting the other side of my brain take over. I am working on this at this time. I can't seem to gig without having my notes within view "just in case".
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  #43  
Old 04-17-2015, 10:58 PM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

Wow this is reassuring. That experience I mentioned earlier was humiliating-everyone had music and was reading it but me-I wasn't a "musician" I kind of went into deer in headlights mode so I was in shock. A couple of the band members I've played before said the guy was just being a dick later on when I saw them for another gig-the bass player has always been supportive and helpful said he thought the dude unprofessional (dang I was the unprofessional one I thought). But still I was getting the impression that everyone expects you to sight read the music-glad that's not the case
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  #44  
Old 04-18-2015, 03:49 AM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

I spend a lot of time learning to read music, and then found myself rarely in a situation where I had to, and the skill is quite beyond rusty now.

But if I didn't know how to read, I wouldn't know how write and program music, so I'm still quite happy I learned to read, regardless of how little reading I do.
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  #45  
Old 04-18-2015, 04:19 AM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

I took classical piano in my mid 20's from a British born teacher. She was strict, taught me a lot about reading, theory and today I love her for it.

I prefer when my drum teacher provides me with notes, as I forget what grooves he was teaching me when I get home. Must be age.
I will say this, when it comes to improvising and free wheeling, drums are the most liberating instrument I've ever played.
Reading music is, I believe, an important asset, but not the be all end all for having a bit of fun on the drums.
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  #46  
Old 04-18-2015, 06:36 AM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

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Originally Posted by pgm554 View Post
Hilary Jones is one of the few female drummers I respect...
I'm... not even going to touch that one.

Anyways, one thing I'd like to add is that working on aural memory, sense of form & phrasing, and quickly understanding parts you hear are extremely beneficial in a a contemporary band setting. If I'm learning a bunch of covers for some high school reunion, I just go through and listen to all the songs enough to "know" the form and vibe of them, and then I'm good.
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  #47  
Old 04-18-2015, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

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Hilary Jones is one of the few female drummers I respect
Eh? Care to elaborate?
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Old 04-18-2015, 03:30 PM
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  #48  
Old 04-18-2015, 06:13 PM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

Yes, I can read drum music. Started learning it when I was a kid taking private lessons and throughout school bands, orchestra, etc. Now as a teacher I make sure my students are good at reading music.
On the other side: I also play guitar, but never learned how to read standard notation. (i can read tab, though) I wish I could read standard notation....not enough to put in the time to do it, though, lol
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  #49  
Old 04-18-2015, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

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glad someone said something

I read that yesterday and gave the gas face

three cheers for public displays of ignorance
+1. Dont bite, please.
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  #50  
Old 04-19-2015, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

I grew up on wind instruments, then picked up bass guitar for jazz band, then finally drums. So reading music has been part of the equation since before I picked up sticks.

Do I use it all the time? No, I don't. Just as piano, guitar players, etc. don't always get a full sheet of music, they get chords and work out the parts based on their knowledge of chord composition and scales, drummers don't always need the music.

But for those gigs with a score, reading is fundamental, especially theater gigs. You can't memorize every show (although I came close with Rocky Horror). And if you're doubling percussion, forget it, you need to read.

It also is really helpful for studying books and such. And if you are reading some kind of drum tab notation, you already have the skills to read real music. You might as well just do it.

Not everyone needs to learn to read, but in my mind there's no reason not to.
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  #51  
Old 04-19-2015, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

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Originally Posted by tcspears View Post
Of course if you're working with drum notation, you end up running into problems where there are three different ways to say the same thing.

Look at this image, it shows 3 very different looking phrases, that are identical when played...
I beg to differ that the 3 are identical. the 3rd line 7 stoke interpretation is different that the top 2 because it is a single 8th note tied to another 8th note with the 6 stokes to be played within that span of the 8th note. The first 2 lines have the dotted 8th noted that follows the more consistent 16th note based of the examples shown.
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  #52  
Old 04-20-2015, 03:26 AM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

Yes, I can read orchestral, 4-mallets, snare drum, big band charts, and transpose viola to the marimba.

But to get better, one must practice.
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  #53  
Old 04-20-2015, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

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to me the biggest advantage of being able to read is it allows you to transcribe

transcribing pieces that peak your interest will allow you to deeply assimilate the thought process and motives of those who came before and therefor give you the greater ability to innovate off those ideas as if they were a spring board

learning to read is one of the easiest things I have ever done in this life

why not take a little time and learn something that can give you access to the plethora of information provided today?
Yes! Reading is not that hard to learn, it's pretty logical, and it allows you to keep a record of something you want to play. In the early stages of writing any song with the band I can write down what I played (usually it's the beat I've chosen for each section), so I can play it again next time in case I forget it.

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But to get better, one must practice.
This too. Reading and writing takes practice like anything else. It's actually a good exercise to learn a groove from the page.
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  #54  
Old 04-20-2015, 06:02 PM
tcspears tcspears is offline
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

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I beg to differ that the 3 are identical. the 3rd line 7 stoke interpretation is different that the top 2 because it is a single 8th note tied to another 8th note with the 6 stokes to be played within that span of the 8th note. The first 2 lines have the dotted 8th noted that follows the more consistent 16th note based of the examples shown.
You would think so, but it's a difference in notation. All three of these lines are the exact same part in the exact same song, but written by three different transcribers.

The first line with a dotted 8th is from the Longman and Broderip (English) book from 1780, the second line is from the Trommel-Schule (German) from 1891, and the last line is from the Henke (Austrian) manuscript form 1858.

To my earlier post, I mostly use lead sheets when writing drum parts, so i wouldn't run into these errors, but whenever I do any classical work I always run into these issues with drum notation. It gets worse when you play baroque (especially French) where 8th notes are almost swung to allow for the dance steps that were popular at the time; those transcritpions are a mess!
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  #55  
Old 04-24-2015, 07:20 AM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

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Eh? Care to elaborate?
Most of the female drummers out there are "posers".

Speaking of which ,they get posed with other posers like good old Lenny Kravitz(Cindy Blackman) of whom I truly disrespect.

A half a$$ed Hendrix wannabe that's is better suited to selling sunglasses and tight jeans.

Gina Schock also comes to mind as another poser.

And people are raving about Hanna Ford ?
Please!
Hillery would eat her for lunch.

This is like the NBA vs the WNBA,it ain't close as even a good men's college team will outclass ANY WNBA team and the same goes for male drummers vs female.

Will there be exceptions,sure but the MSNBC drivel that passes as gospel is a joke.

As for Hillery ,I knew her personally as she used to hang out at the Kanzaki Lounge in San Fran and jam with Frank Martin and held her own against folks like Dave Garibaldi and Will Calhoun.
And she loved her Fibes snare:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3yRydk_G-4
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Last edited by pgm554; 04-24-2015 at 07:35 AM.
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  #56  
Old 04-24-2015, 08:03 AM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

Hey, let's check out your playing, old man. I want to see your qualifications for making such colorful opinions. Give us a link.
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  #57  
Old 04-24-2015, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

I hate to be the one to ask you this pgm554, but have you accidentally wandered into 2015 from a wormhole to the past? It's OK if you have, we just need to figure out how to send you back is all.

I find it amusing that you can label the majority of women drummers 'posers' but just happen to like one that you know personally. It's almost as though you've prejudged a massive group of people without knowing them!
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  #58  
Old 04-24-2015, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is douchebaggery the likes of which God himself has never seen.

You, PGMwhateverthef&ck, please refrain from spewing such drivel anywhere civilized people might read it. Of course you have the right to hold whatever sort of benighted, Neanderthal opinion you wish. Just as I have the right to call that opinion unworthy of a 21st-century human being. I'm resisting the urge to use the term "shitweasel," because it'll probably bring down the ModHammer.

Nah, screw it. If you can say bullshit like, "Most of the female drummers out there are posers" with a straight face, you're a shitweasel. You think truck nuts are clever and funny.

You need to change that. It is people like you who make someone with the future of the human race at heart despair.
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  #59  
Old 04-24-2015, 04:44 PM
tcspears tcspears is offline
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

I think PGM has discovered a new advanced form of sarcasm that's clearly going over our heads, as it almost sounds like he's seriously saying that women can't make good durmmers!
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  #60  
Old 04-24-2015, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

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Hey, let's check out your playing, old man. I want to see your qualifications for making such colorful opinions. Give us a link.
He was on right after this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbYEbs3KEpA

Too bad the cameraman ran out of battery.
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  #61  
Old 04-24-2015, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

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Most of the female drummers out there are "posers".
Wow... I think you're in the wrong period of time and the wrong forum.

Please go somewhere else with your opinions about female drummers and women in general. Sex has nothing to do with your ability to play an instrument.
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  #62  
Old 04-24-2015, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

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Cant read music or drum notation, never wanted to. If a piece of music or a drummer inspires me its the flavour and texture of what they play that gets me. So, I try and get that flavour and texture and work with it, and add a little of it to my playing. I am not interested in playing what someone else has, note for note. For session players it must be crucial, they cant wing it. Even the thought of being a session drummer frightens the life out of me.
Not being able to read music doesn't translate to winging it. Have a good ear, experience, and understand theory and you're golden. As a guitarist in a previous band I would listen to the drum parts of complex songs and help my drummer (a drum teacher) understand what was being played.
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  #63  
Old 04-24-2015, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

As someone who learned drums by playing in a band, I don't find sheet music to be very useful. It's difficult to read and I have never been able to make the connection between the notes and what their values translate to on the kit.

However if you were to just beat box or sound out the beat you want I could play it in a matter of seconds. I'm very much a 'play by ear' drummer and I thrive when placed with band mates who can improvise. I would not make a good studio musician who is forced to play the exact notes in a specific way.
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  #64  
Old 04-24-2015, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?



Yes, I can read sheet music...
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Old 04-24-2015, 09:21 PM
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  #65  
Old 04-24-2015, 10:00 PM
tcspears tcspears is offline
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

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I don't find sheet music to be very useful. It's difficult to read and I have never been able to make the connection between the notes and what their values translate to on the kit.
To be honest, it's rare that I'm given actual drum notation. Typically, I'll just get a lead sheet that will show me the melody, structure of the song, and any changes. I posted a lead sheet that I had written earlier in the thread.

Lead sheets are just a set of instructions. It's like a blueprint for a house: you need to know the structure of the house and the specific rooms and sizes. Once the house is built though, you can paint it and decorate it however you see fit.

Not being able to read music puts you at a huge disadvantage; that's not to say you can't be a good drummer, but you can only advance so far without reading... it's how musicians communicate.
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  #66  
Old 04-25-2015, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

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Originally Posted by Winegums View Post
As someone who learned drums by playing in a band, I don't find sheet music to be very useful. It's difficult to read and I have never been able to make the connection between the notes and what their values translate to on the kit.
As someone who learned to recite the Iliad via the oral tradition, I don't find writing to be very useful. It's difficult to read, and I have never been able to make the connection between the letters and what their shapes translate to as words.
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  #67  
Old 04-25-2015, 07:03 AM
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

I can barely read, and I certainly can't sight-read anything above an eighth note pattern.

When I look at written music, I sound it out in my head "ting ting tah ting tah" and then can play it. I sure that with practice, I could speed it up and make fewer errors, but am not sure that it's where I should be currently spending my time.

I often have trouble reading swing notation, and things like swung triplets written as straight 16th notes. On temporally complex pieces where I'm out of my league, I simply navigate the guitar line (former guitarist).
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  #68  
Old 04-25-2015, 10:57 AM
Boomka Boomka is offline
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Default Re: Can you read sheet music?

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As someone who learned drums by playing in a band, I don't find sheet music to be very useful. It's difficult to read and I have never been able to make the connection between the notes and what their values translate to on the kit.
Hmmm...is it "not useful" because you "find it difficult"? I wonder if there's some rationalisation going on.

Don't get me wrong, you may well be in a situation where it isn't always useful. However, if you "find it difficult" and yet can function as a player in a band, I'd suggest you've had poor reading teachers. Not to blow my own horn, but I can usually get a person in your position - i.e. someone who has played the rhythms being represented - to understand and use basic notation inside of a very short lesson. A bit of work at reading more complex combinations of small subdivisions and rests is usually needed, but it's never been a problem to get the basic concept across. Basically, if you can already play it, you've won better than half the battle. It's then a matter of associating sounds you know with the symbols. It's no different than being able to speak English and having someone show you how to read. And, frankly, reading and writing English is much more complex.

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I would not make a good studio musician who is forced to play the exact notes in a specific way.
How do you know? If you tell yourself that, I bet it'll come true.
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