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  #1  
Old 01-21-2014, 10:50 AM
Drummerfy Drummerfy is offline
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Default double bass issue :\

I've been playing drums for almost 3 years now and got my double bass pedal a year ago. I've been having this issue where I do steady 16th notes (ex. Lamb Of God: Laid to Rest) about that speed but my feet decide to speed up for a quick second than I go off balance and lose my place I used to be able to play August Burns Red: Thirty and Seven perfectly now I'm back to 16th notes at just over 100 bpm :( any tips?
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  #2  
Old 01-21-2014, 12:13 PM
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DA-Drummer DA-Drummer is offline
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Default Re: double bass issue :\

Practice, practice very day.
And for some stamina for your legs you can ride a bike for half an our a day
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Old 01-21-2014, 02:26 PM
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Duck Tape Duck Tape is offline
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Default Re: double bass issue :\

I have been playing double bass for ages and it's only recently that I've found the composure to continue playing through a fumble like this.

It's very much an attitude thing; if you accidentally speed up, or slow down or play a dud note, your mind says "abandon ship'', but if you know where you are in the bar and whether the next note is a left or a right... and you can play it in time; you can quickly get back on the horse. I think it's just a matter of being aware of what's going on down there at all times.
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:29 PM
iwearnohats iwearnohats is offline
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Default Re: double bass issue :\

Make sure you also practise playing straight singles on one leg, and then the other. Get used to building that control without having the other leg complicating things.

Also practise alternating singles between a foot and a hand, if you can do that well then your singles between your feet will greatly improve.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:10 PM
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MrInsanePolack MrInsanePolack is online now
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Default Re: double bass issue :\

First off, Laid to Rest is not 16ths. 16ths are in phrases of 4, Laid to Rest is phrases of 3, e.g. 1 and uh 2 and uh 3 and uh 4 and uh. Perhaps your feet are not accustomed to playing this pattern and are trying to reroute themselves back to what they know. 16ths repeat the pattern on each ride/hi-hat strike (RlrlRlrl), phrases of three do not (RlrLrl). If this is not the issue, you may be at the in between speed that is awkward for all of us, or just need to practice more. Being able to play a faster song smoothly does not facilitate the ability to play a slower song just as well.
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:42 PM
bud7h4 bud7h4 is offline
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Default Re: double bass issue :\

Quote:
Originally Posted by iwearnohats View Post
Make sure you also practise playing straight singles on one leg, and then the other. Get used to building that control without having the other leg complicating things.

Also practise alternating singles between a foot and a hand, if you can do that well then your singles between your feet will greatly improve.
My right leg technique was developing slower than my left when it came to double bass. Playing straight singles on one pedal solved that problem in a hurry.

The other excercise that helped most was maintaining left/right singles and alternating between 8th notes and 8th note triplets as per George Kollias' beginners excercise.
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Old 01-22-2014, 03:04 AM
Brotato Chip Brotato Chip is offline
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Default Re: double bass issue :\

Try playing heel down double bass at a steady tempo through periods of time, this should help you build up strength and endurance as well as a sense of timing. Also try practicing paradiddles with your double bass, like stick control but with your feet. This should help improve your coordination as well as loosen up your feet, you won't be as stiff when playing through and your transitions will be smoother. Perhaps a little off topic but another trick to gain complete control with your recessive foot is to set aside your dominant foot completely and practice playing some beats with your recessive foot on the slave pedal, may sound kind of unorthodox but if there's a will there's a way.
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Old 01-22-2014, 11:52 AM
iwearnohats iwearnohats is offline
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Default Re: double bass issue :\

I wouldn't say it's unorthodox, IMO the foundation of a strong non-dominant foot is in the capability to play all that simple stuff from the bottom up again. You'll find that the two best (in my opinion) books on learning double bass - Double Bass Freedom by Virgil Donati and Double Bass Drumming by a couple of other guys, I think Bobby Rondinelli was one of them - they both go through examples that look, funnily enough, like your rudimentary fundamental basic beats :).

90s Punk rock is also great for getting your doubles up to speed, assuming you don't mind a bit of 90s punk.
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  #9  
Old 01-27-2014, 12:34 AM
shredfreak shredfreak is offline
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Default Re: double bass issue :\

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummerfy View Post
I've been playing drums for almost 3 years now and got my double bass pedal a year ago. I've been having this issue where I do steady 16th notes (ex. Lamb Of God: Laid to Rest) about that speed but my feet decide to speed up for a quick second than I go off balance and lose my place I used to be able to play August Burns Red: Thirty and Seven perfectly now I'm back to 16th notes at just over 100 bpm :( any tips?
Control basically.

There's a few excellent vids of derek roddy on the subject for that matter mainly aimed at endurance wich is pretty much the 8 on a hand concept. 10 minutes hands (8 minutes 8th note single strokes & 2 minutes roll), 10 minutes feet (8 minutes 8 note singles & 2 min roll) and blast beat.

Stick control book is also worth buying, just apply everything to feet. There's some newer versions of it aswell that show you how to apply it to the entire kit wich is great.

For developing control over your feet & mix up techniques as you please try applying the single paradiddle to it.

RLRRLRLL is what everyone learns for the hands. now do it single strokes with feet with whatever technique you use most (heel up, down, flatfoot...)

Now if you want to push it even further.

(R) Heel up, (L) heel down, (R-R) heel toe, (L) Heel up, (R) Heel down, (L) Heel toe

Replace heel toe with either slide or swivel. It's mainly designed to switch between 3 techniques.
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Old 01-27-2014, 01:38 AM
iwearnohats iwearnohats is offline
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Default Re: double bass issue :\

Quote:
Originally Posted by shredfreak View Post
RLRRLRLL is what everyone learns for the hands. now do it single strokes with feet with whatever technique you use most (heel up, down, flatfoot...)


(R) Heel up, (L) heel down, (R-R) heel toe, (L) Heel up, (R) Heel down, (L) Heel toe

Replace heel toe with either slide or swivel. It's mainly designed to switch between 3 techniques.
Can I just make a suggestion, and I'm not criticising but I hope you'll understand my angle:

Forget all this heel up/down/flatfoot and slide/swivel business. Just focus on staying relaxed and hitting the drum with power and control. It's that power, relaxation and control which will develop your body towards doing what is naturally for it.

I have never ever thought about what my heel-up double strokes form is. It's probably swivel on my left foot and slide on my right, but I don't care. I never, ever specifically trained either one to do what they do, they just do it on their own. All I ever thought was "Let's get these doubles as fast as possible while staying relaxed and playing loud."

Same thing with single strokes. I think a lot of drummers start off with playing heel up or heel down, but as they improve what happens is that the motion for heel up becomes less exaggerated. Why? Because your body will automatically refine and redevelop the technique as your muscle memory is shaped. So while I still technically play heel-up, it probably looks more like flat-foot, even to the point where at times I can seamlessly move into heel-down - and I never practise heel-down. I never tried to turn it into a flat-foot technique, it is just something that occurred naturally.

The biggest problem with worrying about all these different techniques is that it takes the focus away from the fundamental points: Play relaxed, in control, and with power. I will explain:

Play relaxed: We all know this. It's drilled into us from the moment any one experienced drummer notices how tense we are as a beginner. Being relaxed means you play better and faster, and use less energy.

Play in control: There is no point twitching, hitting all over the drum head, or being so inconsistent you may as well just not do what you're doing. Control implies consistency of volume, timing, accuracy, power and speed.

Play with power: One of the key points in developing good single strokes and double strokes with the feet at high speeds is the capability to do so with as much power as possible. Furthermore, developing high power with your foot technique at lower speeds is actually conducive to developing good technique, because you are forcing your body into using exaggerated motions that will then be refined into finer movements while retaining that same power. Of course, it is also very important to develop low-volume playing with both hands and feet, but that is not a component of developing BASIC technique with hands or feet - it is something that initially is additional to technique development, and will only become a staple later on.

On that note, using high power is NOT the way to develop basic technique with your hands, I would suggest that tempos between MP - F would be the key fundamental dynamic range for a beginner, and everything else is additional to that. Even now I use the MP-MF dynamic for when I focus on consistency of double strokes, and then try and translate that to PP. It's not easy, but while working F-FF for double strokes is good for working on that second stroke, that's generally not what you do in a musical situation. This applies to hand technique, of course.

I hope this has been helpful and makes sense!
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  #11  
Old 01-27-2014, 06:25 PM
shredfreak shredfreak is offline
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Default Re: double bass issue :\

fair point.

That paradiddle is just one way to implement it on feet. And it'll only ever be an exercise, there's a lot more musical ways to implement it.

To actually get there you'd have to learn each technique seperatly and gain control over that. especially with guys like kollias on youtube with swivel there's a lot shooting straight for that one ignoring the ones that come before it (there's a natural progression untill you reach that one even).

Applying stick control patterns to feet is definatly a good exercise to break away from the roll patteren & sadly enough often ignored.

Exageratted movement does speed up the muscle memory process so that's definatly a good thing to point out at the very beginning.

Alternating lead for short patterns is also a decent idea to pick up rather early since that takes a while to get used to aswel.
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