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  #1  
Old 08-02-2013, 01:28 AM
soulfly28 soulfly28 is offline
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Default Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

I think I just did. Told my neighbor I would try to learn this....OOPS!!! ANY help would be appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0uFb75wpkE

Around 3:11 is where it starts to get rough for me, and just gets worse :(
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:15 AM
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

Learn whatever you want, but it just sounds like the guitarist is doing a scale or exercise...
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:12 AM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

The only thing I heard that was that difficult for most drummers is a bit of the double-bass stuff. Regardless, it's nothing you couldn't replace with some other cool stuff, and I think it would be more interesting if the bass pattern was more rhythmically varied instead of just throwing in more notes in sparse places under the same thing. I skipped around, so I might have missed a part, or something.

I'd say chew it up and spit it out.

Onto your question: Yes. I've been trying to make a point to go at things I know I can't play when I practice. It humbles me(ha!), and I learn more from what I can't do well.
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:03 AM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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Originally Posted by soulfly28 View Post
I think I just did. Told my neighbor I would try to learn this....OOPS!!! ANY help would be appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0uFb75wpkE

Around 3:11 is where it starts to get rough for me, and just gets worse :(
Is it the odd time signature starting at 3:11?
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:11 AM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

I have a vivid memory of biting off more than I can chew. I'd been jamming with a guitar player for about a year and he started getting into fusion. So he invited this hotshot fusion bassist along and we had a three piece jam. Things were going okay until Billy Cobham's Red Baron. Like a fool I went for gold, trying to ape the hero fill at the end of the progression instead of simplifying.

I screwed up coming back in and was never invited to jam with those players again. The guitarist really took a piece out of my hide after the bassist had left. I still remember him shouting 'I couldn't believe it when you dropped that beat!" and saying how I'd embarrassed him in front of a player he was hoping to impress. Oops.

Of course I was mortified, but a lesson learned ... an example of what can happen with the Peter Principle!

As for the Neal Morse tune, crikey Soulfly, just choose something simpler - maybe a bit of Dream Theater or Tool ;)
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

Very cool. Most likely the musicians used charts to perform this in the studio. Memorizing something like that would be a nightmare and a multi-take expensive endeavor. The best way to learn this, would be to break it down and chart the parts yourself.

Good luck!
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:55 AM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

jaja that vocal part was awesome!
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  #8  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:47 AM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
The guitarist really took a piece out of my hide after the bassist had left. I still remember him shouting 'I couldn't believe it when you dropped that beat!" and saying how I'd embarrassed him in front of a player he was hoping to impress.
If he was hoping to impress the bass player with his guitarist skills, he should have concentrated on his own playing, not berated someone who's kindly come in to help out.
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:13 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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If he was hoping to impress the bass player with his guitarist skills, he should have concentrated on his own playing, not berated someone who's kindly come in to help out.
I think he got where he wanted to be later on anyway. He was trying to get together a network of players for a coop and he wasn't going to attract good players if he has a lightweight drummer on board messing up. I wasn't up to the job. He thought I was up to it but I faltered at a critical stage. ie. had bitten off more than I could chew :)
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

I think I've been totally in over my head in four of the five bands I've played drums in. Funnily enough, the odd one out is the only band I actually decided to leave. I guess I just like a challenge.
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  #11  
Old 08-02-2013, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

Isn't that Portnoy on drums?He works with Neil quite a bit.

Some fast doudle bass stuff and odd time signatures,but most of it is pretty staight ahead stuff.

Good luck.
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
I have a vivid memory of biting off more than I can chew. I'd been jamming with a guitar player for about a year and he started getting into fusion. So he invited this hotshot fusion bassist along and we had a three piece jam. Things were going okay until Billy Cobham's Red Baron. Like a fool I went for gold, trying to ape the hero fill at the end of the progression instead of simplifying.

I screwed up coming back in and was never invited to jam with those players again. The guitarist really took a piece out of my hide after the bassist had left. I still remember him shouting 'I couldn't believe it when you dropped that beat!" and saying how I'd embarrassed him in front of a player he was hoping to impress. Oops.

Of course I was mortified, but a lesson learned ... an example of what can happen with the Peter Principle!

As for the Neal Morse tune, crikey Soulfly, just choose something simpler - maybe a bit of Dream Theater or Tool ;)
If one dropped beat was enough to get the bassist to bail you are probably better off not playing with him.

My question to the guitarist would have been this, "did you hit every note during the jam?" "No?" "Then shut the hell up!"
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  #13  
Old 08-02-2013, 07:02 PM
soulfly28 soulfly28 is offline
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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Originally Posted by tamadrm View Post
Isn't that Portnoy on drums?He works with Neil quite a bit.

Some fast doudle bass stuff and odd time signatures,but most of it is pretty staight ahead stuff.

Good luck.
Yes it is. Thanks. going to really start working on it Monday.
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  #14  
Old 08-02-2013, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIdjLw-7Xa0

Could be worse mate! This is a few minutes of around 40. It's probably my favourite album this week.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

I really like Portnoy's stuff.

I appreciate the link. May have to get started. Those vocals are killing me, though (around the middle - still listening).

Once I got Change of Seasons down (mid-90's), I felt pretty accomplished. It is just flat out fun drumming.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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Originally Posted by eclipseownzu View Post
If one dropped beat was enough to get the bassist to bail you are probably better off not playing with him.

My question to the guitarist would have been this, "did you hit every note during the jam?" "No?" "Then shut the hell up!"
Thanks Eclipse, but I don't remember him messing anything like the small train wreck I created. From memory, I was too surprised to reply when he had his spray.

I always tended to back off the few times I got to play with serious people for that reason - there'd always be someone frothing at the mouth (not always my problem) that would spoil the vibe. Same reason I stuck to social tennis rather than comp - couldn't stand the aggro and tantrums. Ditto why I avoided management at work, despite being qualified.

Some people are serious and intense so they endure, compete and drive forward. Others would rather back off and quietly find a comfortable niche than tangle with hardheads :)
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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I really like Portnoy's stuff.

I actually DON'T like most of the things Portnoy does. I remember "Liquid Tension Experiment" and there were some moments where he completely fell off his "groove" and had problems playing slow tempos. It really turned me off to the guy.

However THIS song is cool as hell.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:12 AM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

Listened to it, and can't see why he's using double bass pedals, as nothing apart from the monotonous16th notes, needs them. The triplets could easily be done with one foot. Too many drummers nowadays use double bass pedals just to be lazy.
I had to memorise a lot more complex time signatures than that, when I'd o nly been drumming for 4 years. Took 3 weeks of gradually memorising so many bars, and repetitions until I remembered a full 50 minutes' worth of material for a rock fusion Zappa-esque band. Straight in at the deep end! It helps if you accent the different bars with words and rhythms. Name each different section after memorising it. I played them in loop form until I got them off, then progressed to the next, inclusive, and when I messed up, started from the beginning. There's no point cutting corners. Start all the way back, even if you miss one beat. Avoid double bass drumming. That's my advice. It's naff. :)
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:54 PM
JasperGTR JasperGTR is offline
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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Listened to it, and can't see why he's using double bass pedals, as nothing apart from the monotonous16th notes, needs them. The triplets could easily be done with one foot. Too many drummers nowadays use double bass pedals just to be lazy....Avoid double bass drumming....
I've been unable to do 16th notes at 240bpm with one foot. Perhaps you could show me a new technique?

I wouldn't want to feel lazy.

(Unless there is a single style of drumming that fits all genres, then teach that to me instead)
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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Originally Posted by soulfly28 View Post
I think I just did. Told my neighbor I would try to learn this....OOPS!!! ANY help would be appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0uFb75wpkE

Around 3:11 is where it starts to get rough for me, and just gets worse :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIdjLw-7Xa0

Could be worse mate! This is a few minutes of around 40. It's probably my favourite album this week.

The drumming capabilities as played in these clips are so beyond me itís not even funny. I just shake my head in awe of whatís possible. Unbelievable.
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  #21  
Old 08-06-2013, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

The thing I like about that 'Sol Niger Within' medley is that whilst it's aggressive, it's also dynamic. Listen to those ghost notes. It's not even funny just how good they are.
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

Try to tune your ear to the scalar changes of the guitar...not the individual notes.

In the scalar changes is where you tend to find the song structure.

This can be a great exercise for future decomposition of manic melodic instrument parts.
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Old 08-06-2013, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
The thing I like about that 'Sol Niger Within' medley is that whilst it's aggressive, it's also dynamic. Listen to those ghost notes. It's not even funny just how good they are.
Agreed...............
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:37 AM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

[quote=I always tended to back off the few times I got to play with serious people for that reason - there'd always be someone frothing at the mouth (not always my problem) that would spoil the vibe. Same reason I stuck to social tennis rather than comp - couldn't stand the aggro and tantrums. Ditto why I avoided management at work, despite being qualified.

Some people are serious and intense so they endure, compete and drive forward. Others would rather back off and quietly find a comfortable niche than tangle with hardheads :)[/QUOTE]


Oh, didn't anyone tell you; musicians have the biggest egos of anyone on earth.
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:31 PM
soulfly28 soulfly28 is offline
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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The drumming capabilities as played in these clips are so beyond me itís not even funny. I just shake my head in awe of whatís possible. Unbelievable.
I just tend to try and go for it. My thoughts are that if you never try, they will always be out of your capabilities. As to the triplets with a single foot, yes, it can be done. Not really with proper technique though. I am trying to unlearn some bad habits too.
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Old 08-07-2013, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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Originally Posted by JasperGTR View Post
I've been unable to do 16th notes at 240bpm with one foot. Perhaps you could show me a new technique?

I wouldn't want to feel lazy.

(Unless there is a single style of drumming that fits all genres, then teach that to me instead)
I did state, apart from the 16th notes, which are monotonous. The rest is basic bass pedal playing.
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Old 08-16-2013, 11:05 AM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

It's a great track though i don't care for the Manhattan Transfer style vocal......
Check out Transatlantic for some great prog-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWC2I9TNuco
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Old 08-16-2013, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
I have a vivid memory of biting off more than I can chew. I'd been jamming with a guitar player for about a year and he started getting into fusion. So he invited this hotshot fusion bassist along and we had a three piece jam. Things were going okay until Billy Cobham's Red Baron. Like a fool I went for gold, trying to ape the hero fill at the end of the progression instead of simplifying.

I screwed up coming back in and was never invited to jam with those players again. The guitarist really took a piece out of my hide after the bassist had left. I still remember him shouting 'I couldn't believe it when you dropped that beat!" and saying how I'd embarrassed him in front of a player he was hoping to impress. Oops.

Of course I was mortified, but a lesson learned ... an example of what can happen with the Peter Principle!

As for the Neal Morse tune, crikey Soulfly, just choose something simpler - maybe a bit of Dream Theater or Tool ;)
Christ....for making a mistake?

I'd have told him to go stick a cucumber up his @rse
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Old 08-17-2013, 05:05 PM
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Christ....for making a mistake?

I'd have told him to go stick a cucumber up his @rse
From memory, I was surprised and didn't know what to say. The way I see it, I was trying to sneak in with company that was really a level above where I was at and my consistency was found wanting. Looked at another way, you could say both he and I dodged a bullet.
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
From memory, I was surprised and didn't know what to say. The way I see it, I was trying to sneak in with company that was really a level above where I was at and my consistency was found wanting. Looked at another way, you could say both he and I dodged a bullet.
what did the bassist say ?

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Old 08-22-2013, 09:54 AM
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what did the bassist say ?
It's a long time ago and I can't remember, Uncle G. Not sure we spoke much.

Looking down this thread it looks like I'm the only person on this forum who's ever failed when trying to move up a class lol
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

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It's a long time ago and I can't remember, Uncle G. Not sure we spoke much.

Looking down this thread it looks like I'm the only person on this forum who's ever failed when trying to move up a class lol
whatever happened to them ?
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:18 PM
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whatever happened to them ?
Can't remember the bassist's name. The guitarist went on to become a pro in a fairly well known band and did session work for some high profile Aussie artists. He's a talented guy.
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:41 PM
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Default Re: Ever bitten off more than you can probably chew?

[quote=Anon La Ply;1173111 Looking down this thread it looks like I'm the only person on this forum who's ever failed when trying to move up a class lol[/QUOTE]


Or one of the few who tried. Sounds like a crappy deal for one mistake. What ever happened to that flattened out flute??? that cracks me up!
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