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  #1  
Old 01-29-2013, 07:02 AM
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Default Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

I so wanted to continue with the flat-based cymbal stands and even after comparing the Ludwig Atlas Classic to the DW6000, and after surviving seeing all the stuff at the NAMM show, I've come to the conclusion that "really" light stuff just will not work for me.

I did a couple of shows with the kids where my stuff would get moved around, so naturally everyone wants to help. I thought it would be good for everybody since everything is so light. Well, as my stuff was moved from an indoor stage to an outside staging area (on grass), my 17" thin crash took a dive when it was knocked over. It's ok, but suddenly I realized what a precarious position my precious cymbals were in being carried by other people. I appreciate the help, but the lightweight stands aren't really meant for people who don't understand them.

If I'm doing a gig where I set up in one place and stay there all night, that's probably one thing. However, that's not always the case with me.

You can imagine how top heavy a flat-based stand is with a 24" K ride on it.

So just for safety's sake alone, I've returned the light stuff to the shop and will be using my Pearl 900-series stuff with it. Having a small boom for the ride means I can put that ride right where I want it. The width of a 26" bass drum puts the ride cymbal a bit far away to a guy who's only 5 feet tall, so the boom helps. The weight of the stands help as everything stays put, and when it gets moved, it's bulky enough (and the legs spread far enough apart) to not get knocked or blown over.

I really wanted it all to work out, but that secure feeling I get with the heavier Pearl stands is a good feeling, especially when the kit gets moved around alot and there's next to no time to make sure everything is tight enough. Having the Tama RoadPro hi-hat stand is another advantage as that stand can handle my 15" New Beats, and my 17" Phat Hats - the Stagemaster stand is a bit flimsy in comparison, and the spring isn't adjustable - I need more tension when I use the Phat Hats.

So, after reading the thread about the guy in the Sabbath band wanting a smaller kit, I decided that I was just being lazy. Like Larry, I like taking my stuff out to play, and to play my best, I don't want to have to worry about my stuff. So I split my hardware between two cases. I have a 24" square rolling trap case that gets the throne, hat, bass pedal, floor tom legs, spurs, sticks and other small items, and I have a hardware bag I bought at the Home Depot years ago for power tools. That bag holds all three Pearl cymbal stands and both snare stands, and when it's in the bag, it's easier to handle on the back, and it travels on top of the rolling trap case when I load in to the venue. The drums get bagged (I got a couple of those Ahead Armor cases) and travel on my Rock n Roller cart (that I bought about 20 years ago now - and it's still going!). My cymbals now travel in an SKB vault with the slide-out luggage handle and it has wheels too. Two trips - one for the drums/cymbals, and one for the trap case, and I'm in the venue. It works. If I take my smaller 4-piece Tama Granstars with less hardware (that lives in its own, smaller trap case with wheels), the whole kit can ride on the cart in one trip.

I'm considering the Ahead Armor cymbal bag that holds up to 24" cymbals. I saw it on the floor at NAMM and was impressed. I've always had a cymbal bag, and using the SKB vault is a big improvement in protection, but man, it's such an event to load it and unload it ;)
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post

I'm considering the Ahead Armor cymbal bag that holds up to 24" cymbals. I saw it on the floor at NAMM and was impressed. I've always had a cymbal bag, and using the SKB vault is a big improvement in protection, but man, it's such an event to load it and unload it ;)
I use two Protection Racket deluxe bags, & they're just perfect. More protection than any other cymbal bag I've seen, yet still a bag, & therefore a breeze to load.

As for your hardware decision, you're using stuff you have confidence in, & get's the job done. There's enough to think about on gigs without having that "niggle" in your mind about stuff not being up to the job.

On a loosely related point, I took a 4 piece to practice last night. Two stands holding a total of three cymbals & a 12" tom. It took me longer to set that up than my full gigging kit! my Pearl DR rack might not be the best looking piece of kit around, but it's as stable as hell, & saves me so much setup time, it's untrue. Less stage footprint too :) So there you go - we use what works!
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:00 AM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

Bo, I use the Ahead Armor Cases Cymbal Silo. I'm sure you'll love it!
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:32 AM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I use two Protection Racket deluxe bags, & they're just perfect. More protection than any other cymbal bag I've seen, yet still a bag, & therefore a breeze to load.

As for your hardware decision, you're using stuff you have confidence in, & get's the job done. There's enough to think about on gigs without having that "niggle" in your mind about stuff not being up to the job.

On a loosely related point, I took a 4 piece to practice last night. Two stands holding a total of three cymbals & a 12" tom. It took me longer to set that up than my full gigging kit! my Pearl DR rack might not be the best looking piece of kit around, but it's as stable as hell, & saves me so much setup time, it's untrue. Less stage footprint too :) So there you go - we use what works!
I like that you at least tried it! But yeah, having all those things attached to two stands....I hated that aspect and I blame Stewart Copeland because he was the one in the late 70s (and Tama's poster child) who got us all into these little attachments you can stick all over your stands. Well, that only really works when you have somebody else setting up for you! The whole 'erector set' mentality really started with him and Billy Cobham! Curse you, Tama!

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Old 01-29-2013, 10:45 AM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
On a loosely related point, I took a 4 piece to practice last night. Two stands holding a total of three cymbals & a 12" tom. It took me longer to set that up than my full gigging kit! my Pearl DR rack might not be the best looking piece of kit around, but it's as stable as hell, & saves me so much setup time, it's untrue. Less stage footprint too :) So there you go - we use what works!
I totally get where you're coming from Andy- I use a pearl rack for the same reasons (it carries 6 cymbals, 3 toms, my towel and my little electric fan) and on the small number of occassions that I leave it at home and downsize to a 4 piece, I can never get comfortable, particularly with my rack tom. The rack sits on a marked Protection racket mat and it's a breeze to set up consistently, every time. Give me 3 cymbal stands and I'm lost!
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  #6  
Old 01-29-2013, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

On another note, after staring at my kit set up this evening, and after seeing the new Ludwig Atlas mounting system, there may be a way to mount both the rack tom and a cymbal, without drilling the bass drum shell.

Alas, I'd have to wait until the Atlas mount is available as a part to buy, but I would only need five of them. By replacing four opposing lugs on the bass drum, a 12.7mm rod could be spanned between two of them, and a cymbal arm attached where the ride should be - so that's an easy alteration. On the other side if I did the same thing with the other two Atlas mounts and installed a 12.7mm rod between the two of them, I'd only need to find a way to attach some kind of mount to that that would hold the 9x13 tom by it's own Atlas mount as well.

The possibilities came to me as I was relaxing, and then it dawned on me after remembering some of the attachments they had going on at NAMM. It can be done....but I'll have to wait until at least May - if we keep with the adage that NAMM stands for "Not Available, Maybe May".
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

FWIW, I would rather see a sturdy stand than the flat based stands. Anything that reminds me of the poor hardware of the 60's...it really did suck and was way under engineered. Yea give me sturdy stands. I couldn't care less about vintage looking hardware, because it all sucked then. The drums are a different story, but as far as hardware goes, I'm more into function over form. I don't understand deliberately spending good money on a stand that's just not as sturdy, that's backwards to me.

I don't need double bracing, I always though that was unnecessary, but a nice tripod based single braced stand with a gearless tilter is what I like seeing. It inspires confidence. I have no confidence in flat based cheaper looking stands, as Bo's cymbal dive illustrates.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

I love the look of flat base stands but I could never be comfortable using them. I play large cymbals and keep them pretty high. That just seems like trouble to me. I love modern "over-engineered" hardware. I can play for hours and never have to adjust anything.Nothing runs away from me the way old hardware did. I prefer a stand that can do anthing I ever ask of it.That way, I never have to spend money on another one. If I wanted to,with a couple of clamps,I could hang 5 cymbals and my rack tom on two Dw9000stands.

Last edited by Bull; 01-29-2013 at 06:53 PM.
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  #9  
Old 01-29-2013, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Alas, I'd have to wait until the Atlas mount is available as a part to buy, but I would only need five of them. By replacing four opposing lugs on the bass drum, a 12.7mm rod could be spanned between two of them, and a cymbal arm attached where the ride should be - so that's an easy alteration. On the other side if I did the same thing with the other two Atlas mounts and installed a 12.7mm rod between the two of them, I'd only need to find a way to attach some kind of mount to that that would hold the 9x13 tom by it's own Atlas mount as well.
I like this idea quite a bit, I've never dug the single point mounting of anything but a splash or something comparable in weight off of the bass drum.

If I had a Ludwig I'd be doing the same, maybe some day. :)

If you get a uniball gyro tilter type boom mount you can get ultimate positioning for your ride.
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  #10  
Old 01-29-2013, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

Bo, since the Atlas seems to accept 12.7 mm rods (at least I think it does judging from what I see on it in the pictures), you could buy a DW Dogbone and an L-rod for the tom. That would really look cool, almost like the rail-mount. Ludwig is doing the 6" stackers and I'm sure you could get that ride right where you wanted it, so long as it's not too heavy. But if it is, you have the boom stand.

I have never subscribed to the "looks over functionality" standard, and I think that the reason heavier, tripod-based hardware became the industry standard was because flat-based stands are inadequate. I don't see the reason for all the mystique and cool factor surrounding them. Is it cool to have half your cymbals on the floor during a gig? Is it cool to not be able to clamp toms onto a stand because it can't hold them? I say thee nay!

I used to use a rack too, but now I use stands and I'm still able to get a pretty accurate setup in not too much time, even though I have clamps going everywhere. Horses for courses.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
I so wanted to continue with the flat-based cymbal stands and even after comparing the Ludwig Atlas Classic to the DW6000, and after surviving seeing all the stuff at the NAMM show, I've come to the conclusion that "really" light stuff just will not work for me.

I did a couple of shows with the kids where my stuff would get moved around, so naturally everyone wants to help. I thought it would be good for everybody since everything is so light. Well, as my stuff was moved from an indoor stage to an outside staging area (on grass), my 17" thin crash took a dive when it was knocked over. It's ok, but suddenly I realized what a precarious position my precious cymbals were in being carried by other people. I appreciate the help, but the lightweight stands aren't really meant for people who don't understand them.

If I'm doing a gig where I set up in one place and stay there all night, that's probably one thing. However, that's not always the case with me.

You can imagine how top heavy a flat-based stand is with a 24" K ride on it.

So just for safety's sake alone, I've returned the light stuff to the shop and will be using my Pearl 900-series stuff with it. Having a small boom for the ride means I can put that ride right where I want it. The width of a 26" bass drum puts the ride cymbal a bit far away to a guy who's only 5 feet tall, so the boom helps. The weight of the stands help as everything stays put, and when it gets moved, it's bulky enough (and the legs spread far enough apart) to not get knocked or blown over.

I really wanted it all to work out, but that secure feeling I get with the heavier Pearl stands is a good feeling, especially when the kit gets moved around alot and there's next to no time to make sure everything is tight enough. Having the Tama RoadPro hi-hat stand is another advantage as that stand can handle my 15" New Beats, and my 17" Phat Hats - the Stagemaster stand is a bit flimsy in comparison, and the spring isn't adjustable - I need more tension when I use the Phat Hats.

So, after reading the thread about the guy in the Sabbath band wanting a smaller kit, I decided that I was just being lazy. Like Larry, I like taking my stuff out to play, and to play my best, I don't want to have to worry about my stuff. So I split my hardware between two cases. I have a 24" square rolling trap case that gets the throne, hat, bass pedal, floor tom legs, spurs, sticks and other small items, and I have a hardware bag I bought at the Home Depot years ago for power tools. That bag holds all three Pearl cymbal stands and both snare stands, and when it's in the bag, it's easier to handle on the back, and it travels on top of the rolling trap case when I load in to the venue. The drums get bagged (I got a couple of those Ahead Armor cases) and travel on my Rock n Roller cart (that I bought about 20 years ago now - and it's still going!). My cymbals now travel in an SKB vault with the slide-out luggage handle and it has wheels too. Two trips - one for the drums/cymbals, and one for the trap case, and I'm in the venue. It works. If I take my smaller 4-piece Tama Granstars with less hardware (that lives in its own, smaller trap case with wheels), the whole kit can ride on the cart in one trip.

I'm considering the Ahead Armor cymbal bag that holds up to 24" cymbals. I saw it on the floor at NAMM and was impressed. I've always had a cymbal bag, and using the SKB vault is a big improvement in protection, but man, it's such an event to load it and unload it ;)
Bo,

I've actually thought of completing my own flat-base cymbal vibe.

What size cymbal have you found to be too much for a flat base? I ask because I use a 22" Bounce ride as my main ride.

I currently have it mounted on a Gibraltar Stealth rack along with a 20" flat ride, a cowbell, and sometimes a 17" crash. I'm considering going to all flat-base just to, as you said, complete a vibe. Now I'm wondering it's really worth it.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

If you have to wonder, or have doubts...there's your answer. I really think that the guy using the flat based stands is the only one who knows it.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
If you have to wonder, or have doubts...there's your answer. I really think that the guy using the flat based stands is the only one who knows it.
Well, I currently use on for my 19" ride on my left and never had any issues. Just wondering if 22" is 'too much' for the flat-base stands.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

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Well, I currently use on for my 19" ride on my left and never had any issues. Just wondering if 22" is 'too much' for the flat-base stands.
I'm using a 24" K, but my 17" is the one that took the dive. As Larry says, a good tripod-stand is what's needed and its become the standard. He's right about it not having to be double-braced, you just need the spread. I've had these Pearls for a while now and they're actually not much heavier than say, DW's single braced 7000 line so I went with them cause they were even cheaper (of course) than DW.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

As much as I dig my FB's I'm doing some re-thinking also lately.

I CAN put my 24" rides (various weights) on the FB, and beat the hell out of it, and the stand is sturdy, no problems.

The crashes I have been putting at different heights, and I'm kind of leaning toward going back to regular stands for those 2 crashes.

Stability from other people around them is my main thinking--by you (Bo) bringing it up actually.
The FB hat, and tom stand would stay though. I've not used a FB for the snare.

The Atlas mount will work putting the cymbal where you want it, with not much more than a plain L rod cymbal mount, as you don't seem to have it that high anyway.
Or, an L-Rod, with a DW tilter attachment will work too. I have used these in the past, and it's as sturdy as you'd ever need. Using those 2 parts would allow for more adjustment too.

For the tom, I'd use an Atlas mount with the Dunnett version of the rail mount sold by Gibraltar. It's sturdy, low profile, and could easily be just taken off for pack up.
Slap the memory lock on the curved "rail" and you're set the same every time.

I have both a PR 24" bag, and a 24" Ahead Bag. Overall, they are pretty much the same, but the Ahead has a slightly stiffer outer shell than the PR. The Ahead zipper pulls seem a little bigger too. The handles are pretty much the same.
PR got bought out, and the old PR distributors put out the Ahead bags. if I purchased bags for my drums, I'd go with the Ahead bags because of how they zip up.

I will say that the large Ahead rubber/plastic badge on the front pouch is nice protection for the cymbal, but it's kinda stiff zipping it up, if you leave the top cymbal with the clutch attached like I do. Just putting hats in without the clutch is no problem.

The only thing I wish both these brand bags did is open in the dang center, rather than closer to one end. Getting a 24" cymbal that has more "flap" over it is a PITA, so I have to put it in last.
After a gig, you just want to put stuff away, no have to "think" about it much....but I may be getting one of those 23" Sweet Rides, so it might not be an issue hahaha!
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

I have both the DW 9000 and DW 3000-whatever series stands. The former is extremely heavy, but the 3000 stands work with heavy cymbals and are about 50% lighter.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:17 AM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

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Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
As much as I dig my FB's I'm doing some re-thinking also lately.

I CAN put my 24" rides (various weights) on the FB, and beat the hell out of it, and the stand is sturdy, no problems.

The crashes I have been putting at different heights, and I'm kind of leaning toward going back to regular stands for those 2 crashes.

Stability from other people around them is my main thinking--by you (Bo) bringing it up actually.
The FB hat, and tom stand would stay though. I've not used a FB for the snare.

The Atlas mount will work putting the cymbal where you want it, with not much more than a plain L rod cymbal mount, as you don't seem to have it that high anyway.
Or, an L-Rod, with a DW tilter attachment will work too. I have used these in the past, and it's as sturdy as you'd ever need. Using those 2 parts would allow for more adjustment too.

For the tom, I'd use an Atlas mount with the Dunnett version of the rail mount sold by Gibraltar. It's sturdy, low profile, and could easily be just taken off for pack up.
Slap the memory lock on the curved "rail" and you're set the same every time.

I have both a PR 24" bag, and a 24" Ahead Bag. Overall, they are pretty much the same, but the Ahead has a slightly stiffer outer shell than the PR. The Ahead zipper pulls seem a little bigger too. The handles are pretty much the same.
PR got bought out, and the old PR distributors put out the Ahead bags. if I purchased bags for my drums, I'd go with the Ahead bags because of how they zip up.

I will say that the large Ahead rubber/plastic badge on the front pouch is nice protection for the cymbal, but it's kinda stiff zipping it up, if you leave the top cymbal with the clutch attached like I do. Just putting hats in without the clutch is no problem.

The only thing I wish both these brand bags did is open in the dang center, rather than closer to one end. Getting a 24" cymbal that has more "flap" over it is a PITA, so I have to put it in last.
After a gig, you just want to put stuff away, no have to "think" about it much....but I may be getting one of those 23" Sweet Rides, so it might not be an issue hahaha!
Cool. I think I do have the cymbal part figured out, but I will check the Dunnett rail mount. I don't think I've ever seen one. Are you saying I could attach one end into the bass mounted Atlas mount, and the rest of it just rests on the shell? This will be intriguing to say the least. You have a link to the Dunnett mount? Who sells those?
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:36 AM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

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Cool. I think I do have the cymbal part figured out, but I will check the Dunnett rail mount. I don't think I've ever seen one. Are you saying I could attach one end into the bass mounted Atlas mount, and the rest of it just rests on the shell? This will be intriguing to say the least. You have a link to the Dunnett mount? Who sells those?
All of Ronn's R class products are sold by Gibraltar. Here's his mount at DFD.com

http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/ind...oducts_id=3864
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:22 AM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

Well, in addition to un-doing the vibe, I looked into financing this little project (for the Atlas mounts, the cymbal arm, and the Dunnett rail mount, and any other little bits and pieces I might need) and after all is said and done, this little upgrade could cost upwards of $300. Although I reserve the right change my mind in the future, the fact of the matter is too, that the Atlas stuff won't be available until May or later anyway.

So, I thought I'd set up the kit in the normal way I always set up my kits, and have discovered that I like it. Even better. I went back to straight cymbal stands on both sides and even with my 24" a little further out to my left, it feels good. It's comfortable to play. I took the 18" floor tom away too. Maybe I'll turn it into a bass drum. But really, as a four-piece kit with just a couple of cymbals, it's nice to have people comment on my playing instead.

So please get a look at my new Safari kit on steroids ;) It's going out this weekend like this for my next two gigs.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:34 AM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
FWIW, I would rather see a sturdy stand than the flat based stands. Anything that reminds me of the poor hardware of the 60's...it really did suck and was way under engineered. Yea give me sturdy stands. I couldn't care less about vintage looking hardware, because it all sucked then. The drums are a different story, but as far as hardware goes, I'm more into function over form. I don't understand deliberately spending good money on a stand that's just not as sturdy, that's backwards to me.

I don't need double bracing, I always though that was unnecessary, but a nice tripod based single braced stand with a gearless tilter is what I like seeing. It inspires confidence. I have no confidence in flat based cheaper looking stands, as Bo's cymbal dive illustrates.
I concur. I do not care for flat-based stands. All but one of my cymbal, snare, and hi-hat stands are single braced. Peace and goodwill.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:14 AM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

I don't get nostalgic over things that never worked good in the first place. Flat base to me conjures worry and desire for something better.

Lets all wear Nehru shirts and medallions while we're at it.

Yea, that didn't work either lol.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:52 AM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

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Lets all wear Nehru shirts and medallions while we're at it.

Yea, that didn't work either lol.
Hey now wait a minute...... ;)
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:54 AM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

I'm going to throw a wrench into the whole works.

I have a full set of Atlas classic stands (some flat base Gibraltar stands too).
One straight Atlas, two boom, a mini boom arm on a clamp, snare drum stand, hihat stand AND the bass drum pedal...the one with no bottom plate.

Not one 'stability' issue whatsoever. I gig three times a month. I play a variety of styles and use cymbals from 14" to 22" on the FB stands. I am not a basher but I can hit hard when needed.

I bought the full set because I wanted an alternative to the Yamaha 700 series hardware I usually gig with. I wanted an 'All American' kit (and I'm a Canadian!) + hardware + cymbals. I bought the Gretsch '57 kit and thought the Atlas Classic and Zildjian K cymbals would be a cool combo.
The Atlas classic hardware is markedly lighter than my 700 series kit, and it fits into my ProRac hardware bag without having to take it partially apart. 700 series stands - I have to take the cymbal boom apart for it to fit.
I have the following issues with Atlas Classic hardware:

1)The Hihat stand was way out of spec from the factory. The top 'tube' with the cup/disk that supports the bottom hihat was way too long. It put the hihat cymbals way too high, like Travis Barker high. I confirmed the proper length of the top tube with another member here on DW. I had to cut the top tube with a pipe cutter and I also put in a shorter clutch rod.

2)The bass drum pedal is fine - feels good and I get get it where I like it. The beater is very soft and is flattened out after only about 5 gigs on it.
I HATE the fact that I am forced to use a drum key to clamp it on. Arggggg!

3)The threads for the top wing bolt on one of the cymbal stands seems a little rough and it's kinda hard to get the bolt on. I should be able to start it, give it spin and have it turn a few times. It just kinda sticks there.

Other than those minor gripes, I really like the stands. I can see the need for larger heavier duty stands (have a few myself). But also - these are not even a little like the old crappy flat based garbage of days gone by. I am old enough to have had the misfortune to use them. It's what swore me off Ludwig for years and years.

I think to throw them into that same category of flat base = unstable is unfair.
They are fine...just not in extremes perhaps.

P.S. And I also have the Pro Rack deluxe cymbal bag AND the Ahead 24" bag - the Ahead bag is nicer..by a bit. More padding, more room, more dividers. Seems heavier duty.

Last edited by evilg99; 01-31-2013 at 05:00 AM. Reason: added stuff
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  #24  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:04 AM
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Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilg99 View Post
I'm going to throw a wrench into the whole works.

I have a full set of Atlas classic stands (some flat base Gibraltar stands too).
One straight Atlas, two boom, a mini boom arm on a clamp, snare drum stand, hihat stand AND the bass drum pedal...the one with no bottom plate.

Not one 'stability' issue whatsoever. I gig three times a month. I play a variety of styles and use cymbals from 14" to 22" on the FB stands. I am not a basher but I can hit hard when needed.

I bought the full set because I wanted an alternative to the Yamaha 700 series hardware I usually gig with. I wanted an 'All American' kit (and I'm a Canadian!) + hardware + cymbals. I bought the Gretsch '57 kit and thought the Atlas Classic and Zildjian K cymbals would be a cool combo.
The Atlas classic hardware is markedly lighter than my 700 series kit, and it fits into my ProRac hardware bag without having to take it partially apart. 700 series stands - I have to take the cymbal boom apart for it to fit.
I have the following issues with Atlas Classic hardware:

1)The Hihat stand was way out of spec from the factory. The top 'tube' with the cup/disk that supports the bottom hihat was way too long. It put the hihat cymbals way too high, like Travis Barker high. I confirmed the proper length of the top tube with another member here on DW. I had to cut the top tube with a pipe cutter and I also put in a shorter clutch rod.

2)The bass drum pedal is fine - feels good and I get get it where I like it. The beater is very soft and is flattened out after only about 5 gigs on it.
I HATE the fact that I am forced to use a drum key to clamp it on. Arggggg!

3)The threads for the top wing bolt on one of the cymbal stands seems a little rough and it's kinda hard to get the bolt on. I should be able to start it, give it spin and have it turn a few times. It just kinda sticks there.

Other than those minor gripes, I really like the stands. I can see the need for larger heavier duty stands (have a few myself). But also - these are not even a little like the old crappy flat based garbage of days gone by. I am old enough to have had the misfortune to use them. It's what swore me off Ludwig for years and years.

I think to throw them into that same category of flat base = unstable is unfair.
They are fine...just not in extremes perhaps.

P.S. And I also have the Pro Rack deluxe cymbal bag AND the Ahead 24" bag - the Ahead bag is nicer..by a bit. More padding, more room, more dividers. Seems heavier duty.
Well, I wasn't knocking the flat based hardware that hard. I still rather like the look and to some degree for me, they worked. But in my particular situation with people grabbing stuff and moving it from place-to-place, they're not the right tool. In this instance my 17" thin crash took a dive. I think I would cry if my 24" K Light Ride hit the concrete.

As I said, if it was just me setting up in one place for the night, they'd be perfect. But doing festival situations doesn't allow that - you still set up in one place, move it to the stage, then move it off again to pack it up. I haven't done a bar gig or a wedding in a long time. When I do, I'll probably use them again.

But with my even smaller set-up with the Pearl 900/Tama RoadPro stands, the load isn't that heavy. A little bulkier, but the weight difference was just a bit heavier than if I had been carrying the flat based stands. So for me it's not that big of a trade-off. I'd like to make the flat based stands work for me, but there's too many people variables around me for most things I do.

I think I'm quite sold on the Ahead 24" cymbal bag though. I'll get one of those soon.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:58 AM
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philosafari philosafari is offline
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brady View Post
Bo,

I've actually thought of completing my own flat-base cymbal vibe.

What size cymbal have you found to be too much for a flat base? I ask because I use a 22" Bounce ride as my main ride.

I currently have it mounted on a Gibraltar Stealth rack along with a 20" flat ride, a cowbell, and sometimes a 17" crash. I'm considering going to all flat-base just to, as you said, complete a vibe. Now I'm wondering it's really worth it.
As the owner of both a 22" Bounce Ride and a Ludwig Atlas flat base stand, I can honestly say that it works quite well and I've never felt like it wasn't sturdy enough.
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  #26  
Old 01-31-2013, 02:16 PM
drumhammerer drumhammerer is offline
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

there's a guy around town that uses all the old original flat base stands, (since he has to have everything vintage), and I swear every time I saw him live, he either broke one of those stands, or knocked one over (none of his crashes were smaller than 22"). Not really a fan of the FB's unless it's going for a vintage vibe. Ironically though, I turn my snare stands into flat base stands by flattening them all the way to the floor, to get them out of the way of the double pedal- but that can be done with any old snare stand (not sure if cymbal stands can do this).
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  #27  
Old 01-31-2013, 06:22 PM
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evilg99 evilg99 is offline
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Well, I wasn't knocking the flat based hardware that hard. I still rather like the look and to some degree for me, they worked. But in my particular situation with people grabbing stuff and moving it from place-to-place, they're not the right tool. In this instance my 17" thin crash took a dive. I think I would cry if my 24" K Light Ride hit the concrete.

As I said, if it was just me setting up in one place for the night, they'd be perfect. But doing festival situations doesn't allow that - you still set up in one place, move it to the stage, then move it off again to pack it up. I haven't done a bar gig or a wedding in a long time. When I do, I'll probably use them again.

But with my even smaller set-up with the Pearl 900/Tama RoadPro stands, the load isn't that heavy. A little bulkier, but the weight difference was just a bit heavier than if I had been carrying the flat based stands. So for me it's not that big of a trade-off. I'd like to make the flat based stands work for me, but there's too many people variables around me for most things I do.

I think I'm quite sold on the Ahead 24" cymbal bag though. I'll get one of those soon.
I concur Bo, I can see where having other people handle things, and being in a rush...having something more substantial is definitely worth while.
I should have read your first post a little closer. I would would be pissed if one of my K's took a dive. Even a splash.

I have worked on many a 'festival stage' both as a performer and as an audio tech (TV shows with multiple setups/teardowns) with very fast turnarounds - plus you often have small, dark , cluttered spaces backstage to put things. You need all the stability and help you can possibly get in those situations!

Just FYI on the Ahead bag - I have recently seen two slightly different iterations of the same 24" bag - one had 3 thick, rather stiff cymbal dividers inside - and the other (the one I bought) has 5 thinner, pliable cloth-like furry dividers. I don't know if Ahead offers both types, or maybe one was an improvement on the other. If anybody else has one, what are the dividers like?

Neal

Last edited by evilg99; 01-31-2013 at 10:47 PM. Reason: double double
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  #28  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

I knew you'd understand ;)

BTW - I ordered the Ahead bag last night and got notification it shipped out already. I checked it out and they have two versions: one with straps to turn it into a satellite dish backpack, and the other a normal bag with a shoulder strap. I got the regular one. They didn't specify the type of dividers but they said they can be removed. I'll probably only use one since I only carry a ride and a crash. My 15" hats can go in that outside pocket. After 20+ years with a full leather Reunion Blues cymbal bag, which has no dividers, this will be a nice change. I hope it lasts as long ;)
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  #29  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:28 PM
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KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

I have 2 of those Ahead cymbal bags, and I think I got both styles of dividers too.
I can't remember which was first though. I like the heavier plastic-y material dividers better. They won't scratch, and are easier to deal with because they are more stable. I just used the wool type for cymbals I store.

After having the Atlas stuff almost a year now...
Classic hat stand-- I don't play the hats real low (but not "high" either), and I can see how it might not go low enough without a pipe cutting. The rod is a perfect length for me because I sometimes use a ching-ring. It's actually at the height I cut all my DW hat rods down to.
I also got a memory lock with a Atlas wing nut on it. It goes over the top of the legs where they attach. I haven't seen it in pics, but it's a nice extra "stop" for the legs to possibly get loose.
Anyone else get that on the stand?

All of my Atlas wing nuts go on super smooth. I'm really quite impressed by the wing nuts actually.
I originally had 6 straights, but took 3 back and got 3 boom/straights--every single wing nut has worked flawlessly.
The wing nut hanging up was a beef on quite a few of my DW stands though. Got replacement wing nuts and problem solved, but it was a PITA before I got the new ones.

I also HATE that they lamed out and used a key screw for attaching that model pedal (that EvilG has) to the hoop. It's a generic cheap-out IMO.
I got the Atlas Pro version and it's a cool pedal. That one is super easy to get on and off the hoop. I'm selling it though, just didn't like the floating spring deal (same reason I don't dig DW 9000's).

There are kinda more pluses than minuses for me with these Atlas stands, but I wish the tilter was just "straight" up and down rather than sticking out an inch going the opposite way.
I know it's for easy fold up, but I don't EVER fold the tiler down, and it makes it a slight nuisance for placing the stand and cymbal exactly where I want it.
I have used my DW and Gibraltar tilters with the Atlas stand because of that issue, and that works just fine...but it kinda bugs me because I wanna use the stuff "stock" you know?
I waited forever for Ludwig to get great hardware, and they have it now, but little things just don't work the greatest for me.
I know nothing is perfect, but, it's kind of a drag.

I also wish they included that little memory lock for the boom arm on the Classic, like they do for the PRO version. Just because it's a lighter version stand doesn't mean it's the "stripped down budget model"--which it ISN'T because of the price of the things!
And at least have memory locks for all the tube sizes available for people that want them!

I'm kinda leaning toward going back to my mid-weight DW stands, but I'm not sure yet. I need stand therapy hahaha!! I could have a lot worse things to worry about though, so I'm not complaining!
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  #30  
Old 01-31-2013, 10:54 PM
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evilg99 evilg99 is offline
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

Thanks Karl, always interested in your take on anything metal related.
I hereby deem you the resident Drummerworld Hardware Ninja. :)
There may be folks here with more hardware, but maybe none as intimately familiar with every nut, bolt, spring and washer of what you do have.
Cheers.

Neal
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  #31  
Old 02-01-2013, 07:02 PM
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KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
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Default Re: Sorry, I've undone the vibe.

Haha! Thanks, it's a sickness :-)
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