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  #81  
Old 01-12-2019, 05:28 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Just a question, in line with the lug choice thoughts. Do guitar players or shoppers look at the style of tuning pegs when searching out guitars.???
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  #82  
Old 01-12-2019, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

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Just a question, in line with the lug choice thoughts. Do guitar players or shoppers look at the style of tuning pegs when searching out guitars.???
Unless they're looking at locking tuners, I highly doubt it. Even if a guitar doesn't have tuners you like, you can replace those pretty easily and it's very cost-effective.
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  #83  
Old 01-12-2019, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
Just a question, in line with the lug choice thoughts. Do guitar players or shoppers look at the style of tuning pegs when searching out guitars.???
Actually a lot of them do. It is a bit less of an issue though than on drums because a replacement set of tuners is fairly inexpensive.
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  #84  
Old 01-12-2019, 07:52 PM
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Maybe I'm missing a piece or something, (the box was open when I got it, with no directions),
but I can't get the wing nut tightened enough to hold the piece I've got circled in red,
from allowing the tom to swivel down after a while,
even if I put a wrench to it.
Metal on metal with no positioning dowels or anything, to allow for free movement, I guess.
I'm thinking about drilling and pinning it to hold it in place, or switching to a different mount altogether.
That’s definitely the only weak point of the mount in my opinion. I’m not a heavy hitter type, and have never had it move while playing, but I inadvertently leaned against it once, and it went down to the kick shell. I’ve also considered the drill and pin idea, but I’m gonna try the thin rubber idea, of maybe even a piece of tin foil since to reduce the slip tolerance since I have that here…
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  #85  
Old 01-12-2019, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
Just a question, in line with the lug choice thoughts. Do guitar players or shoppers look at the style of tuning pegs when searching out guitars.???
As a bass player I definitely do. Although,as previously mentioned they’re much less expensive to replace than lugs- a set of Gotoh aluminum vintage bass tuners which are my absolute favorite, can be had for about $110.
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  #86  
Old 01-12-2019, 08:47 PM
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Just a question, in line with the lug choice thoughts. Do guitar players or shoppers look at the style of tuning pegs when searching out guitars.???
Certain designs belong to certain models. Gibsons have the pearl-ish crown shape; Fenders have rounded silver pegs. Guitar players might look out for the shape, but usually they're more concerned with the machine heads attached to the tuning pegs. Better machine heads means more precise and consistent tuning. So it's a function thing, rather than aesthetic, for the most part.

By this logic, a lug/tension rod design that has more threads per inch would allow for more precise tuning, but you'd be hard pressed to demonstrate any real benefit over what's already on the market.
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  #87  
Old 01-12-2019, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

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Originally Posted by BertTheDrummer View Post
I refuse to go deeper than 16" on a kick now days, and actually prefer 14" personally.

Though that's why they make different options.
Both my kicks are deep. Sonor 17" and Gretsch 18". They both sound great but I don't gig much anymore. I think if I did I wouldn't use anything deeper than 16". I think companies are starting to hear players desire for kicks that are shallower. I'll just have to "suffer" if I have to take mine out.
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  #88  
Old 01-12-2019, 09:04 PM
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By this logic, a lug/tension rod design that has more threads per inch would allow for more precise tuning, but you'd be hard pressed to demonstrate any real benefit over what's already on the market.
DW at least is trying to push that.
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  #89  
Old 01-12-2019, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BertTheDrummer View Post
DW at least is trying to push that.
It shouldn't really matter. The greater the pitch of the tuning rod, the more turns it takes to go the same distance. It does provide a larger sweet spot if you will, but takes longer to get there. The lesser pitched rod still fids the same spot, just with less turns. The current rod tunes just fine IMO.

Staying in tune may be a different story. The more threads per inch, the flatter they are. The flatter the threads, the more per inch, more friction, so on and so forth. They may stay in tune longer.
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  #90  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by BertTheDrummer View Post
DW at least is trying to push that.
I think exclusivity has a lot to do with the fine thread rods. That is, when you need replacement rods, you must buy the DW brand.

Bermuda
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  #91  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:49 AM
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I think exclusivity has a lot to do with the fine thread rods. That is, when you need replacement rods, you must buy the DW brand.

Bermuda
Quite possibly, but they do try and tout that it is for tuning.

"To give drummers even more control over their sound, DW created its patented True-Pitch® rod system. The rods feature 5mm threads rather than the 12/24 that’s standard on most other drums. To compare, there is 1 thread every 0.8mm on our True-Pitch® rods (about 20% more threads), versus 1 thread every 1.05mm on most other drums. The result is a more exacting tuning process."

Disclaimer: I'm not a DW apologist and don't actually own any DW drums. Just repeating what DW's marketing speak is saying.
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  #92  
Old 01-13-2019, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by BertTheDrummer View Post
Quite possibly, but they do try and tout that it is for tuning.

"To give drummers even more control over their sound, DW created its patented True-Pitch® rod system. The rods feature 5mm threads rather than the 12/24 that’s standard on most other drums. To compare, there is 1 thread every 0.8mm on our True-Pitch® rods (about 20% more threads), versus 1 thread every 1.05mm on most other drums. The result is a more exacting tuning process."

Disclaimer: I'm not a DW apologist and don't actually own any DW drums. Just repeating what DW's marketing speak is saying.
This makes no sense. 12/24 is 24 threads per inch. One thread per .8mm is 20 threads per inch. This would make fine tuning harder. ( 1 inch = 25.4mm. 25.4 x .8 = 20.32) If the thread count was more then sure, but it is less. Less threads equals broader tuning. Think about a tuning rod with 2 threads per inch. That's a tuning nightmare.

Sounds like marketing to me.
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  #93  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

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Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
One thread per .8mm is 20 threads per inch.
Check your math. It equals 31.75 threads per inch compared to only 24 for standard tension rods.
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  #94  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:32 AM
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Check your math. It equals 31.75 threads per inch compared to only 24 for standard tension rods.
I used a calculator. 25.4x0.8=20.32. Oh wait, you are correct. 20.32 is .8 of 25.4. I should have multiplied by 1.25. My mistake.

In that case, what I said earlier. May stay in tune longer, but I don't think it will make tuning easier.
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  #95  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:36 AM
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I used a calculator. 25.4x0.8=20.32. Oh wait, you are correct. 20.32 is .8 of 25.4. I should have multiplied by 1.25. My mistake.

In that case, what I said earlier. May stay in tune longer, but I don't think it will make tuning easier.
I think the argument is basically since it takes more turns to accomplish the same result, so it is easier to do a very small change. On the other side it would mean you would have to do more turns when taking off a head or getting to the point where you would be fine tuning the head anyway.
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  #96  
Old 01-13-2019, 02:45 AM
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I think the argument is basically since it takes more turns to accomplish the same result, so it is easier to do a very small change. On the other side it would mean you would have to do more turns when taking off a head or getting to the point where you would be fine tuning the head anyway.
Yeah I don't think the benefits are in the tuning. Sure, it would be easier to fine tune the drum if you required the extra turns, but I think staying in tune would be the more useful advantage. Either way, I personally feel this is just a marketing gimmick. Don't we all tune before playing every time?
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  #97  
Old 01-13-2019, 04:37 AM
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I think exclusivity has a lot to do with the fine thread rods. That is, when you need replacement rods, you must buy the DW brand.

Bermuda
One reason I won't consider DW.
Across the board standards are better IMO.
Especially for stuff like if you need to grab a tension rod without worrying if you'll cross thread it,
and ruin stuff because someone didn't follow the standard.

An extreme case, to be sure, but I don't like "Hey - look at me - I'm different".
I'd feel the same way about 7 or 9 hole hoops, or 21 or 23" bass drums.
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  #98  
Old 01-13-2019, 04:54 AM
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One reason I won't consider DW.
Across the board standards are better IMO.
Especially for stuff like if you need to grab a tension rod without worrying if you'll cross thread it,
and ruin stuff because someone didn't follow the standard.

An extreme case, to be sure, but I don't like "Hey - look at me - I'm different".
I'd feel the same way about 7 or 9 hole hoops, or 21 or 23" bass drums.
23” bass drums? Not even DW would be brazen enough to attempt a marketing ploy of that magnitude 😉
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  #99  
Old 01-13-2019, 04:59 AM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Peart had a 23 inch bass drum!!
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  #100  
Old 01-13-2019, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
May stay in tune longer, but I don't think it will make tuning easier.
Remaining in tune isn't the feature being touted (for that we have lug locks, coated T-rods, etc.). DW's literature says "exacting", which is pretty vague. Even so, here's a way to test the idea:

1. Get a Tune Bot and tune a "normal" drum and a DW drum to some reasonable frequency.
2. Decide on an increase (or decrease) in that frequency. 25 Hz, for example.
3. Tune them both up (or down) to that new frequency.

If thread count makes any difference, getting to the target frequency should be more "linear", i.e. there is less chance of overshooting the target frequency when making small adjustments to tuning. And to be scientifically rigorous, you'd have to do this in a great number of double blind tests, and show statistical significance of your findings.
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  #101  
Old 01-13-2019, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
The lesser pitched rod still fids the same spot, just with less turns. The current rod tunes just fine IMO.
Agreed that current rods do tune just fine. But I'm not a Tune Bot user. If I were a high profile drummer, I might instruct my tech to use one, and to return the kit to the same frequencies each night.

I think the question is: if you're going for a VERY specific sweet spot (i.e. a specific tension at each lug), will more threads make that sweet spot easier to find?

Even when a drum is tuned very well, with a specific pitch in mind, there's still a bit of pitch bend that happens as the drum rings out. So tuning drums to notes -- it's a bit like a game of horseshoes.

Times like these I wish I could sit down Terry Bozzio's drum tech and ask him some of these questions.
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  #102  
Old 01-13-2019, 07:18 PM
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So then this begs the question, what heads and do the extra threads have the same impact? Maybe on a nice ambassador, but a pinstripe? And will people painstakingly tune their kick drum to a specific interval, only to stuff it with laundry?

Personally, I didn't think there was a problem with how we tune a drum. I thought that was all figured out already.

I don't use a Tune Bot or any other kind of tuner, just my ears. I doubt the extra threads would help someone like me at all.
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  #103  
Old 01-13-2019, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

Me personally, I don't notice any hardship in tuning my DW. I do love that it doesn't lose its tuning to quick.
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  #104  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:23 AM
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From Yamaha: brand new acoustic and electronic drums along with streamlined and customizable drum hardware.
http://mmrmagazine.com/news/supplier...ter-namm-show/
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  #105  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:17 AM
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Looks like TAMA will introduce this...

Big black steel SLP drum kit



https://youtu.be/w_lyrc7x9Tg?t=254

Last edited by CraigiB; 01-18-2019 at 11:21 AM. Reason: Wrong time in youtube link
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:31 AM
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  #106  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:36 AM
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Looks like TAMA will introduce this...

Big black steel SLP drum kit



https://youtu.be/w_lyrc7x9Tg?t=254
I wonder why they would use the cheaper brackets/spurs/etc, and only put 8 lugs on the kick, as opposed to putting it in the Starclassic line... Especially at $1800 USD.
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  #107  
Old 01-18-2019, 10:28 PM
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PDP is going to have a new finish available in the Concept Classic line and a bunch of hardware accessories.

Sabian is doing some rebranding/relabeling with the AAX line.
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  #108  
Old 01-21-2019, 04:39 AM
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a little late to the convo of jbonzo1 and drumprof...

Firstly, we are all addicted this stuff; knowing that is the first step :) That being said, what a magnificent addiction to have. Just a week ago I placed an order for a snare at my local shop. Yesterday I called in asking about another snare.

I agree that finishes are not what yamaha is focused on. I wish they would offer more options. That being said, there are many aftermarket companies that have wraps to apply to drum shells. To find a person who truly knows what they are doing when it comes to refinishing, wrapping, and other shell alterations is best. I enjoy having a person work on my drum when I know that person has worked many thousands of drums before mine.

Adding a wrap to a drum or adding one nice outer ply of wood will not make a humongous difference in sound. It would be a different story if the outer ply was much thicker than the rest of the shell, but only one thin ply isn’t effecting the sound much. Of course the sound will change because the structure is now different, but it will not be a stark difference. I do not believe it is as big of a difference as lets say changing a bearing edge, adding many outer plys, or cutting the size an inch or two. After re-raping my kit and also talking to drum manufacturers that add outer plys and outer wraps, I truly believe that the sound difference is minimal.

I noticed a difference when I had a wrap put on my stained wood drums, but it was not a big difference like say hitting a 12 inch tom versus a 16 inch tom, using a 7A versus 2B, or even playing a marimba and mouth organ. I further took time to reach out to different drum companies that add different species of wood as outer plys and add different wraps to kits. They do not feel it makes a humongous difference too.

I am under the impression a very noticeable difference lies when many plys are added to the drum (two ply maple, three ply poplar, two ply maple and the like). I do not have much experience with the effect of altering the inner plys. I am leaning towards the idea that that does make a difference after playing the absolute maples and kits with a middle layer that differs with the inner and outer layers like maple/gum/maple or mahogany/gum/mahogany.

This is just what I have noticed. I look forward to seeing other points of view as replies come in. In short, I say let drum companies come out with lame finishes and let us re-wrap them with what we see as cool.

Peace and Love
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  #109  
Old 01-21-2019, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

New PDP accessories now listed on Musicians Friend. Tension rods, wing nuts, etc.
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  #110  
Old 01-22-2019, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BertTheDrummer View Post
I refuse to go deeper than 16" on a kick now days, and actually prefer 14" personally.

Though that's why they make different options.
For sound you like 14" depth bas drums? Thats tough to swallow. Its funny to me that so many shallow bass drum enthusiasts have the opposite opinion for floor toms. The bass drum should be no more than 14" deep but a floor tom should be 14x14 or 16x16. I disagree whole heartedly. My 16x14 floor and 24x18 kick are face melters. Sticking to your guns only works for so long. Eventually you find yourself armed with a muzzle loader in a world of superior weaponry. I say give up the ghost already.
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  #111  
Old 01-22-2019, 12:22 AM
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Sticking to your guns only works for so long.
Be sure to tell Simon Phillips all about your bass drum depth theory.
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  #112  
Old 01-22-2019, 12:57 AM
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For sound you like 14" depth bas drums? Thats tough to swallow. Its funny to me that so many shallow bass drum enthusiasts have the opposite opinion for floor toms. The bass drum should be no more than 14" deep but a floor tom should be 14x14 or 16x16. I disagree whole heartedly. My 16x14 floor and 24x18 kick are face melters. Sticking to your guns only works for so long. Eventually you find yourself armed with a muzzle loader in a world of superior weaponry. I say give up the ghost already.
Some of us are more concerned with pedal response concerning kick depth. I've had 14, 16, 18, and 22" depth kicks at different points. Playing death metal and running my feet most of the time, the shallower depths provide a better pedal response than the deeper ones. Sometimes things other than sound play a factor to the player. It all depends on what you are trying to achieve. There is a reason you can hunt deer with a muzzleloader and not an AR-15. Don't blame the tool.
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  #113  
Old 01-22-2019, 04:53 AM
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If you go on eBay and search Sabian AAX thin crash or medium crash you can see photos of the new models. The logo has been moved over to the side like HHX. Some of those models seem new as well, with raw bells and redesigned hammering. I hope they're not getting rid of the X-Plosion crashes and ride and the Stadium ride, among others.
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  #114  
Old 01-22-2019, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by LikeToPlay View Post
For sound you like 14" depth bas drums? Thats tough to swallow. Its funny to me that so many shallow bass drum enthusiasts have the opposite opinion for floor toms. The bass drum should be no more than 14" deep but a floor tom should be 14x14 or 16x16. I disagree whole heartedly. My 16x14 floor and 24x18 kick are face melters. Sticking to your guns only works for so long. Eventually you find yourself armed with a muzzle loader in a world of superior weaponry. I say give up the ghost already.
Why is that so tough to swallow? There are alot of players who grew up with the 14" deep bass drums and regular 16x16 floor toms. And over time, we just learned how to make those sound great. And it's not like you're arming for war - we're playing music. If the gear works, it works. And a really good player will make whatever gear he has, work.

Part of my reasoning to stick with the traditional sizes is that I've only invested in ONE set of cases over the last forty years of playing too. Can you imagine setting aside money for cases for every different drumset you ever bought? That's alot of $$$ just for cases. So the sound has always worked for me, and although I've tried different sizes, I always return to the basics to work. There are alot of places I play in that a 24x18 is just impractical, regardless of it's face-melting capabilities, so a 14x22 is fine. If I'm not loud enough, then I mic up - and actually miking up is becoming more and more important these days - so I can get by with a 12/14/20 kit and still get a huge sound. I've had 26" and 28" bass drums too, and as much fun as those are, they're really unnecessary for most of the music I get called to play. Shallow is good. That usually means there's less space between me and the band I'm playing with too.
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  #115  
Old 01-22-2019, 12:42 PM
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For sound you like 14" depth bas drums? Thats tough to swallow. Its funny to me that so many shallow bass drum enthusiasts have the opposite opinion for floor toms. The bass drum should be no more than 14" deep but a floor tom should be 14x14 or 16x16. I disagree whole heartedly. My 16x14 floor and 24x18 kick are face melters. Sticking to your guns only works for so long. Eventually you find yourself armed with a muzzle loader in a world of superior weaponry. I say give up the ghost already.
I play a 22X14, 12X8, 14X12, and 16X14. To me, those are the perfect sizes. I'm not a fan- at all - of deeper bass drums. Just my $.02.
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Old 01-22-2019, 01:22 PM
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BertTheDrummer BertTheDrummer is offline
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

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Originally Posted by LikeToPlay View Post
For sound you like 14" depth bas drums? Thats tough to swallow. Its funny to me that so many shallow bass drum enthusiasts have the opposite opinion for floor toms. The bass drum should be no more than 14" deep but a floor tom should be 14x14 or 16x16. I disagree whole heartedly. My 16x14 floor and 24x18 kick are face melters. Sticking to your guns only works for so long. Eventually you find yourself armed with a muzzle loader in a world of superior weaponry. I say give up the ghost already.
Short answer, yes for sound I like 14" depth Bass drums. It started partly because I got tired of fitting a deeper bass drum on cramped stages and having no room to move around. After a while I found I preferred the sound I was getting out of it. I didn't have to muffle the junk out of it or anything like that, positioning was easier and more comfortable, it sounded better TO ME, and it was easier to transport. I also got compliments about the bass sound for a number of sound guys, so it was all good.

Second, I don't play a 16x16, I actually play a 16x15... but anyway. I don't think people who prefer 14" deep bass necessarily prefer a 16x16, it is just that is what they usually come with unless you are custom ordering.

Also, I'm not out there saying everyone needs to use a 14" bass drum... it isn't for everyone. I'm not out there proselytizing the use of 14" bass drums. If you want to go 18" that's fine, if you want to go 10" that's fine, if you want a 26x22" have fun.

To use a weaponry analogy is just foolish, music is not war. I'm not bringing a knife to a gun fight or anything like that. If I want to collect knives and swords instead of guns or flint lock pistols instead of AR15s, I can do that. If advances in musical technology was everything, then vintage drums would be dirt cheap and everyone would be playing electro kits.

Drums are tools, musical tools. We all find what tools works best for us. I'm not playing Six Flags anymore, and even if I was I'd probably rock the 14" depth bass drum now days.
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Old 01-22-2019, 01:34 PM
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Eventually you find yourself armed with a muzzle loader in a world of superior weaponry.
Deeper drums do not produce more low end, they produce more overtones. Some overtones are low, some are not. As soon as you mic up = all bets are off.
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Old 01-22-2019, 02:36 PM
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Agreed that current rods do tune just fine. But I'm not a Tune Bot user. If I were a high profile drummer, I might instruct my tech to use one, and to return the kit to the same frequencies each night.

I think the question is: if you're going for a VERY specific sweet spot (i.e. a specific tension at each lug), will more threads make that sweet spot easier to find?

Even when a drum is tuned very well, with a specific pitch in mind, there's still a bit of pitch bend that happens as the drum rings out. So tuning drums to notes -- it's a bit like a game of horseshoes.

Times like these I wish I could sit down Terry Bozzio's drum tech and ask him some of these questions.
I don't have experience with DWs fine pitch threads, but when clearing a drum with standard threads using a Resotune, it often only takes the smallest movement of the tension rod to make it clear.
If you need the drum to be awesome for a recording, it's likely to be a little easier with the DW threads.
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:10 PM
dboomer dboomer is offline
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

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Times like these I wish I could sit down Terry Bozzio's drum tech and ask him some of these questions.
Terry’s drums are DW of course but they all have little locking collars, which he invented and DW used to sell. Suprisingly he doesnt have to tune that kit hardly at all before every show. All the drums also have triggers which are used to generate a sine wave pitch that is added to each drum in the mixer.
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Old 01-22-2019, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: Namm 2019 rumors

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As soon as you mic up = all bets are off.
Yep, mics hear things our ear can't. Ever try to put your head inside the kick while you're playing it?

:O
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